ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi,
It might sound an odd setup but the alcove where my beovision 11-40 sits doesn't really allow too much space either side for front left and right speakers so I was wondering if it is possible to set the tv to be the front left, centre and front right channels and use a couple of BL3s or something for the rear left and rear right...and probably use a BL2 for the bass.
The alcove possibly has just about enough space either side for a speaker (eg BL8000) so it wouldn't really provide any width to the front audio and would almost just be there to provide external speakers for the front left and front right channels so I'm wondering if there's a way to bypass needing external front left and right speakers at all.
If it is possible, is anyone in a position to try it to see if it actually sounds any good.
If it's not possible I may just have to deal with it and either ditch the idea of rear speakers or cram some either side of the tv.
The alcove is slightly off to one side of the chimney putting the tv in the corner of the room ... :(
If I could put the tv as close to the chimney as reasonably possible and just use a couple of rear speakers then it would be reasonably square-on but if I need speakers either side of the tv then it pushes the tv further away from the chimney and so pushes it more off-centre from the settee.
It sounds like mine is a similar situation to what was asked here for BV10 but mine is a BV11 in case that makes a difference.
Basicly you can make the speakers of your BV11 play any role, that you would want them to - which (by the way) makes the audio engine totally different from that of the BV10.
However, since the BV11 has a 2.0 speaker system built-in, you cannot create a front/left, center, front/right situation.
For this you would need a 3.0 system like what the BV Avant has.
I suppose that - even in your room - the sound would benefit a lot from adding external speakers (left/right) - you could then make the internal speakers play the role of the center.
There are a lot of possibilities to tweek the sound in the (BSys4) audio engine. Best have a look (means: study) the Technical Sound Guide, that is part of the User Guide of your tv.
See here:
http://www.bang-olufsen.com/~/mediaV3/Files/User-Guides/BeoVision11/Technical-Sound-Guide/Technical-Sound-Guide-1409.pdf
Considering the placement of the tv - have you thought of a BL14.4 speaker setup for the surround sound?
P.S. Welcome to Beoworld ;-)
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
In my Avant setup , i am using the TV speakers as Left, Right and Centre. I dont have any additional front speakers as like you the room doesn't lend itself and even if you could fit them, its not wide enough.
I am using BL18s as rears. I was using BL3s before - which are good for rear speakers.
If i had a better shaped room i could use the BL18s as fronts and the BL3s as rears.
Thanks MM :)
I had seen the technical sound guide but didn't find an answer to my issue.
The "TV" group currently says "Beovision 11" for "Front Left" and "Front Right".
Do you know if I connected 2 x BL3s, the setup menu would allow me to create a group with the Beovision 11 as the Front Left and Front Right (ie 2.0 system for the front) and select one BL3 to be Left Surround and another to be Right Surround (ie making it a 4.0 system) or whether the BV11 speakers will no longer be selectable and the tv speakers will only be useable together as the centre channel (ie a triangular 3.0 system => centre + 2 rears)?
Hope that makes sense.
Having the 'TV' Speakers Group' as is, does not keep you from creating a new group with the tv speakers as L/R and the BL3's as LS/RS.
As written above - you can make the Speakers Groups as you please.
However, you must know that the center speaker is an essential part of a multichannel setup - especially with native multichannel/5.0 (or 5.1) content.
Without the center (in a 4.0 setup) you could have a 'sort of phantom center speaker' - but only if you sit pretty much in front of/between the FL/FR speakers of the tv (in the sweetspot).
Note: you can select this Speakers Group, when you need it, want to use it - or you could even assign it to a specific source (e.g. a connected Blu Ray player).
It would be possible, yes - I would not recommend it, though.
P.S. You really ought to study the Sound Guide - it is very comprehensive and you can learn new things each time you read it.
Thanks.
I assume that the tv is currently applying a phantom centre speaker anyway since it is only using the 2 internal speakers when I watch a film.
Beovision 11-55, BeoPlay V1 40, Beosound 9000, Beolab 8000's and 3 Beocom 5's...
Gennaro:Why haven't we seen an update for over a year now???
Update to/for what?
Are you missing something?
Millemissen:Update to/for what? Are you missing something? MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Personally I would not call the 14 an 'update' of the 11.
Those are - though looking the same - rather different.
The BV11 is a mature BV - I was just wondering, what Gennaro would be missing there (that could be added/changed through an update)?
By the way - speaking of 'using/configuring' external speakers - the audioengine in both is pretty much the same.
Millemissen: Personally I would not call the 14 an 'update' of the 11. Those are - though looking the same - rather different. The BV11 is a mature BV - I was just wondering, what Gennaro would be missing there (that could be added/changed through an update)? MM
haha - the same shape with different wifi module in a different place and a software update... yeah very different. :-)
It's taken a while (I contacted them before putting question on this forum) but I've had a response from B&O that confirms as such (not that I didn't believe you MM ):
"I had to confer with our technical support and apologise for the late reply. If you set the integrated speaker to play left and right front channels, the TV will automatically add the centre channel and you can connect rear speakers and a subwoofer for surround."
Thanks
Col
Aussie Michael:haha - the same shape with different wifi module in a different place and a software update... yeah very different. :-)
amnesia7: It's taken a while (I contacted them before putting question on this forum) but I've had a response from B&O that confirms as such (not that I didn't believe you MM ): "I had to confer with our technical support and apologise for the late reply. If you set the integrated speaker to play left and right front channels, the TV will automatically add the centre channel and you can connect rear speakers and a subwoofer for surround." Thanks Col
Just found this thread, but that's what I would have assumed the audio engine would do. For what it's worth, that's not dissimilar to how my setup is configured, even though I am not using B&O AV gear. I use an Infinity speaker that has identical drivers for L, C, and R in one aluminum cabinet, which considering how close together they are is essentially the same thing, with L and R surrounds on each side of the couch. Actually this works quite well for me, as when I used my main speakers as part of a setup and they were a fair distance away from the screen, it caused some cognitive dissonance. When a guy did something on the right side of the screen, the sound was far off screen to the right. It sounded a bit weird at times. As it is, it seems to center the sound to the screen even for L and R better, and the surrounds still give an enveloping effect, and when needed some L and R pull out of the sound.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
How 'the center speaker issue' is handled in a BV Avant is demonstrated here:
http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2014/05/09/bo-tech-beovision-avant-audio/
Scroll to 16:00 - (best viewed/listened to on a tv/airplay).
I have linked to this presentation before, but it is worth reviewing.
My personal opinion is, that - if you have a BV11 - you'd better add external front speakers and set the internal to center. This is imo more important than adding rear speakers.
MM, I hold the opposite opinion, the envelopment and effects you get from having surround speakers is, to me at least, a bigger performance boost than separate L and R speakers. My experiences with my sound bar type LCR front and surrounds produces a very enveloping sound field that allows the surround effects to do their job of immersion. Was rewatching an episode of Penny Dreadful the other night, when two of the protagonists are sitting in the parlor and someone breaks in upstairs. The sound over my right shoulder was so realistic I turned my head thinking someone was breaking into my house before I realized it was the show. You can't get that kind of envelopment without surround speakers.
@Jeff
But then you do have 'some kind of' R/L fronts!
Your soundbar is probably doing some heavy DSP in order to spread the sound of the R/L.
Of course the rear/surround speakers add a lot of ambience, but the majority of what is going on soundweise happens in the front - and a center makes the dialogs clearer....especially to those who don't sit in the sweet spot.
No DSP, it's a simple three speaker in one longish box unit driven by a plebeian Marantz 5.1 receiver, the L and R speakers are almost touching the drive units for the center. The only real disadvantage over using two speakers under the set, such as with the Beovision 11, as a merged L, R and Center is that the center channel audio will get a bit of comb filtering effect, but if you listen fairly close to in front of the set it won't be that significant. If the BV11 is like most AVRs you should be able to boost or cut the amount of center info that's mixed into the L and R channels as required, and certainly the speakers used in the BV11 are more than capable of significant output, probably more so than the ones in my LCR bar.
To me anyway, it's the envelopment and surround effect, in addition to a decent sub, that really brings the theater effect into the home.
Ok - I got you, Jeff.
But you are talking 'theater effect'.
I was talking using the tv for everyday purpose (which of course also includes watching movies) - most tv viewing does not 'deserve' surround/rear speakers.
I use my tv/my BV (which basicly means the front speakers) for listening to music almost more than for watching tv.
Different uses - different solutions.
Ah, I can understand that. I don't use my TV for music, my two systems while colocated are separate, and I don't really watch "regular" TV anymore. I dumped cable TV almost a year ago, and where I live you can't get any over the air channels, so it's Amazon and Netflix streaming that I do when I want to watch TV. Or DVDs/BlueRays.
I would imagine though that the BV11 is a pretty good source of music too, albeit not in the same league as a free standing pair of speakers that are larger.
I've been toying with the idea of signing up for the Berlin Philharmonic broadcasts of concerts, if I do I'll cast the audio to my Playmaker and use my BL9s rather than the AV setup, even though when doing the preview of it the TV sound setup sounds pretty darned good, it's no substitute for the BL9s.
Probably I am heavily influenced by the fact, that the hub in a B&O A/V setup for decades has been a tv/a BV.
For me any audio source has been a source of my BeoVisions, that had all (external) speakers connected.
For me it has always been a question of how I configure my speakers for audio and video.
This is probably different in the USA, since the BV's weren't sold there untill relatively later.
I can see that MM. I've not gone the BV route for several reasons, high price, and lagging the specs of other sets that's kind of inevitable for a small firm like B&O. I can see several reasons why owning either a Beosystem or a BV would be nice, just not nice enough to justify the cost, at least for me. My audio system has always been centered on the BS9000, and my video system on an AVR and ancillary components, speakers, etc. I did have them merged at one time using an AV7000 but that piece never did blow my dress up, as it were. A pretty mediocre product sadly, which I still have sitting in a closet.
The AV7000 was never sold or used in Europe/Denmark - we had the BV's for that (the MX and the first Avant).
IMO only the BSys3/BSys3-based products and especially the BSys4.... products deserve the role of a hub for both audio and video.
My tv is in the corner near the window to the left of the chimney and the dining area takes up the other half of the living room.
Unfortunately, this means that the tv only has the front curtains/window to bounce sound off on the left off of it and nothing at the other side.
I've read through the technical sound guide again to see if there are any options that could help my situation but I can't see anything. I'm not sure it's even possible but I kinda want to bounce the right hand speaker/channel off the back wall of the living room (beyond the dining area) and the left speakers bouncing (if that's possible) off the front wall/window of the living room which is right at the side of the tv. So the left channel "wall" is about 2ft to the left and the "wall" for the right channel is about 20ft to the right.
I can't see it being possible but I thought it was worth asking if there's a way to increase to width of the sound stage from the tv speakers when there are asymmetrical wall distances for bouncing the left and right off. It could be used only when main settee being used and regular speaker setup used at other times if need be.
The tv is on a motorised stand so sitting in the sweet spot is not a problem if that matters. I've increased Spatial Control : Stage Width to 10 / full but I don't have anything to hand at the moment to confirm whether / how much difference it has made (it was already on 7 anyway).
I'm mainly looking at this for the purpose of movies rather than music.