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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I re glued the ABR's in my RL 60's about June 2009 time and they have come unstuck again, I want to do a proper job this time, does anyone have the knowledge as to what is the right type of glue I should use this time ?
I was thinking to get some Araldite, 2 part epoxy, but I just found out how expensive it is in Halfords
http://tinyurl.com/coqwxcp
I would think this one should do it, but as you are in Europe you may search for equivalent in Europe.
I think Leslie made a pair 1 or 2 years ago, maybe in an archived thread, dont remember which glue he used, ask him.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
the replacement foam surround that I used for my ABR's was thin carpet underlay and cheap carpet spray adhesive the first time around, but I need to use Liquid Nails or something much stronger this time :-)
my inspiration came from Frank back in 2009
http://www.frank-dejong.com/renovating-bang-and-olufsen-rl60-redline-60-speakers/
I might try something like this
http://www.unitedcarpetsandbeds.com/carpet-spray-adhesive
for anyone interested this guy turned a pair of RL60's into 60.2's using water pipe, pretty impressive and I am thinking about it, but I have both the 60 and 60.2's and I can't tell the difference between the two, and that is really trying to listen to them both and detect any subtleties in sound, but I can't, so I think I will just go with the easy fix and stronger adhesive glue
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=430994
Søren Mexico: I would think this one should do it, but as you are in Europe you may search for equivalent in Europe. I think Leslie made a pair 1 or 2 years ago, maybe in an archived thread, dont remember which glue he used, ask him.
Brengen & Ophalen
Hi Leslie, you used a thin leather type cloth for your ABR's and how did you attach the metal plate (the ABR ) to the leather cloth, you say not glued ? did you use double sided type ?
I think the thin leather cloth you mentioned is called in English "shammy or wash leather"?
Yes, double sided tape Tesafix 4965 (50mx25mm)
yes, it is called "Chamois Leather" , used a lot by people washing their cars
http://www.performancemotorcare.com/acatalog/3_sqft_Professional_Grade_Oil_Tanned_Chamois_Leathers.html
I think I will try this out with some double sided tape, and see how it compares to my RL 60.2 's
thanks Leslie - top man !
Chamois leather is stretchy so make sure you stretch them a bit before applying on the metal plate
Good luck!
just updating this in case anyone wants to have a go at fixing the ABR's on RL60's
find a pozidriv screwdriver ( magnetic head ) and a shaft about 10cm long, the DIN Is 5262 aka PZ.2
I bought this in Halfords for £1.49
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_778659_langId_-1_categoryId_165469
then you need a minimum amount of cloth to fix two ABR's, 35cm x 33cm will suffice, I just used a cheap synthetic chamois leather product sold in Halfords ( a UK chain of shops that sell car accessories amongst other things, I paid £2 for the imitation cloth, it has little perforations across the fabric, and has a little bit of stretch to it ( not much ) , so I thought this would be the ideal replacement for the foam that B&O originally used ( that just disintegrates after 20 years or so )
I then opened up the pair of RL60 shells, be careful as the front and back parts of the shell are connected to the speaker spade terminals by a green and black cable ( the green goes to + , in case you do pull the spade connectors off the back ) , then carefully take out the loose metal ABR's and unscrew the surround ( six screws ) , then take the surround and use a marker pen to trace around the outside and cut the fabric with scissors, I then used some super strong carpet adhesive spray on the ABR and the fabric, and left to dry for ten minutes.
I then sprayed both the metal surround and the chamois and stuck them together, left to dry for one hour whilst having some food and then put everything back together, job done two hours start to finish ( including cooking break )
am listening to them now, using my Beomaster 5500 amp, they sound wonderful again, just to assure myself, I then compared the RL60's to my RL60.2's and really cannot tell the difference.
pictures to follow
you need PZ.2 screwdriver, minimum 35cm x 33cm of synthetic chamois fabric and Liquid Nails or super strong spray adhesive, a pair of sharp scissors and a marker pen
[View:http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/themes/hawaii/utility/:800:0]
before you open up the shell, you want to remove the straps, at the back of the speaker there is one screw that holds the strap holder in place ( it looks like a black plastic wedge ), so unscrew and carefully lever it out and take the strap off, then do the other side ( these screws are 50mm in length ), be very very careful with these thin plastic straps, they can easily snap and you cannot buy replacements with the red monogram "Redline RL60" anymore
once both plastic strap wedges are removed, under where the wedge was, is a magnetic screw at the bottom, remove this and the one the other side, in the middle are the speaker connectors, and right under the middle of the connectors is a third screw that also needs removing.
then around the outside of the shell are 6 screws to also remove, these are all 42mm long
then very carefully prise the shell open, it is sometimes very difficult to do as the foam makes the shell airtight and they probably never been opened in the 25 years or more since they left the factory.
in the above picture on the right hand side is the metal surround for the ABR, the surround in held in place by six screws, remove these screws and clean off the old foam and glue from both the ABR and the surround.
you can see how the old foam that B&O used has just disintegrated and can no longer support the metal ABR in place
make a note of the padding / wadding to the left, this is where the padding needs to go back when you have finished repairing the ABR's
I then placed the ABR surround on the chamois ( and the ABR in the middle ) , I used a green marker pen to trace around the metal surround and then cut it with scissors
I did this for each ABR, so I had two cut outs like the one below
I then sprayed the ABR and the chamois and placed the ABR on the chamois, pressing down and left to dry for ten minutes
I then sprayed the surround and the edges of the chamois, left to dry for one hour !
put the shells all back together again and compared the SQ with my RL60.2's - can't tell the difference so very happy with the outcome.
I do like these kind of postings, great job!
thank you Leslie, some things are fun to do - sometimes !
wow, Im actually looking for instruction on how to change the speaker cloth (and what to use to replace the existing cloth) but was really impressed by the amount of detail and instruction you put into this item... way to go, your a pro man...
Well thank you very much or was this compliment ment for someone else?
Hi Peter, welcome to the forum :-)
most people in the UK buy from Radio Silks Limited in North London
http://www.radiosilks.co.uk/homepage.html
Radio Silks specialise in supplying loudspeaker grille cloth, the material is supplied in a pack containing 1.42 square meters of cloth, enough to cover the grilles of most domestic loudspeakers
the width of the roll is 142cm wide, so they send you in the post a 1 metre cut from this roll, so you end up with 142cm x 100cm = 1.42 sq metres
Their cloth is specially produced for loudspeakers, it is acoustically transparent and is as currently used by a number of major hi-fi manufacturers. It is perfect for replacing damaged grilles, or if you just want to change the colour to match a new colour scheme.
my Beovox Redline RL60's measure about 55cm high x 45cm wide - so the pack they send out easily covered my two speakers with a 1 metre cut of the grey material.
however it looks like the bigger RL140's may need a few centimetres more, and if someone could get back to me the exact measurements of the RL140's, then I will speak to Frank at Radio Silks and see if he can do a special for owners of RL140's
As an aside, the fabric industry sells cloth mainly in 142cm and 183cm widths, and more increasingly fabrics sourced from Europe are coming in 100cm, 150cm and 200cm widths
the gunmetal grey that B&O use for the RL speakers is not an exact match that Radio Silks can offer, but they have about four different greys on offer, so I just went for the lightest, it looks nice.
a quick tip, on the embossed B&O lettering, spray some really good tacky glue on the plastic shell first, then place the grille cloth quickly on the embossing so you get that original look and hold it in place for a good couple of minutes, then carry on covering the rest of the shell.
This is an easy repair, suggest you get 2mm sticky backed neoprene foam rubber ( not just the rubber version ) from a company such as Exact Rubber of Aldershot, England. They sell 500 x 500 mm sheets for £7 and a few pence which is sufficient for 2 redline 45s. The glue is extremely sticky and holds the vibrating plate well. The base is back and I'm enjoying my system again.
I'm sure you'll find similar suppliers but I found them to be very helpful and they use Ebay.
Given the ease of repair and the low cost who cares if it only lasts a few years.
Seedoubleu: Given the ease of repair and the low cost who cares if it only lasts a few years.
I, for one, certainly do!I wouldn't like to see the same pair of speakers back here for repairs with the same fault after only a few years.
Martin
The ABR is tuned/designed/calculated with the weight of the metal plate and the flexibility and tension of the original foam in order to obtain a specific resonance frequency and timing delay relative the bass driver(s).
I doubt that this type of repair will result in a well tuned system. Therefore I think that you might in worst case end up with something where the ABR will be counter productive (out of phase). Probably better just to seal the box with a rigid board.
The solution with the bass reflex port might be better if you have the proper equipment to tune them properly.
//Bo.A long list...
everyone is entitled to their opinion, but after testing my RL60 speakers alongside another pair of RL60's there was really no difference in the SQ, certainly not out of phase, so I think you are being pretty harsh, the man made chamois leather material is a really good alternative, and ideal for this repair !
I'm a newbie on this forum, so apologise on advance if I am not posting correctly, or in the wrong place. I couldn't find any way of doing it, other than starting a new thread or by replying to someone, Sorry, Overture
I came across beoworld after opening up my Redline 60s that have been in storage for about 7 years. Of course, I could hear something substantial rattling about inside as I removed them from their box.
In looking for a solution to the loose ABR, I found some very good advice here, so joined up. However, a number of links from postings that were made in years gone by are no longer in existence, so I thought I'd put in a few that I found today. I have also included some that refer to speaker repairs; the foam (again) surround of these is also likely to degrade. So here goes...
The passive radiators make this look like a very professional metal plate ABR replacement;
http://s18.photobucket.com/user/mfishmike/media/Bang%20and%20Olufsen%20Redline%20modification/passivesmounted.jpg.html?sort=2&o=8
The passive radiators themselves are available from:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/peerless-830880-peerless-5.25-mini-passive-radiator/
Here is an excellent step-by-step photo guide to another method that has been previously discussed here. Like BO earlier, I suspect this is not very scientific unless the drainage pipe diameter, length and positioning are correct. Why couldn't B&O release the detailed design of their now no longer available upgrade kit; it's out of production, so shouldn't hurt them to do so. But I've not been able to find it. Has anyone else?
And for those of you wishing to fix your speaker surrounds;
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/bang-olufsen-foam-edge-repair-kit-fsk-6.5.html
And finally, to re-cover the whole box:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-O-BANG-AND-OLUFSEN-REDLINE-140-SPEAKER-RECOVERING-KIT-/220918955650?pt=UK_Sound_Vision_Compact_Shelf_Stereos&hash=item336fcbbe82
I'm going to try the chamois (or "shammy", as some of us like to call it here) leather-substitute ABR repair first. It looks easiest, and closest to the original.