ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Howzit: IAlso, Atmos with only 8 channels??
IAlso, Atmos with only 8 channels??
8 channels - that is perfect for a wireless soundbar with two upfiring channels and the extra subwoofer.
Mainstream-Atmos....imo. - finally a simple solution that brings cash into the pockets of the A/V industry.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Chris Townsend:If their future is one of no TVs, then what precisely is their USP? They’ll kind of engineer their way out of business. I buy a Beovision, then buy Beolabs to go with it. I then buy Beoplay as it integrates well with everything else. Take away the Beovision and they’ll end up just another speaker manufacturer amongst many. Beovision Eclipse, Beolit 15, Beoplay A2, H6/H2, Form 2, Beoplay A3, Beovision 5-42 connected to a DVD1
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Millemissen:8 channels - that is perfect for a wireless soundbar with two upfiring channels and the extra subwoofer. Mainstream-Atmos....imo. - finally a simple solution that brings cash into the pockets of the A/V industry. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
You could also go for less.
Will be interesting to see the posibilies of the actual (surround) SW built in to the LG’s.
Some B&O users/BeoLab owners might set up only two external speakers......that should not be a big problem.
But if you are someone, who has realised how important a center channel is (with video), and how important it is to set this up correct, the trouble might begin.
And adding a subwoofer - is there some bas management built in?
CEC is soon, we’ll see.
LG gives first look at upcoming 2019 flagship TVs with built-in WiSA Hi-Fi wireless audio support -
Click here.
Instead of reading what some journalist has quickly written, one might read this from those in knowing:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20181211005384/en/Summit-Wireless-Announces-Global-Collaboration-LG-Electronics
‘....flagship UHD LCD TVs WiSA Ready™ and compatible with WiSA USB Transmitters’
Peter Pan:LG gives first look at upcoming 2019 flagship TVs with built-in WiSA Hi-Fi wireless audio support - Click here .
Aussie Michael: Peter Pan: LG gives first look at upcoming 2019 flagship TVs with built-in WiSA Hi-Fi wireless audio support - Click here . Thanks for the link. I liked the way the author of the article gave mention to “the audio protocol you’ve never heard of another chance for success” Can’t wait to see more WiSA products in the future
Peter Pan: LG gives first look at upcoming 2019 flagship TVs with built-in WiSA Hi-Fi wireless audio support - Click here .
Click here .
Thanks for the link. I liked the way the author of the article gave mention to “the audio protocol you’ve never heard of another chance for success”
Can’t wait to see more WiSA products in the future
I suspect that LGs adoption of WISA will do a lot more to push it into the public eye and make it successful than B&O ever could have.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff:I suspect that LGs adoption of WISA will do a lot more to push it into the public eye and make it successful than B&O ever could have. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
It's a nice idea and maybe ideal for some, but the difference between wired and wisa bl50/90's is, to me, instantly noticeable. If B&O won't do a soundbar for wired connection they'll at the very minimum have to make a decent center speaker for this setup or be willing to sell bl17's as singles for the time being. Seems like LG is beating B&O at it's own game lately.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
History - Click here.
Exciting what it will end with.
Interesting how the industry and especially Dolby Laboratories has managed to convince people to buy their technology as something special.for the home.
It is as if a soundbar and a sub (wired or wirelees) in a 5.1.2 combination could deliever the same amazing sound experience as a cinema Atmos setup or even as a fullblown Atmos/Home setup..
I am still to hear an Atmos soundbar that comes near what you may experience from a decent (B&O) 5.1/7.1 traditional multi channel setup.
If people - for convenience - want or need a soundbar, it is okay (even more than that).
But believing that it is so much better just because of an Atmos certification (that really shuffles money in the Dolby organisation) is a fallacy.
@ Millemissen
The biggest mistake is that Bang & Olufsen has abandoned television production. It allows room for other comparable products. That's the way it is.
___________________________________There is a tv - and there is a BV. from LG.
Dolby Atmos is an audio feature, not a video feature - you don’t nescessarily need a B&O tv for that.
When nothing really happened after 2017, it may be because LG found out of somsing happened. HDMI 2.1 eARC technology in 2019/2020 provides new possibilities, such as eARC technology make sure it all can talk together via the RX Sil9437 chip on the player page, and the TX Sil9438 chip on the TV. With they found eARC will transmit the full bandwidth for 8 channels with 24-bit in uncompressed 192 khz audio, or control lip sync, and more. But If not willgo back in regular ARC transmission.
So that there is finally the opportunity to provide a much better sound experience, to us with an interest in good sound. Then we can think what we want about Dolby Atmos sound. A few years ago, 3D sold the products.
9
Millemissen: Interesting how the industry and especially Dolby Laboratories has managed to convince people to buy their technology as something special.for the home. It is as if a soundbar and a sub (wired or wirelees) in a 5.1.2 combination could deliever the same amazing sound experience as a cinema Atmos setup or even as a fullblown Atmos/Home setup.. I am still to hear an Atmos soundbar that comes near what you may experience from a decent (B&O) 5.1/7.1 traditional multi channel setup. If people - for convenience - want or need a soundbar, it is okay (even more than that). But believing that it is so much better just because of an Atmos certification (that really shuffles money in the Dolby organisation) is a fallacy. MM
Elsewhere on this board others, maybe even yourself, try to make exactly the opposite case telling us why the edge is a great and worthy speaker and that not everyone needs or appreciates true stereo pairs with real separation.
It is exactly the same here - Not everyone wants 7 speakers and 2 subs in their living room - in fact, in a living room it is faintly ridiculous and is more suited to those with dedicated cinema rooms.
As always it's horses for courses. I think wisa in the LG might not make a huge difference because of the above. Far better a decent soundbar for the masses where in fact wisa doesnt help or contribute anything.
Ban boring signatures!
Download Click here.
The above speakers are passive. If B & O comes with active alternatives, time must show.
Peter Pan: Download Click here. The above speakers are passive. If B & O comes with active alternatives, time must show.
If people don't want multiple speakers in their living room then making them wireless is only a small and possibly irrelevant inducement however making them look monstrous is certainly a deal breaker!
Puncher: Elsewhere on this board others, maybe even yourself, try to make exactly the opposite case telling us why the edge is a great and worthy speaker and that not everyone needs or appreciates true stereo pairs with real separation. It is exactly the same here - Not everyone wants 7 speakers and 2 subs in their living room - in fact, in a living room it is faintly ridiculous and is more suited to those with dedicated cinema rooms. As always it's horses for courses. I think wisa in the LG might not make a huge difference because of the above. Far better a decent soundbar for the masses where in fact wisa doesnt help or contribute anything.
Dolby Atmos is a proprietary way of achieving a spacial effect with sound.
Dolby has managed to influence everyone from the content makers and the distributors to the hardware makers and the costumers.
Hardly anyone speaks of DTS:X or Auro-3D.....
The Dolby guys are clever!
What the Edge (in True360 omnidirectional mode) does, is another way of creating a spacial sound effect, a room filling effect.
It can be used in some cases - in fact in many cases, where a ‘money seated’ listening position is not possible or wished for.
It can be a convienient way of listening to music....in rooms where you move around a lot.
2 channel/aka stereo is the classical way of creating a spacial effect with music.
The drawback is that you must sit in the right position and the room will a big role in order to achieve this effect.
In my opinion Dolby Atmos from a 5.1.2 soundbar is marketing bloat.....they are trying to tell people, that they will get a real Atmos experience.
A soundbar is one good way of improving the sound experience from a modern tv - especially those based on a 3.0/3.1 principle.
I am sure sound from a soundbar can be improved in many, different ways - think of the Yamaha YSP soundbars, the AMBEO 3D technology/Sennheiser or the Yarra 3D (which did not reach production) and more/more to come........all using some kind of DSP processing.
And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!
Millemissen: Puncher: Elsewhere on this board others, maybe even yourself, try to make exactly the opposite case telling us why the edge is a great and worthy speaker and that not everyone needs or appreciates true stereo pairs with real separation. It is exactly the same here - Not everyone wants 7 speakers and 2 subs in their living room - in fact, in a living room it is faintly ridiculous and is more suited to those with dedicated cinema rooms. As always it's horses for courses. I think wisa in the LG might not make a huge difference because of the above. Far better a decent soundbar for the masses where in fact wisa doesnt help or contribute anything. Dolby Atmos is a proprietary way of achieving a spacial effect with sound. Dolby has managed to influence everyone from the content makers and the distributors to the hardware makers and the costumers. Hardly anyone speaks of DTS:X or Auro-3D..... The Dolby guys are clever! What the Edge (in True360 omnidirectional mode) does, is another way of creating a spacial sound effect, a room filling effect. It can be used in some cases - in fact in many cases, where a ‘money seated’ listening position is not possible or wished for. It can be a convienient way of listening to music....in rooms where you move around a lot. 2 channel/aka stereo is the classical way of creating a spacial effect with music. The drawback is that you must sit in the right position and the room will a big role in order to achieve this effect. In my opinion Dolby Atmos from a 5.1.2 soundbar is marketing bloat.....they are trying to tell people, that they will get a real Atmos experience. A soundbar is one good way of improving the sound experience from a modern tv - especially those based on a 3.0/3.1 principle. I am sure sound from a soundbar can be improved in many, different ways - think of the Yamaha YSP soundbars, the AMBEO 3D technology/Sennheiser or the Yarra 3D (which did not reach production) and more/more to come........all using some kind of DSP processing. And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!
None of which alters the point I make!
Using WISA to connect to a soundbar 2 inches below the TV is somewhat of a waste of money!
MM said, "And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!".
1. Edge tech is impressive, just like Dolby's and sound bars. Edge performance will be influenced by placement and environment just like EVERY audio product ever made. And NO, I don't own one but I don't believe in fairies, either.
2. Dolby making money off licensing their tech is no worse or better than B&O automotive, or any other for that matter. I am jealous.
3. The real problem with LG and Dolby and how they use audio tech is that B&O is not the dance partner, Meridian is. I hope B&O will take advantage of WISA and LG TV. It's never too late to be friends.
Puncher = real talk.
Puncher: None of which alters the point I make! Using WISA to connect to a soundbar 2 inches below the TV is somewhat of a waste of money!
My postvwas not meant to alter anything there - just a comment, inspired by your post.
Well, one thing - we don’t agree on the benefit of wireless with a soundbar.
The less cables, the happier the buyers - with 8 channels that could be 8 cables less.
And soundbars are not always ‘2 inches below’ the tv.
@poodleboy
1: Well, the BL 50/90 are an example of trying to make a loudspeaker less influenced by placement and environment.
2: No of course not - but B&O is trying to give us the impression that their automotive technology is the one and only.
3: I don’t understand - could someone elaborate, please.
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Millemissen: Puncher: None of which alters the point I make! Using WISA to connect to a soundbar 2 inches below the TV is somewhat of a waste of money! My postvwas not meant to alter anything there - just a comment, inspired by your post. Well, one thing - we don’t agree on the benefit of wireless with a soundbar. The less cables, the happier the buyers - with 8 channels that could be 8 cables less. And soundbars are not always ‘2 inches below’ the tv. MM
My expectation is that 99% of sound bar customers will have zero external speakers, let alone 8.
I think a mains out connection from the tv itself is probably more useful to a sound bar customers than wisa.
Puncher: My expectation is that 99% of sound bar customers will have zero external speakers, let alone 8. I think a mains out connection from the tv itself is probably more useful to a sound bar customers than wisa.
I think that also fits 99 percent of TV owners. I've had a full on surround system, starting with Dolby Pro Logic way back in the late 80's, so long ago I can't remember exactly when I bit the bullet. In that time, out of all the people who's homes I've been in, the number of people who had even a rudimentary setup using rear speakers is...exactly three. An audio engineer friend, a fellow audio nerd, and me. Would WISA encourage more people to go for a proper setup? Maybe, but I doubt it, anyone who likes cinema at home and surround sound enough would probably figure out how to do it with wires, though it might tempt such a person to your TV brand because it makes it a bit easier.
I think, just like we have to face the fact that the number of people willing to do a proper two channel stereo setup is smaller than we think, the number for a proper surround setup is far lower.
Well if I buy the future (assumed, and expensive) B&O soundbar it would be exactly and only because I don‘t plan to buy other speakers... to keep my living room „clean“ but with best reasonably possible sound for TV and casual audio listening.
So, no I don‘ go for Dolby setup as it is it is too many wires in my view for a living room. Different story, of course, for a dedicated cinema room.
Millemissen: @poodleboy 1: Well, the BL 50/90 are an example of trying to make a loudspeaker less influenced by placement and environment. 2: No of course not - but B&O is trying to give us the impression that their automotive technology is the one and only. 3: I don’t understand - could someone elaborate, please. MM
RE 3: "The real problem with LG and Dolby and how they use audio tech is that B&O is not the dance partner, Meridian is. I hope B&O will take advantage of WISA and LG TV. It's never too late to be friends."
Dolby is built-in LG TVs. Meridian is the LG audio partner for TV and Mobile and they helped the tech on the £1000 sound bar. LG sound bars include the ability to add wireless satellite speakers to support more authentic surround. WISA in an integrated LG A/V system opens up opportunities for themselves, Meridian, and others.
Meridian, Linn, B&W, and other UK companies might not be B&O, but they sure are not fools. I think B&O could have/should have been the LG audio partner.
Sorry, I thought that the "dots" connected quite easy, but I think there is less to your comment than that. Guilty of thinking aloud (with a keyboard).
Still my dream. Only BeoLab 18 must have WiSA wireless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv6hCSGv7T0
Sure, that is possible - with a modern HDMI/ARC solution.
But that would mean that the decoding (of he Dolby Atmos stream) would have to take place in the soundbar.
However, the new thing about the coming LG tv’s is, that they can do the decoding (up to 8 channels) internally and output these......
....but only wireless (using WiSA).
That is the whole point of the WiSA Ready specs of these tv’s.
A direct cabled solution will not be possible, if you want to benefit from Dolby Atmos there.
You won’t have the opportunity to use cabled speakers or a mix of cabled and wireless there.
Neither to a 7.1.2 soundbar nor to seperate, external (B&O or maybe LG) active speakers in a 7.1.2 configuration.
NB. for a Dolby Atmos soundbar (including a sub) you will always need the 8 possible connections, when used with these coming LG tv’s.
You can do with less - but that won’t give you any Atmos.
Peter Pan: Still my dream. Only BeoLab 18 must have WiSA wireless.
And that will stay a dream, if you plan to use the coming LG tv.
Millemissen: Puncher: My expectation is that 99% of sound bar customers will have zero external speakers, let alone 8. I think a mains out connection from the tv itself is probably more useful to a sound bar customers than wisa. Sure, that is possible - with a modern HDMI/ARC solution. But that would mean that the decoding (of he Dolby Atmos stream) would have to take place in the soundbar. However, the new thing about the coming LG tv’s is, that they can do the decoding (up to 8 channels) internally and output these...... ....but only wireless (using WiSA). That is the whole point of the WiSA Ready specs of these tv’s. A direct cabled solution will not be possible, if you want to benefit from Dolby Atmos there. You won’t have the opportunity to use cabled speakers or a mix of cabled and wireless there. Neither to a 7.1.2 soundbar nor to seperate, external (B&O or maybe LG) active speakers in a 7.1.2 configuration. NB. for a Dolby Atmos soundbar (including a sub) you will always need the 8 possible connections, when used with these coming LG tv’s. You can do with less - but that won’t give you any Atmos. MM
As you wish, I've lost interest. You must have a PhD in Attrition! I can only think that you must have emptied hundreds of bars in your time.
I will agree the bang and Olufsen is the better TV but the software problems still peeaist and they are no longer going to produce TV's after 2020, it make hard to justify spending that amount of money for me they are discontinuig the parts of the older equipment so quickly now
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Millemissen:......And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!.....
Beolab 9 | Beolab 8000 | Beolab 6000 | Beolab 2 | Beolab 3 | Beosound 9000 | Beoplay A9 | Beomaster 8000 | Beovox M75, / S75, / S45.2
Howzit: Millemissen: ......And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!..... Yes, other than power wires... they are wireless, of course. (Reminds me of all buzz about cutting the cord (digital cable) and going for Streaming services. Indeed, cutting the cord, other than the coaxial cord you literally need to bring the internet to the modem, the same coaxial cord that was always there for cable tv. Then paying more, for each subsequent streaming service, on top of an internet service provider) I agree with you, this is the age of marketing and spin. Still interesting to me though; is that if the main vehicle for this Atmos is a soundbar under the tv, why would one need the convenience of wireless (wireless other than power wires that is)? Wouldn’t one just be able to use a very short wire from the tv just above it? Tucked along with the power wire the wireless speaker needs anyway?
Millemissen: ......And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!.....
......And WiSA can be a convenient way of connecting a soundbar to a tv - no cables apart from the powercord.....no more no less!.....
Yes, other than power wires... they are wireless, of course.
(Reminds me of all buzz about cutting the cord (digital cable) and going for Streaming services. Indeed, cutting the cord, other than the coaxial cord you literally need to bring the internet to the modem, the same coaxial cord that was always there for cable tv. Then paying more, for each subsequent streaming service, on top of an internet service provider)
I agree with you, this is the age of marketing and spin.
Still interesting to me though; is that if the main vehicle for this Atmos is a soundbar under the tv, why would one need the convenience of wireless (wireless other than power wires that is)?
Wouldn’t one just be able to use a very short wire from the tv just above it? Tucked along with the power wire the wireless speaker needs anyway?
Good Luck!
Howzit:. Still interesting to me though; is that if the main vehicle for this Atmos is a soundbar under the tv, why would one need the convenience of wireless (wireless other than power wires that is)? Wouldn’t one just be able to use a very short wire from the tv just above it? Tucked along with the power wire the wireless speaker needs anyway?
That is exactly the point.
The processing of the (Atmos) sound takes place in the tv (because the LG tv’s can do that).
The soundbar is merely a combination of speakers (and some DSP stuff) in that case.
So the soundbar is not the ‘main vehicle for this Atmos’!
Since there is only one way of getting the processed sound signals from the LG tv - which is wireless (using the USB dongle),
You won’t need any cables....in fact you can not use a cable/a wire.
And....one powercord goes to the tv (maybe also a coax cable for rv signals) and another to the soundbar, because the speakers are active speakers.
This principle would be the same, if you had external speakers all around - only difference is that you would need a power cable for each speaker.
Sidenote: on an LG tv (this is similar on all other non-B&O tv) you can use one wire - either an SPDIF-out or a HDMI/RC for connecting to a soundbar.
SPDIF however would not allow for carrying the Atmos stream. HDMI/ARC could - but then the processing should take place in the soundbar.
And the whole point of having an LG tv with WiSA based wireless Dolby Atmos audio is to avoid this!
Becomes LG Innotek concept a Wireless transmitter featuring USB 3.1 C SuperSpeed plus interface. So the theoretical speed limit doubles from 5 to 10 Gbps, corresponding to 1,250 MB / s.
MM:
"Sidenote: on an LG tv (this is similar on all other non-B&O tv) you can use one wire - either an SPDIF-out or a HDMI/RC for connecting to a soundbar.
Processing COULD take place in sound bar, but doesn't have to, does it? If you connect LG TV to LG sound bar, no reason they could not configure the TV (with Atmos built-in) to see the sound bar (also with Atmos built-in) as static and use WISA for satellites. B&O does this today, doesn't it? You could put a CAT6 connector for speaker between them, correct?
And the whole point of having an LG tv with WiSA based wireless Dolby Atmos audio is to avoid this!"
I would say it is an alternative and not the sole reason. It gives you options, B&O and other WISA included. It is a high resolution alternative than the current bluetooth for satellite speakers on the LG soundbar. Maybe LG won't make WISA "respectable" in many people's eyes but it might make it popular. If the rumour B&O soundbar comes to fruition I hope it will do the audio processing and pass-through video via HDMI to the TV. Otherwise I fear processor sync issues.
Peter Pan:When nothing happened with LG Innotek concept after 2017. It may be because LG found out of somsing happened. HDMI 2.1 eARC technology provides new possibilities, such as eARC technology make sure it all can talk together via the RX Sil9437 chip on the player page, and the TX Sil9438 chip on the TV. With they found eARC will transmit the full bandwidth for 8 channels with 24-bit in uncompressed 192 khz audio, or control lip sync, and more. But If not willgo back in regular ARC transmission.
HDMI 2.1 / eARC is maybe ready in LG C9. - Click here.