ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have grown in audio circles firmly believing that loudness is evil.
Now a lot of people seem happy to use this. I often see it in function when I examine photos here or elsewhere.
We all know this physiological filter is supposed to compensate for hearing defects at very low volume. Perhaps its bad reputation comes from Japanese amps, where the boosts continued at normal listening levels.
For example, Mark (Feb 2010, HFN&RR) uses it, as does Frede from Classic Audio, or Dave Farr on their classic Beolab systems.
I also often see it glow on Beosystems 5000/5500.
Any thoughts?
Jacques
I don't use it on my "full" systems where the speakers actually play some bass. However, on most of the others I do. Rationale: if it sounds better to me, then it sounds better to me. Most of the time I wish the effect was a bit less pronounced, though.
--mika
Most of the time I don't use it - maybe it is because I don't often listen at low volumen
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Have a look at the article, that Geoff Martin wrote a while ago:
http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2014/06/07/bo-tech-what-is-loudness/
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Yes I had come across it. I am only interested in vintage, passive systems though.
tournedos:Rationale: if it sounds better to me, then it sounds better to me.
I have used it on / off since the Sixties on a variety of systems - including B&O for exactly the reason that at low volumes it does provide a boost.
Right now it is "on" for my BV8-40 where it made a subtle difference to IMF chief Christine Lagarde's speech in Cairns this weekend.
BeoNut since '75
chartz: Yes I had come across it. I am only interested in vintage, passive systems though.
Ups. Forgot that - sorry!
elephant: [...] it made a subtle difference to IMF chief Christine Lagarde's speech in Cairns this weekend.
[...] it made a subtle difference to IMF chief Christine Lagarde's speech in Cairns this weekend.
chartz:For example, Mark (Feb 2010, HFN&RR) uses it, as does Frede from Classic Audio, or Dave Farr on their classic Beolab systems
Hi Jacques,
yes, I do use it as you've pointed out. I've just been playing some more Bach via the BG 3000 and it does make a subtle but important difference and improvement to my listening experience. The music has more 'depth'. Without the filter I find the sound a bit 'flat' but with it, it seems 'sharper in detail' and overall sound. Less dull. It's difficult to explain but that's my interpretation. Without the filter it sounds 'distant', but with the filter, 'closer and more rounded' - not just volume.
Of course it's completely subjective. I prefer to use it, others won't. It's a preference and needs to be experimented with by each individual until what they are listening to sounds good to them.
Dave.
Dave Farr: Of course it's completely subjective. I prefer to use it, others won't. It's a preference and needs to be experimented with by each individual until what they are listening to sounds good to them.
'Course!
It was sort of a poll and I wanted to know who does it and why, so your answer is exactly the kind of answer I was expecting.
I use it on my Beocenter 8500 which is connected to a pair of S 75´s, and a pair of S 55´s as the second pair of speakers.
I like a powerfull bass.
best regards
René.
elephant: tournedos:Rationale: if it sounds better to me, then it sounds better to me. I have used it on / off since the Sixties on a variety of systems - including B&O for exactly the reason that at low volumes it does provide a boost. Right now it is "on" for my BV8-40 where it made a subtle difference to IMF chief Christine Lagarde's speech in Cairns this weekend.
You must surely need an orange filter too.
Graham
I agree 100%. And so did Duke Ellington.
Cheers
-geoff
I use it, my ears prefer it!
x:________________________
I use the loudness button on my BM6000 (80's) and BC8500 I prefer the warmth it brings. I listen at low levels mostly and I find that late at night/early hours, when others are sleeping, I can listen to Classic FM at a low ambient level without disturbing anyone upstairs.
I use the loudness function also on both my current Beosystem 6000 '81 and 6500 '91.
At lower volume it works as B&O intended it and without it sounds bottom less and without power, flat and boring.
Ah, loudness. As the magnificent "Bluff your way in Hi-Fi" book defined it: "Loudness: a bossy volume control that alters the sound because it thinks your ears work that way even though they don't"
Personally, I don't use loudness on equipment where it's a simple on or off choice, as I strongly dislike the effect
The only exception was on 1970s Yamaha amplifiers and receivers that had a variable loudness control that also reduced the volume. The idea was that you set it to its 'off' position, then set the main volume control to the highest level you would normally listen. Then, instead of using the volume control to reduce the level, you used the Loudness control, which introduced a gradual and subtle loudness effect as the level decreased.
I always thought it was a very neat solution.
I use loudness on most of my systems.
//Bo.A long list...
AdamS: Ah, loudness. As the magnificent "Bluff your way in Hi-Fi" book defined it: "Loudness: a bossy volume control that alters the sound because it thinks your ears work that way even though they don't" Personally, I don't use loudness on equipment where it's a simple on or off choice, as I strongly dislike the effect The only exception was on 1970s Yamaha amplifiers and receivers that had a variable loudness control that also reduced the volume. The idea was that you set it to its 'off' position, then set the main volume control to the highest level you would normally listen. Then, instead of using the volume control to reduce the level, you used the Loudness control, which introduced a gradual and subtle loudness effect as the level decreased. I always thought it was a very neat solution.
My McIntosh C32 preamp has the same thing, it was relatively common on more expensive and higher end gear back in the 60s and 70s. It's actually the most correct way to implement something like this, but is more expensive to do. If you look at the Fletcher Munsen curves you see the effect changes with sound pressure level.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Hi Adam!
The old Revox amplifiers, the superb A50 and A80 had a loudness filter that reduced the volume too.
On the Beolab amplifier, it is variable, according to the volume setting. At a certain point, I'd say half way up, the effect disappears. A bit too late I think!
Quite right - I attach the graph.
Peter
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio