No more B&O sound system?

Hi to all the community,

I have a question for you : nowadays, in the one point wireless speaker, network players and streaming music area, is there an audio brand that offers a music system with a screen to easily choose albums, browse artwork, build playlists,...?

I mean, if i don't want to use a phone, a tablet, or a computer as a player, and like to replace a BeoSound 5 or Moment, is there an audio brand that offers this?

It's a shame that the BeoSound 5 and Moment computer-based platforms have been abandoned.

I know the Nativ Vita player (with the Roon UI) but don't know if it's still available and future proof.

What's your opinion?

Steph:

What's your opinion?

I had a chat with my dealer about what's coming and they seem to have very little clue and they normally know 6 months in advance so they can plan for a launch. He simply said that they expect another pair of headphones and potentially a Stage rev.2 as it's really hard for dealers to get hold of the Stage at the moment.

No mention of a music player and I can't see anything like that coming out short term. You need sorts to demonstrate that kind of hardware, whereas smaller products such as headphones sell easily online and are generally well received.

Hi Steph

You wrote:

”a screen to easily choose albums, browse artwork, build playlists,...?’

Since all of that is what you want to be able to do...

What is wrong with having an ‘external’ screen for that purpose?

Just dedicate an iPad or any (Android) Tablet to that task, and you are good to go.

There are a lot of ‘music systems’ nowadays that work this way - in fact they all do.....so also a B&O music system like the Beosound Core.

Lots of options to choose from - starting with some DIY-Raspberry Pi stuff over Naim streamers, Bluesound, Linn, Roon Nucleus and to extreme expensive systems. If you like the Vita Nativ Player, why not go for that

(N.B. Nothing is ‘futureproof nowadays - a computer maybe, but that is not everymans choice imo).

You WILL need a screen of some kind for your desired tasks - just skip thought that you would need your/a mobile phone for this.

 

MM

Thanks Moxxey and MM,

You're right, it's the cruel truth!

Maybe a dedicated iPad would be fine with a Beosound Edge (anthracite ), but i'm not really satisfied...

Thanks anyway...

Indeed - could they make a beautiful standalone fully featured music controller?

Yes, of course

But will they?

No

And the Halo surely isn't it

If we count out the Beoport etc, they tried twice (BS5/Moment), but reality overtook them.

This forum is full of lamentation and anger about how these two ‘fully featured music controllers’ failed.

@Sandyb

What is it, that you want them to do, produce, sell and maintain the sw of for years to come.

What is a ‘beautiful standalone fully featured music controller’?

And if you can come up with a definition, do you think that e.g. the members of this forum would ever agree on that.....not talking about the typical B&O costumers?

MM

Millemissen:

If we count out the Beoport etc, they tried twice (BS5/Moment), but reality overtook them.

This forum is full of lamentation and anger about how these two ‘fully featured music controllers’ failed.

@Sandyb

What is it, that you want them to do, produce, sell and maintain the sw of for years to come.

What is a ‘beautiful standalone fully featured music controller’?

And if you can come up with a definition, do you think that e.g. the members of this forum would ever agree on that.....not talking about the typical B&O costumers?

MM

The blunt truth is neither were really very good and failed to attract the attention of anyone other than real beo-fans. Put that together with sw issues and their fate was sealed.

That still doesn't mean there isn't a roll for a "always on, pick up and go" system controller - yes you can do it with a phone or tablet but they aren't ideal either as they carry too much overhead and baggage that you have no control over.

The real trouble is how many people these days really, really want one!

Millemissen:

If we count out the Beoport etc, they tried twice (BS5/Moment), but reality overtook them.

This forum is full of lamentation and anger about how these two ‘fully featured music controllers’ failed.

@Sandyb

What is it, that you want them to do, produce, sell and maintain the sw of for years to come.

What is a ‘beautifu l standalone fully featured music controller ’?

And if you can come up with a definition, do you think that e.g. the members of this forum would ever agree on that.....not talking about the typical B&O costumers?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

As i said, i dont expect them to make anything approaching what i mentioned.

The Halo offered something physical, lovely looking and able to control music.

But it controls music to an extremely limited extent.

They can surely apply their design skills to something physical, with enough screen real estate to offer some proper browsing (which the Halo doesn’t), a physical volume, a strong graphical UI that enhances the experience (which the Halos screen UI doesnt).

They have released plenty of products, good and bad, that forums members dont agree on - that hasn’t been a minimum standard or bar to clear in the past, so it shouldn’t be in the future.

But there was a general consensus that the Halo was too limited - their ambition extended only to making an experience starter with a volume wheel. The intention from the outset should have been to provide proper browsing, a screen that adds to the pleasure / experience when looking at it / using it, and support a range of music content / services.

There are very good music UI’s out there (be it Roon or otherwise) - combine that with B&O physical design.

But they wont do it - either due to lack of ambition or lack of ability.

Just for the record - I don’t count the Halo to the ‘standalone fully featured music controllers’.

That is - as you rightly say -  ‘an experience starter with a volume wheel.’ and probably will never be much more, even if it will be a lot more complex over time.

As for: all the ‘very good music UI’s out there’, they are all based on a touch interface, basicly on a rather big tablet.

How would you add ‘B&O physical design’ to that - a volume wheel with skip buttons, a join button, 4 MyButtons, maybe........oh, wait then we are back to the ‘what happens with this expensive piece of kit, when the screen fails’-issue. 

Maybe I am just too ignorant or have too little fantasy - but I really can’t imagine what should be done to add ‘the B&O physical design’ to a regular touch interface UI.

Apart from that - I am pretty sure, that the majority of the B&O costumers are totally satisfied with ‘an experience starter’ of some kind.....they have demontrated that concept with the Essence Remote.

So, the moral of my story is, that I - just like you - don’t expect them to make anything ‘fully featured music system’.

MM

Sandyb:

And the Halo surely isn't it

I've not even charged it up since the last time it ran out of battery (again), then came to terms with that. Was chatting to my dealer and realised it was...£700. For a remote, which lasts about 5 days.

Then I became a little disappointed with myself for buying it, which doesn't happen often.

On a more positive note, I've ordered the gold/marble Balance! Arrives tomorrow.

What about the Beo6 remote? It shows artist, title, album and cover art, and you can browse through albums and artists. But I believe it’s limited to BS5/BM5. This remote had endless possibilities...

Griebel:

What about the Beo6 remote? It shows artist, title, album and cover art, and you can browse through albums and artists. But I believe it’s limited to BS5/BM5. This remote had endless possibilities...

Sure....in it’s time.

That was a controller mainly based on DLNA, when it comes to playing music i.e. from the harddrive of the BM5.

Most people got into the BS5 after it became the Spotify addition - for this the Beo6 was useless (apart from on a very basic level (skipping tracks). 

And after the Spotify support of the BS5 ended, people lost their love in that system.

The Beo6 is a remote - not a music system.

And even if the support for Spotify had continued, imagine searching for artists, albums, tracks on that tiny display ;-(

 

MM

Would be nice when the Moment got a softwareupdate.

It has the option in loudspeakerconfiguration to "use tv loudspeakers". I've used that with the NL/ML convertor to drive the BV9 with its speakers.
Despite the fact that all NL devices are found in the list of NL devices in the menu, you won't find them (BV V1 for instance I have)  as possible option to choose as output for the Moment.

I find the Moment nicer and easier to handle DNLA content and other music sources than the B&O app. And I still can't part with the Moment as it is the latest Beosound.

Beobuddy:

Would be nice when the Moment got a softwareupdate.

It has the option in loudspeakerconfiguration to "use tv loudspeakers". I've used that with the NL/ML convertor to drive the BV9 with its speakers. Despite the fact that all NL devices are found in the list of NL devices in the menu, you won't find them (BV V1 for instance I have) as possible option to choose as output for the Moment.

I find the Moment nicer and easier to handle DNLA content and other music sources than the B&O app. And I still can't part with the Moment as it is the latest Beosound.

You can connect the Moment to the V1 and use the TV + speakers as standard with the Moment.

Make sure you have also selected the Moment as one of the two connected devices in the setup menu of the V1. Then it pops up under tv’s in the setup menu in the Moment

The moment was a train wreak. B&O is no good with modern software. I would simply use a dedicated iPad and the phone that's in everyone's pockets all the time.

Thanks for the tip. I've tried this and it works. Thank you.

Will it also work with the Eclipse and Harmony?

moxxey:

I've not even charged it up since the last time it ran out of battery (again), then came to terms with that. Was chatting to my dealer and realised it was...£700. For a remote, which lasts about 5 days.

Then I became a little disappointed with myself for buying it, which doesn't happen often.

On a more positive note, I've ordered the gold/marble Balance! Arrives tomorrow.

Make sure you charge it before getting any visitors after COVID-19 so you can make them unimpressed

Beobuddy:

Thanks for the tip. I've tried this and it works. Thank you.

Will it also work with the Eclipse and Harmony?

No, you can not integrate that (or any of the other NL/Beosound devices) with the Eclipse/Harmony.

MM

Beobuddy:

Thanks for the tip. I've tried this and it works. Thank you.

Will it also work with the Eclipse and Harmony?

No. 

If you are looking for a sound system, I can highly recommend Roon Software. Additionally a Roon Nucleus if you are looking for an "out of the box" solution.
The user interface of Roon is just awesome. It connects your local media with Hi-Res Audio streaming from Tidal and / or Qobuz. Additionally, multiroom is offered via Airplay, Chromecast, Sonos, LMS or Roon.
If you are looking for an impressive touch control (not comparable to Nativ Vita Player), you should watch the YouTube video https://youtu.be/dva4LOr7Fnk
Another advantage for me was that thanks to Roon I managed to break away from my 100% B&O eco-system. The first were my kids who thought Sonos was much cooler than B&O. No I have a mixed set-up of different brands managed by Roon.

Exactly what I have done!

Nucleus as my Core (server), hidden away, and an iPad as the control point. Roon was the (way to go.

While my perfect world scenario (a B&O designed control point) is not happening, at least Roon provides a pleasurable experience when picking up an iPad. 

Its pretty nice to be able to use Roon to operate my A9 and BS2, and my BL50s / Linn combination (hell, even the Linn streamer unit has 6 physical my buttons, able to start playlists, albums, radio stations)

Pretty flexible, and of course the Roon UI is fabulous.

Audio:

If you are looking for a sound system, I can highly recommend Roon Software. Additionally a Roon Nucleus if you are looking for an "out of the box" solution.
The user interface of Roon is just awesome. It connects your local media with Hi-Res Audio streaming from Tidal and / or Qobuz. Additionally, multiroom is offered via Airplay, Chromecast, Sonos, LMS or Roon.
If you are looking for an impressive touch control (not comparable to Nativ Vita Player), you should watch the YouTube video https://youtu.be/dva4LOr7Fnk
Another advantage for me was that thanks to Roon I managed to break away from my 100% B&O eco-system. The first were my kids who thought Sonos was much cooler than B&O. No I have a mixed set-up of different brands managed by Roon.

 

Audio:

If you are looking for an impressive touch control (not comparable to Nativ Vita Player), you should watch the YouTube video https://youtu.be/dva4LOr7Fnk

The problem with this is it just looks like crap.

 

Two things brought me into B&O: Aesthetics of the devices, and the beautiful user interfaces.  Roon does seem to have a beautiful UI, but my Moment is far more beautiful than any of the Roon endpoints/controllers, and my Essence remotes have a simplicity and usability that's not matched by any other device.

 

B&O should have acquired Roon (maybe they tried!) but that didn't happen and I'm stuck with the choice of gorgeous equipment with mediocre software or mediocre equipment with better software.  For now I'm sticking with B&O, for better or for worse.

laseralex:

The problem with this is it just looks like crap.

Two things brought me into B&O: Aesthetics of the devices, and the beautiful user interfaces. Roon does seem to have a beautiful UI, but my Moment is far more beautiful than any of the Roon endpoints/controllers, and my Essence remotes have a simplicity and usability that's not matched by any other device.

B&O should have acquired Roon (maybe they tried!) but that didn't happen and I'm stuck with the choice of gorgeous equipment with mediocre software or mediocre equipment with better software. For now I'm sticking with B&O, for better or for worse.

Sources: 2x Beosound Moment • 4x Beosound Essence Mk II Speakers: 3x Beolab 8000 • 1x Beolab 6000 • 1x Beolab 3 • 3x Beolab 2 • 4x BeoPlay M5 • 1x BeoPlay A6 Control: 9x Essence Remote • 1x Beoremote Halo

Indeed - and it would be one thing if B&O had said to customers “just use this streaming app of your choice to control our speakers”. (Be that Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal etc etc). But while they continue to make their own app, and a new music controller, they are not saying the above, and should be judged on the software they make.

Other brands make much better software, even BluOS is incomparably better, offering a range of connectivity and streaming services. And dont even start with the Halo, which is so staggeringly limited that its almost laughable.

If the present / future is just “use a tablet / phone”, fine, I can accept not having a physical B&O controller.

But then make the app ‘ software much better.

laseralex:

The problem with this is it just looks like crap.

That it a question of taste, use case and touch screen your are purchasing. But at least it seems to work, something you do not experience always with B&O software / firmware. I personally use iPads to control Room. 

I stream via Airplay from my Roon Core to my B&O loudspeakers (Beoplay A9, Beosound Core, Beosound 35). I know Airplay is not a hi-res solution, but using B&O Netlink NL the streaming quality is not higher. 

laseralex:

my Essence remotes have a simplicity and usability that's not matched by any other device

My Essence remote connected to the Beosound Core works perfectly together with Roon via Airplay. I can change the volume +/-, stop, play and change tracks within Roon. As far as I know there are no more functions B&O is offering within there own eco-system. 

laseralex:

I'm stuck with ... mediocre software

That is the huge problem of B&O and it seems not to get better (: 

laseralex:

B&O should have acquired Roon (maybe they tried!)

Why should B&O acquire Roon? To turn good software into bad?
It would be sufficient to integrate Roon and offer Roon Ready B&O devices like so many other high quality audio manufacturers. And it should be much cheaper for B&O, too. Instead B&O decided to wast money and resources to development their own bugy and user-unfriendly software.

 

Audio:

Why should B&O acquire Roon? To turn good software into bad?

The World’s Oldest Joke™️: Marilyn Monroe is introduced to Albert Einstein.

MM: “Professor, we should get married. With your brains and my looks our children could rule the world.”

AE: “Yes, but what if it turned out the other way?”