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Im getting one of these configurations tomorrow and im having trouble deciding i like both but the S3's can be multiplied in the future and the A6 is very powerful and interesting as well...
chris: Im getting one of these configurations tomorrow and im having trouble deciding i like both but the S3's can be multiplied in the future and the A6 is very powerful and interesting as well...
You will need to audition them together using the same music and source to see which you prefer. You then need to decide what you want in the future from them? The S3's can be multiplied but not wirelessly, I think the A6 can be multi roomed. This may be more what you're looking for but will be a more expensive option.
Dave.
These are two rather different solutions.
The A6 is a multi-source (and multi-room capable) sound system.
The ('double') S3 is merely a bluetooth sound system.
If you are only into streaming via bluetooth, you should audition the sound of both (solutions) and choose the one you like best.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Best thing would be for your dealer to allow you to try both. Whilst the A6 may sound nice, surely two s3 would be in a totally different league because of stereo separation. You decide how far apart they are, so definitely more HiFi.
Both are nice little lifestyle systems plus of course, you may fall in love with the design of one over the other big time!
The winner is the A6 ! And i'd like to say thanks for the help and replies guys!!
I think the A6 has more capabilities with it being multiroom i didn't think they were different when it came to capabilities but it seems the A6 is superior in that aspect. Only complaint is i wanted the red cover but you have to order it separately..also was wondering if a remote can be used with it i'll have to ask the dealer today.
You can use the Essence remote.
I really wish there was a version of the S3 that had wifi. I would love something like this for my kitchen, Stereo separation isn't important for me in the kitchen so I would probably need only one. For me bluetooth is an excellent for outside or traveling, but inside my house I would want wifi since all of my music is AIFF. I have one album that I purchased from iTunes before I purchased it on cd. A few times I accidentally played the iTunes version and it doesn't take long before I notice that something is off and I start worrying that something happened to my system, then I see that I am playing the iTunes version and switch over to AIFF and relax again!
Or I have a system that can reveal the difference. I am not the only one that can hear the difference. Friends who claim not to be an audiophile or have great hearing can hear it. The iTunes, while not bad, doesn't sound as full as the AIFF version, it sounds thinner. Is it really suprising that an AIFF song at 38.3 MB would sound different than the same song at 7.9 MB?
Mark Nowicki:Or I have a system that can reveal the difference. I am not the only one that can hear the difference. Friends who claim not to be an audiophile or have great hearing can hear it. The iTunes, while not bad , doesn't sound as full as the AIFF version, it sounds thinner. Is it really suprising that an AIFF song at 38.3 MB would sound different than the same song at 7.9 MB?
If an actual difference exists, I'm betting it's due to a level mismatch, each file having a different average loudness. I've seen tons of people claim the same only to fail a more controlled test with such variables removed. Most often the princess can't tell there's a pea under her mattresses.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Right now I envision the audio engineers at Bang & Olufsen being extremely sad if they didn't believe that people could differentiate the difference between an MP3 and a CD or (AIFF, WAV, etc.) with their speakers. How much of the audio information is discarded when it is compressed into a lossy format? Do you not think there is a difference in quality between CD and SACD or DVD-Audio?
This is my biggest fear in the audio industry, the big step backward to MP3's and the like and the eventual end of the CD. If you are happy with MP3's I am happy for you and a little envious, I would love for even more higher definition music (than CD) for the artists and styles that I listen to.
There is a psychological element to listening to music that I will admit to, but it goes in both directions.
I would think that BeoWorld being a forum devoted to high-end audio would have many more people here that have better trained hearing than me that would listen to the best available sources. If a new high-res format became available, they would be all over it! I hope that I am not wrong!
The difference may be, how do you listen to music? Is it just something in the background while you are doing something else? Then I can see where there wouldn't be a difference. For me, it is my "escape"! I sit down and listen to the music and imagine that I am there. I find myself often listening to instruments that are not up front. I am listening to guitarist who is just plucking away the same few notes throughout the song, and they are separate from the other musicians. I may not experience the depth of the soundfield that Geoff can, but I do experience the separation between most of the musicians.
The fact this comes up in a thread of the BeoPlay A6 is very relevant for me. I started my experience with this on a BeoSound 8. I had this system for a short time before i decided to convert it to an Airplay device with an Airport Express and a Musical Fidelity DAC. I tried a few different DACs, but this one particular was a brand new experiene. I was listening to Yvonne Catterfeld's Immer Noch, and I sat their rivited. At the very end with the piano, I saw it up front a little in my mind. At the end of the song, I just thought WOW! I had to play it again because I have never experienced anything like that. After the 2nd time, I ran upstairs to hear it on my then main system. A McIntosh MHT100 home theater receiver and Celestion A3 speakers. The song sounded like it was all mixed up in a bowl, there was no separation, while it sounded good I couldn't imagine the musicians playing in my mind, it was just a blob of music. The BeoSystem 8 made me dissatisfied with my other system. The soundstage wasn't huge on the 8, but there was separation of the musicians.
When I listen to music, I like to find new musicians playing that I may not have noticed before.
Mark Nowicki: When I listen to music, I like to find new musicians playing that I may not have noticed before.
Great post, Mark. This is what I often look forward to when rediscovering music on another system or speakers. A new experience. This is the "revelation" I had with the Beolab 9's.
Given that I've told people with exactly the same "oh my god perceptually encoded files are all awful!" attitude that a 256kbs VBR AAC file was "high def" and that a CD file of the same cut was CD, both ripped and put on the same CD, and the AAC file had gone thru CD to AAC back to CD format, and had them rave about how much better the "high def" file is, you'll understand why I don't agree with your observations. Maybe you can hear he difference but the example you use is no where near controlled enough to tell, different systems mentioned even! The human ear/brain system is remarkably susceptible to failure and easy to trick, great care must be taken to compare things correctly so that what you hear, if you hear any differences at all, aren't illusory.
I did testing, double blind, level matched on a number of single box CD players and outboard DACs back in the late 90s. One audiophile darling which was said to be "better than almost any single box player, a must buy" that was reasonably priced did indeed sound better or at leas different, until you level matched it and noticed that one channel was about .5 dB hotter than the standard for single box players, and the other channel was at 0,6 dB if I remember right. I don't blame the manufacturer, if I wanted to sell an outboard DAC that alleged to "improve" over the built in one I'd play the same tricks, But "better" than the internal DACs it wasn't. It was identical sounding.
BTW, the AirPort Express's internal DAC/analog section is pretty attrocious compared to even a cheap outboard DAC, lots of noise and compromises there.
Chris,
Enjoy your new A6! I'm sure B&O has improved upon the BeoSound 8, and if you enjoy the A6 as much as I have enjoyed my 8, you are in for a great treat! I hope we get the A6 in the states soon! I want to pick one or two up!
Thanks!! It was time for something new i've had a beosound 1 for 12 years now..
I have to say that the A6 looks much nicer in person than it does in pictures..
It's quite large which i like and it is more commanding when you see it.
The back is quite nice too..
Jeff: Given that I've told people with exactly the same "oh my god perceptually encoded files are all awful!" attitude that a 256kbs VBR AAC file was "high def" and that a CD file of the same cut was CD, both ripped and put on the same CD, and the AAC file had gone thru CD to AAC back to CD format, and had them rave about how much better the "high def" file is, you'll understand why I don't agree with your observations. Maybe you can hear he difference but the example you use is no where near controlled enough to tell, different systems mentioned even! The human ear/brain system is remarkably susceptible to failure and easy to trick, great care must be taken to compare things correctly so that what you hear, if you hear any differences at all, aren't illusory. I did testing, double blind, level matched on a number of single box CD players and outboard DACs back in the late 90s. One audiophile darling which was said to be "better than almost any single box player, a must buy" that was reasonably priced did indeed sound better or at leas different, until you level matched it and noticed that one channel was about .5 dB hotter than the standard for single box players, and the other channel was at 0,6 dB if I remember right. I don't blame the manufacturer, if I wanted to sell an outboard DAC that alleged to "improve" over the built in one I'd play the same tricks, But "better" than the internal DACs it wasn't. It was identical sounding. BTW, the AirPort Express's internal DAC/analog section is pretty attrocious compared to even a cheap outboard DAC, lots of noise and compromises there.
Jeff,
I can certainly appreciate your stance on this. I do not intend to become a defender of higher resolution formats. If people want to believe I am deceiving myself for perferring CDs, or AIFF files from CDs I am quite fine with that. I am happy that as of now we have the choice to be able to buy our music as digitally downloaded files or on CD.
I will admit that some of my new music that I get on CD probably doesn't offer much more (if any) resolution than MP3's. I wonder if it is because the new generation of studio's audio engineers are conditioned to music sounding a certain way, and since their panels "go to 11", they push it all to 11 for the entire song. Lost is the dynamic range much of the time, and it is all loud just shy of distortion. I have good luck with many of the long established studio's, but some of the smaller home-grown studios in my experience tend to be like this.
Audio equipment is continuing to evolve over time and I have seen quite a few improvements in my systems over the years. Whatever comes along in the future that I may get, I am comfortable knowing that my music collection is in the highest quality resoltution available. Music has always been my passion, and I take is as seriously as my budget will allow. Whether it was buying an LP in my youth from Civic Music for $4.15, or buying a CD now from amazon.co.jp for $41.50, it has always been a thrill for me to have the physical item in my hand!
I am a dying breed, I know, but I hope that this lasts for me for as long as possible!
Your statement about the Airport Express's internal DAC is something I believed from the start. That's why I purchased the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC for that system. I am a big believer in good DAC's. I believe that was the big weakness of the McIntosh receiver that I had. It kills me that I no longer have use of my Bryston BDA-2 DAC which I loved!
Mark
Mark,
Don't misunderstand, your preferences are just that, yours and fine and dandy. The thing that gets my goat is when people insist that their beliefs, often without technical merit, are reality for everyone and that I'm daft and deaf if I disagree! Which you don't, your reasoning is quite level headed and thoughtful) Even if there is absolutely no true difference in sound between an AIFF and an MP3 of the same file, if your mind reacts differently to the two because you believe one sounds better, and therefore you get more enjoyment out of it, that is as good as it gets and is the way you should pursue your music!
I've lost a few audio "buddies" when, after listening to them insist I must be deaf if I don't hear things I kind of shoved their noses in it with some controlled tests and just games like I described, but hey, if they are disparaging me how good a friend were they? Their reactions were pretty uniformly negative and refusal to believe was common.
You bring up an excellent point we've discussed here often on Beoworld, that is the awful compression and "loudness wars" going on in music that have reduced even CDs, with a wonderfully wide bandwidth and dynamic range, to being used to record compressed, limited, distorted music because that's what the studios think sells. Listening to most modern pop/rock recordings compared with a good jazz ensemble, for example, really highlights the differences. I have an all digital recording of Mal Waldron's jazz trio, which is one of the finest recordings I have heard. From the weight of the deep notes on the piano, the sense of space around it, to the sound of each individual brush sliding across the surface of the cymbals and the bite of the rosin on the bow for the bass, and further to the exact placement of each instrument, it's an example of just how good a recording can be.
I now have, with my BL9s, the best audio system I've ever had, and that includes my all tube (McIntosh MC240, AVA Super PAS3i preamp, various speakers, high end Denon CD) that I had right before my B&O purchases. But so few people really pay any attention to proper setup and such these days it seems.
I think most of the audible differences between DACs, where they can be found to actually exist, are due to deficiencies in the analog output stages on very cheap implementations. Certainly if cheap enough there can be digital issues, but the poor design of analog stages, noisy, unregulated power supplies, etc. can go a long way to destroy sound quality.
Thank you for this reply Jeff/
I am from an older generation that had many different music formats at one time, and always trying to find the best one. I liked vinyl, but the pops, ticks, and surface noise always took away from my enjoyment for me. Cassette tapes were good when they were new, but they degraded over time. Elcassettes only lasted a couple of years in the late 70's, so I didn't get much of a chance with that. When CD's came out in the 80's I was overjoyed that it was the end of pops and ticks, and they didn't (theoretically) degrade over time. (I had many LaserDiscs that suffered from laser-rot that would make me worry about CD's!)
I would never want to start a format war, I don't consider myself that much of an audiophile, and music for me is all about enjoyment, not over analyzing it. Like I mentioned before I believe there is a psychological element to music and systems, and I'm sure I've fallen prey to that more than once! Although I've never taken a green sharpey to the edges of my CD's!!!
There is another reason I still buy CD's though. Currently I listen to mostly Japanese artists (J-Pop), and the sales of their CD's are tracked by Orion. They don't show or report on digital sales, that I have seen, so to show my support of the artist I buy their CD's. Unfortunately it is now typical for a Japanese artist to sell maybe 5,000 copies of a CD tops. Many of my favorite artists do not last very long.
You have a much better system than I will probably ever have with your BeoLab 9's. You no doubt enjoy your music to a great degree. I pretty much got a heart attack after seeing the new price when I purchased the BeoLab 17's that have not been delivered yet. I hope to be able to enjoy my music to the best I am able. For me, the system has to pass the "Lucky Aura" test, that I have been unable to perform on it so far: The song Lucky Aura is from my favorite Japanese artist Erina Mano. Unfortunately she was on one of the worst labels I have seen. Her second single, Lucky Aura was actually recorded by an independant label which was even worse. I've taken this CD with me to audition DAC's, and many times I couldn't even stand listening to the entire song. The Bryston DAC was able to make it sound very listenable! I will completely enjoy the BeoLab 17's with the Essence if it makes Lucky Aura listenable!!! My music is definately not of the audiophile caliber, but I hope to make it as enjoyable as I can! My original statement of iTunes files wasn't meant to cause any discomfort to anyone. I do not have many tracks to compare, and it would take away from my enjoyment to get that clinical.
I hope I can enjoy my system half as much as you must enjoy yours. That would be a complete victory for me!
I am... Mano Friends!
(｡°∀°｡)ノ Really??
Well Mark, we are of a similar generation, the only difference in our media consumption is I had a 10.5 inch open reel and not an Elcassette, though I did sell them when I worked in a stereo/record store in college. Never could afford an Elcassette back then, though I was impressed with the performance and ease of use, but even when they were new I was concerned it'd be an orphan format. And I still have a limited number of LPs and a Beogram turntable.I used to be an Audiophile but I recovered. A musician once said a music lover uses his stereo to listen to my music, while an audiophile uses my music to listen to his stereo. I'm also old enough to remember when the first thing anyone did when they got any kind of tape deck, from 8 track to cassette to open reel, is make a copy of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon so you could listen to it all the way thru without having to flip the album over.
I can well see why you'd like to buy CDs to support your favorite bands especially given the narrow market nature of them. It'd be nice if more people did that.
The whole thing is, stating preferences is just fine, even the most die hard objectivist type of audio dude has no issues with that. If one says, I love LP, to me it sounds much more musical and natural, that's fine, personal preference, though I am like you the pops and clicks and inner groove distortion eventually got to me and I mostly abandoned LP. It's when someone says "LP is more accurate" and then coughs up some pseudoscientific, totally inaccurate BS to explain it that gives me heartburn. It's not more accurate, CD is a more accurate representation of the master tape, essentially identical if done right. A person may prefer the euphonic colorations that LP adds, but it is most certainly not more accurate. But you know, the first time I ever heard one of my favorite fusion jazz ablums, Romantic Warrior by Return To Forever, without significant distortion on the songs that were at the ends of each side of the album, was on CD.
If one DAC alone sounded good on the song, it's probably it's doing something inaccurate compared to all the others, perhaps rolling off the high end or such, but if it makes the music sound better to you that's the one you should own, specifications be damned. Have you ever heard of a piece of gear made by Carver called a Digital Time Lens? It was a box that added some frequency contouring and decreased the channel separation in a frequency dependent way to make the output of a CD player sound more LP like. It did work, and did a wonderful job of taming a lot of bad CD mixes. If you ever see one you might enjoy the effect.
I hope you truly enjoy your new Beolabs. I've heard the 17s, but not in a good setting. In my brief audition they sounded better than the BL4000s, more bass and such, but I still like the look of the 4000s better. I hope they sound wonderful with your Japanese albums!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:I heard the S3 yesterday, on its own and in a pair. For their size they were fantastic, but the two speakers kept taking it in turns to be the master speaker, depending on where the assistant stood Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Beovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, Beolab 9, Beolit 15, Beoplay A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.