ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I wonder why B&O is expanding so much the BeoPlay range. I think it becomes a bit difficult to understand. Too much is for me not always the best.
If you are in an headphone hunt, you have to choose between : H2, H3, H3ANC, H4 (coming), H5, H6, H7, H8, H9, Form2i, Earphones, and Earset3i... That's 12 models! And most of them have more or less the same design.
For a small bluetooth speaker, you have : A1, A2, A2active, BeoLit15, BeoLit17 (coming), P2 (coming), S3, and M5...
With all these models, how can a B&O 'virgin new' client choose without being afraid of making the wrong choice? Why do they seem to focus so much on BeoPlay and not on the main B&O range?
benoit: Why do they seem to focus so much on BeoPlay and not on the main B&O range?
Why do they seem to focus so much on BeoPlay and not on the main B&O range?
Probably why that is what currently brings the money.
Besides - it is in the nature of a brand like B&O Play to be more 'aggressive'.
The Bang & Olufsen A/V business is somewhat quiter, when it comes to marketing.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Back in the 90's Apple was doing the same with multiple computers that were slightly different and really overlapped. It nearly caused them to go bankrupt. After they axed that strategy they started returning to profit.
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BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
Millemissen: benoit: Why do they seem to focus so much on BeoPlay and not on the main B&O range? Probably why that is what currently brings the money.
But you say that and a dealer would completely disagree! My local dealer claims they ONLY stock the BeoPlay products because they have to, as part of their agreement with B&O - they make very little money from them. They claim they make their money from the bigger TVs, custom installs and so on.
Although I love the BeoPlay products (few I dislike), I do partly agree that there's a hell of a lot of headphone options which is a tad confusing.
It's the shotgun approach - make enough variations of something that has relatively low Engineering overheads and investment and you will have hopefully have also made the "sweetspot" unit that accounts for the majority of the volume. Many companies do it, it is common if you don't have a visionary in charge (it is even apparent now in apple since cook took over from jobs), or your marketing department is incapable of distilling a true direction from the available market data.
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher:It's the shotgun approach - make enough variations of something that has relatively low Engineering overheads and investment and you will have hopefully have also made the "sweetspot" unit that accounts for the majority of the volume. Many companies do it, it is common if you don't have a visionary in charge (it is even apparent now in apple since cook took over from jobs), or your marketing department is incapable of distilling a true direction from the available market data.Ban boring signatures!
It's clear from the recent company report http://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/investors/presentations/webcast
that the bulk of the earnings are from Beoplay. There appears a scattergun approach to the range to keep this money coming in.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
moxxey: But you say that and a dealer would completely disagree!
But you say that and a dealer would completely disagree!
It is not your dealer, who makes these decisions.
IMO - what he is able to sell depends on his skills as a salesman.
But it is obvious, what for time being brings the money in the pockets of B&O as a company....
....as you can see in the company report.
StKong: The Beoplay range is not inherently B&O design wise.
The Beoplay range is not inherently B&O design wise.
Who is there to judge?
Millemissen:Who is there to judge?MMThere is a tv - and there is a BV.
So - what is 'good taste'?
B&O has been using composite/'plastic' materials for decades.
The 'coarse textile' - well, you obviously don't like it.
If I may understand your statement as your opinion, I'll say no further.
Millemissen:So - what is 'good taste'?B&O has been using composite/'plastic' materials for decades.The 'coarse textile' - well, you obviously don't like it.If I may understand your statement as your opinion , I'll say no further.MMThere is a tv - and there is a BV.
Agreed. Personally I feel b&o are in the same 'trap' and Apple. Used to be cutting edge and clearly different, now just different in an arrogant fashion. Even me using Apple computers for almost 20 years I have to admit that as of late there's very little reason I can recommend their machines other than for software. Recent cheap HP laptops running windows10 are quite nice and build quality is totally there. Current iPhones are very outdated tech for example, still an Apple user but it really takes quite the justification these days.
B&O same thing, line of cheap almost consumer, proprietary products that are essentially disposable, Bose-like. And 'high end' that are even within themselves not very compatible, give no impression of overall value. Why buy a Beolab 90 when no b&o current system supports any digital connections? WISA is supported by nothing else and adds essentially nothing. Design is straight from the 70s. I can go on..
B&O play line are really thing only thing keeping their doors open these days and I can respect that.
Their recent television line is a disaster, why a tiny 48" 6k$+ LCD television running Android can't be as stable and adaptable as a crappy 300$ set using the same tech is totally beyond me to explain.
For me used to be about good design and solid integration, neither of which I can express about anything they currently offer.
Me too I cannot comprehend b&o as of late.
I completely agree with you David, spot on.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
I don't think we need to "get" what the Play range is.
Play range is essentially the same product throughout - a BT receiver, a small amp (usually mono), a speaker set and a number of "cereal packet" designs (different on the outside, same corn product on the inside).
What Play is....is a set of easily bolted together common components to make a quick-turnaround product in a box that looks high quality.
From an engineering, design and fabrication perspective it makes sense.
From a concept to sales to margin perspective it makes very good sense.
B&O are doing what the Asian manufacturers have been doing for years and piggy-backing their technology and R&D costs.
There is an insufficient market appetite for massive commitment to state of the are HiFi anywhere anymore and particularly sources. Loudspeakers - yes and I think B&O are doing quite well there.
On the other thread of "B&O Sound". Well perhaps it is a bit of a mish-mash.....but then again, there is probably no clear consensus on what sound people want or want to buy (more base, less base, harsh, smooth etc..). I think they are covering their bases so to speak.....all for revenue and survival.
Totally agree with Mr 10Percent
We all have different 'ears' and budgets, so if you can - you choose what's best for you personally from all the options given.
I'd compare it to doing "half-sizes" in shoes myself. Yes, it means carrying loads more stock - but if that perfect fit gets you a sale over someone else, it's worth it as long as it didn't cost you too much to get there.
Lee
For me, what's missing is a common brand identity. The Beolit and A2 have a squircle form with perforated metal grilles and the A6 introduced a curved front with an unframed fabric grille. The A2 is perforated metal all in one finish with no detail round the edge that's found on previous speakers. And now the M5..... That looks cheaper than a Beolit to me.
it's more British Leyland than Audi or BMW in its consistency.
Yes, Mr 10Percent has some good points there (and 9 Lee certainly too).
But I would not describe the A6, the A9 and even the M5 as 'a BT receiver, a small amp (usually mono), a speaker set...'.
These seem to me to be a bit more than that - and also due to the NL support very usefull in a B&O A/V context.
One may like them or not - but that is a matter of a personal choice.
@Simonbeo
I like the diversity - apart from the M5 and the Beolit being two different devices, I'd prefer a M5 over a Beolit anytime ;-)
I liked the diversity in the MX / Avant days , with David Lewis, but they all matched.
Simonbeo:it's more British Leyland than Audi or BMW in its consistency.
Mr 10Percent:I don't think we need to "get" what the Play range is.
What it doesn't have is any sense of purpose or coherent vision and it looks very like you describe - "a bit of a mish mash" made from "a set of easily bolted together common components to make a quick-turnaround".
Compare this to Sonos who, very successfully, made an entire company from a set of a few wireless speakers that are of an acceptable quality, at a similar (or lower) price point, are recognised as working well together and are still the consumer "benchmark" for an in-house distributed audio system.
Surely B&O's (under the Play moniker) primary objective should have been to introduce a recognisable family of wireless speakers which worked well with locally stored music and streaming services that gave a clear "upgrade" in terms of style to the Sonos concept - they could have blew them away!
Unless mothership knows that there is more money to be made with special edition headphones for designer unicyclists or another portable Bluetooth speaker with a totally unique coloured handstrap!
Puncher: Unless mothership knows that there is more money to be made with special edition headphones for designer unicyclists or another portable Bluetooth speaker with a totally unique coloured handstrap! Ban boring signatures!
Simonbeo:For me, what's missing is a common brand identity.
Exactly. It is impossible to have coherent design at home with Beoplay products. Metal, plastic, different kind of textile, leather... You put A6 and A9 next to each other and the uninformed person could never guess they are coming from the same brand. Why is this disconnected design language good for the brand is beyond me.
That said, I particularly like how the A1 and A9 look - just as a side comment. ;)
AnalogPlanet:Exactly. It is impossible to have coherent design at home with Beoplay products. Metal, plastic, different kind of textile, leather... You put A6 and A9 next to each other and the uninformed person could never guess they are coming from the same brand. Why is this disconnected design language good for the brand is beyond me. That said, I particularly like how the A1 and A9 look - just as a side comment. ;)
Duels: At the end of the day an A9 is not likely to be placed next to an A6 in a real world situation.
At the end of the day an A9 is not likely to be placed next to an A6 in a real world situation.
correct. M5 is in the kitchen, A6 in the livingroom; both in black. i just don't know what they want with so many headphones.
Wohnzimmer: BeoVision Avant 55", BeoLab 11, 12-2 und 12-3 für 5.1-Sound + appleTV 4K und Philips BluRay-Player; BeoSound 2, BeoSound 3000 (fast nur noch Deko)////Schlafzimmer: BeoEssence MkII, BeoLab 4000 + Samsung 46"-TV////Büro: BLC NL/ML, BeoSound 35, Thorens TD320MkII, Samsung 32"-TV, WesternDigital 4TB-Server////Bad: BeoLab 2000; alles CAT7 verkabelt////Küche: M5 (drahtlos) plus diverse apple-Geräte (imac, macbook, ipads, iphones, timecapsule, watch)
egges:i just don't know what they want with so many headphones.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
For what it's worth, the whole more headphones than the executive committee has heads seems to be fairly common, though I don't understand it. I recently got an email from Klipsch about their headphones, and by god there were a lot of them, mostly if not all in the ear designs. Look at the Koss website and it's the same, page after page of headphones. The only thing I can think of is that for many, with outsourcing to China, making headphones is so cheap and profit laden that they can afford to have a bazillion of them.
A few years back when the in-wall speaker was all the rage, same thing, every speaker company seemed to feel the need to have far more designs than I thought they could ever justify.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I still believe it takes more than a common Kvadrat textile for three products to project a coherent design language.
Personally, I rank A9 very highly design-wise. A6 is... ...tolerable. M5 is just lazy design, sorry to say it.
AnalogPlanet: I still believe it takes more than a common Kvadrat textile for three products to project a coherent design language. Personally, I rank A9 very highly design-wise. A6 is... ...tolerable. M5 is just lazy design, sorry to say it.
A good summary.
Yes I agree, a very good summary. M5 is a huge disappointment and doesn't strike me at all as a B&O product.
The truth is I think B&O are completely lost without Davis Lewis or Jacob Jensen. They are now just like any other brand with no competitive edge. It was always design that set them apart. Their current products are boring and very mediocre from a design perspective.
The new 2017 LG signature tv, to be released in the next month with its accompanying Dolby Atmos sound bar, demonstrates just how average B&O actually are, in fact in many ways behind with their televisions not even incorporating up to date technology and specifically, why their prices are no longer justified. Just what are you paying for these days with a B&O tv? A set riddled with software problems, out of date technology and lacking in design is the actual truth. No thanks, Simon.
BAND'OH!:A set riddled with software problems, out of date technology and lacking in design is the actual truth.
StKong:We are sadly in agreement. From cutting edge to cutting corners.
From cutting edge to cutting corners.
Fantastic! They should make that the subtitle of one of their books on the company's history -
"100 Years of Bang & Olufsen - from Cutting Edge to Cutting Corners"!