The new B&O

I remember reading interviews with David Lewis. I remember reading about the passion at B&O to make the impossible possible. They were proud of it, and I was proud of B&O.

One dream of Mr. Lewis was to make a loudspeaker that would effectively dissappear. In the pursuit, he made slender and descreet speakers, that both blended in with the surroundings, and when noticed, made a statement.

BeoLab 8000 and 6000 were deemed impossible by engineers, but Mr. Lewis didn't budge: he said something along the lines "make it possible". And the engineers worked, and worked, and made Mr. Lewis's vision a reality. That resulted in incredible advances in active loudspeaker technology. It resulted in the birth of ICEpower amplifiers: small powerhouses that were built to realise a vision that a speaker should dissappear, or at least never dominate.

At that time, Mr. Lewis also had to power to say "no" to a product, when engineers wanted to comporomise a design. He could send the engineers back to work, or have B&O bury the product. He had the "veto" on products – he and the CEO.

I see those times as the hayday of B&O. Their products (speakers, in particular) defied the laws of physics and acoustics, and as such were magical. They made engineering marvels that challenged the possibilities of mechanics: BeoSound 9000 comes to mind, and BeoCenter AV5 (even though it was not successful) and BeoCenter 1. Even BeoVision 7 was a wonder: the DVD/Blu-ray mechanism was simply awesome, pure B&O.

I remember fondly, with a smile just thinking about them, owning those producs, among a myriad of other.

A good designer is hard to replace. You may argue otherwise, but it doesn't change that fact. Sometimes, a corporate culture – the way of doing things – dies with a designer.

Looking at B&O's designs since the iconic BL8000, BV5, BS3000, BS9000, I see an obvious lack of designer vision:

BeoLab 18: supposedly an improvement of the original. Acoustically, yes. Design? No.

BeoLab 20: Why? What was wrong with BeoLab 9? Again, BL20 was just taking David Lewis's design, and tweaking it.

Neither BL18 or 20 are anything original. And BeoLab 17, a successor to BeoLab 4000? Please! I'll take the BL4000 over BL17 any given day.

Those are just a few examples. I'm not even going to get started on BS Moment.

A lot has changed at B&O:

It is no longer a design-driven company. It is an engineer & margins driven company.

Back in the day, David Lewis was the "face" of B&O. He was at the heart of the whole company, of every product.

Today the one and only "face" of B&O I can think of is Geoff Martin. He's simply a genius. An uncompromising genius, true to the B&O heritage. Mr. Martin has made B&O sound better than ever before (some might debate on this, re: BL9 vs BL20). The sound of B&O's flat-screen TVs is today incredible – something where the not-so-flat Avant 32" RF once set the bar.

Today, I see Geoff as the heart of B&O. If he ever left the company, B&O would lose the last bit of what makes them stand above the rest. Feel free to challenge this opinion.

As for designs, Mr. Martin's approach seems to pose a dilemma: both BL90 and BL50 were acoustic engineering driven loudspeakers. The designer(s) did the best they could to cloth the physics that were required by acoustic realities in a nice design. I like BL50 very much. I only wish it was a tad smaller. Yet, I think BL5 was a more exceptional combination of design & sound – equally.

BeoVisions? B&O gave up their core competence in Vision. If I want to buy an LG, I'll buy an LG – at a very realistic cost. B6V was lauched at ~3.500€ (55"), as was B7. I got both less than a year from launch at 2.000€ each. Cheap, I would say.

I cannot get past the value proposition of Eclipse. Is the SoundCenter & floor stand really worth ~9.000€ on top of the price of LG 55C7? In my opinion, no. Plus I'd be left with LG GUI in any case.

I was happy to pay a considerable price for Avant (CRT, with VCR and later DVD), BeoCenter AV5, BeoCenter 1 and BeoVision 1 and BeoVision 7, 10 and 11, because they all really were like no one else. Is Eclipse "like no one else"? No, the Vision part of the BeoVision is "just like LG – Life's Good". FFS!!

So where is B&O heading?

With speakers, to heavenly audio, no question. All their speakers sound great – magnificent – but the designs are getting... a bit too big. Perhaps there'll be a baby brother of BL90 and BL50 to replace BL3, the compact little wonder. I'd love the idea of a BeoLab 30 – a BL3 version of BL50, just like BL3 was the smallest offspring of BL5.

If I were to consider a B&O speaker now, with regard to design & unimposing size, I can only think of BL20. For me, even that's on the large side of speakers. BL18? No, just no, simply because of the design, having owned BeoLab 8000. One is iconic, the other is a design experiment gone wrong.

BeoVisions? When the last remaining BV11 model is gone, and Avant is replaced by Eclipse, there is no _BEO_vision anymore.

Audio? BeoSound Shape and the BS1 & 2 & 35 are nice. Especially the Shape. It is truly like no one else, in concept, design & execution.

BeoPlay offers some nice audio products: A6 and A9. Good-sounding first purchases for customers to enter the world of B&O. That is, unless the customers run into trouble with their products. Then they are too often faced with customer service that is worse than what you get from Sony, LG or Samsung. Play is a good entry to B&O – as long as the Chinese products work. If they don't, that is a fast way to start loathing B&O. After all, even Play products are not cheap.

To cut to the core: I see B&O hanging by two threads: Geoff Martin and BeoPlay. If Geoff goes, only Play will be viable.

So this train of thought ends with a question: what is left of B&O as we knew it 40, 30, 20 or 10 years ago, when all their core competences were in house – when B&O was still truly a Danish brand with uncompromising values & heritage, design & craftmanship?

The day Louis Vuitton starts using fake leather somewhere in their bags, and starts making them in Czech or China, will you still accept the premium because they have LV printed on them?

Have to agree with this. I would however happily buy a Geoff Martin branded speaker knowing it would be great!

You make several accurate and cogent points. Especially the one about how David Lewis was the heart of B&O, forcing engineers to make his designs sound as good as possible, which was a successful approach. During his years they produced many iconic products that not only were beautiful but sonically very good to extremely good. Now it seems to be engineering then passed off to the designers with instructions to wrap a halfway pretty wrapper around it. I agree with you, while Geoff Martin is a talented engineer, none of the new speakers are particularly attractive, especially as compared with the previous generation of Lewis designs. But, the thing is, there are many well engineered and sonically good products out there from other manufacturers, what I have respected B&O for and why I bought them is the combination of design and performance I got nowhere else. I had owned plenty of high performance gear before, but never good looking high performance gear.

To me, the BL5 was an amazing product, such stunning performance coupled with such radical and beautiful design. Even if the BL50 sounds much better, Jesus is it Ugly to me, it looks like an oversized space heater/room air filter with a pop up turkey timer on top, none of the grace and elegance of the BL5. And it's by no means sure that the well heeled audiophiles will flock to buy the BL90 and 50, as they want more tweakability (different amps and cables for their fetish) and have a long history of looking down their noses at B&O that will be a hard thing for B&O to overcome.

The Beovisions have gone steadily downhill after the BV12/11. Play has had a lot of issues with bad networking and the fact you see the product line churn so rapidly means that despite making money they don't have a cohesive vision. From Beolit 12 to 15 to 17 in how many years? The Moment is still a very troubled product.

B&O faces a difficult enough time as the whole consumer electronics market is in flux and changing due to how people live and access music and video now, and in my opinion they are not rising to the challenge. They are acting like a company run by trendy MBA types with good speaker engineers, not a design focused, devoted, visionary firm anymore. Which upsets me as they were the only company who did what they did, they were unique.

Time will tell where this goes. They have had near death experiences before, but it seems different and more serious now.

The latest BL90 & BL 50 are LIGHTYEARS AHEAD OF the iconic older units.

Their design language is as yet unfamiliar to fans.

I for one luv them

Barry

Something I forgot to include. B&O has many products in the Museum Of Modern Art...which of the current products can you imagine seeing there now?

The moment

I love a person with a sense of humor!

This is a great thread and I can't really add much (though I'll give it good go!) as it has already been said very eloquently by KMA and Jeff.

Like Peter, I am in full agreement with KMA, and the points you raise about current products being tweaked products of the past, I too have mentioned several times in previous months. There are no new designs apart form the Shape (which is great and is B&O in my opinion and the BL90s, which are nice, but not quite as striking as the BL5s albeit acosutically superior. I agree with Peter about the BL5s. I love this product as the design is unlike anything else out there, quite marvellous and striking.

Jeff, x 100!

Your comment about the heater and turkey made me laugh SO LOUD! Its past midnight here in the UK, I am on my laptop in my bedroom and I burst out laughing so much probably waking up half the street in the process! Thanks for that!! The funny thing is that I agree with you completely! You offer a perfect description. I really don't like the look of the BL50s at all and wonder how the design even got accepted by higher management? I think the wrong people are now employed by B&O. They really have lost focus in so many areas. Are they actively looking for new talent? There must be so many up and coming David Lewis proteges out there just waiting for a chance to be heard. My instincts tell me that B&O are so full of pride and caught up in their own arrogance that they don't even give these young people a chance. Please someone tell me I am wrong!

Altough i agree with you in general i must disagree with you on the bl18's. I've had the bl8000 and now the bl18's, they sound fab but that's not all. The i feel i see more of the pollished alu and the oak blends much nicer than the black frets in my interior. The acoustic lens gives it a funky look and really makes ordinairy speaker people confused about what it is. I get many compliments about them, which i like obviously call me simple but i do really like the green/red lights too with switching on/off, very nice gimmick and glow.

The way i remember the launch of the bl5's, in my circles anyway, it was very polarising. I've only warmed up to the look of them the last 3 to 4 years or so. The sound was always impressive, but you really needed to have an interior to match the looks. Most people i know still don't have an interior modern enough to not make them look out of place. Personally i like the look of the bl5's, but i think they look best in white.

Regarding the bl50's i personally like the look of them very much. The only thing i kind of like the least in the front black fret, there is too much of it and makes it look bulky imo. But to my eyes, the bl5's have the same "issue" if one can call it that.

I like the look of the penguins/bl20's more than the bl9, same for the sound. However for the pricepoint there isn't enough pollished alu for it to immidiately strike me as b&o other than the aucoustic lens.

The thing that strikes me as the most obvious where b&o lost it design way is the eclipse. And by that i don't necessarily mean the design of the tv by itself. The tv by itself looks alright, granted there is too much lg when you turn it on etc. What strikes me is that the bl50's launched about a month ago now, but the eclipse imo doesn't match the look. Its not that they look bad together, but its not a cohesive disign either. If the alu fret on the eclipse was the same kind of pollished, that atleast could pull it a bit together. I find it somewhat strange that the bl18's matched so well with the bv14, that pairing looked very well put together. The bv14 matches better with the bl50's too. This is what strikes me a strange design wise, that a bv14 that is basicly EOL looks better next to a speaker that is brand new than the new BV.

To me it feels like there are still good designers at b&o, but there is no design overlord if you will. And to me it seems like that is badly needed when as a company you make so many products that are meant to work together and quite often in the same space too. It feels like a lack of cohesion and therefor no one disigner can push the engineers and it becomes a bit of a shoving match. B&o is still craftsmanship, but it seems to be done a bit on autopilot designwise. I still have much irrational love for the company though, but i gues that is what love is

Barry Santini:

The latest BL90 & BL 50 are LIGHTYEARS AHEAD OF the iconic older units.

Their design language is as yet unfamiliar to fans.

I for one luv them

Barry

I see no similarity in the design language of BeoLab 90 and 50. Look-wise, they could be from two totally different brands. Instead, they have the same audio engineering language.

It is obvious that the designer has tried to tie BL50 into some other B&O products: BV14 and BL18 with wooden lamellas.

In some introductory videos, BL50 had other speaker cover options. One was perforated aluminium, which might unite the look with the Eclipse. Or fabric covers on all three sides, for a fabric covered Eclipse soundbar.

I hope we'll have a BeoLab 30, a successor to BeoLab 3, that caters for people who want smaller speakers. What the design of BeoLab 30 would look like, I can only guess... A rounded triangular shape when seen from the top, most likely, for the acoustic purposes.

Maybe that's the shape of things to come down the BL90 -> BL50 -> BL30 (?) line. In any case, BL3 needs a successor. Something for the average-sized living-spaces.

Mikipedia:

To me it feels like there are still good designers at b&o, but there is no design overlord if you will.

In addition to everything that's been said in this thread which I agree with, I'd like to piggyback on the comment quoted above... there's no cohesive design language either, of the current B&O products. I think there are materials decision being made... wood, etc. but there doesn't seem to be a thread of commonality beyond that. In the David Lewis era, one saw the design familial relationships between the products, each of them had a special look and feel that not only made them different, but they shared a common design language. Todays B&O seems to be lacking in that common thread. Each product is on its own island of sorts.

"Audiophiles" always seem(ed) to say that B&O was more form over function - and we bristle(d) at that accusation... perhaps now that B&O is showing more function over form, we all yearn for something more in that "form." c'est la vie.

Speakers: I don't particularly like the look of the BL50s, I can't say I like the look of the BL90s either. They're big. But with the audio processing they're doing and the sonic achievements inside them, maybe they HAVE to have big homely casings. At least with the 90s the "shrouded" look is a bit elegant. 

Televisions: The Eclipse is, well, a rectangle over a square (one can only do so much with a television's design anyway). I do, however like the wooden fret option for the BV14 / 11.

 

To me it feels like there are still good designers at b&o, but there is no design overlord if you will. And to me it seems like that is badly needed when as a company you make so many products that are meant to work together and quite often in the same space too. It feels like a lack of cohesion and therefor no one disigner can push the engineers and it becomes a bit of a shoving match. B&o is still craftsmanship, but it seems to be done a bit on autopilot designwise. I still have much irrational love for the company though, but i gues that is what love is

While we disagree on the new designs, you find them more attractive than I do, that's a matter of taste and your opinion is as valid as mine on that! Which is good that not everyone is as down on the designs as I am! But you do hit on an extremely valid and important point, in the Jacob Jensen days, and in the David Lewis days, B&O had a very unified design language, you could mix and match their products from several lines successfully and have it look very much all of a piece design wise. I feel they have lost that today, to their disadvantage, and you make a very astute observation that I quite agree with but wasn't able to put into words as eloquently. You could even mix and match the later Jensen stuff with the Lewis stuff successfully, my Beogram looks great sitting next to my BS9000 and BL9s. But lately...I don't find an integrated design language outside of a few products, as in the BV14 and how well it worked with the BL18s.

Sorry KMA & Jeff, I was writing my post and when it came online, I saw that you both had just a few moments earlier posted the same thing - Great minds think alike! :-)

I was just recently thinking about how it seems B&O products haven't been becoming icons lately. What comes to mind are the flagship music systems. The BeoSound 2300 and the BeoSound 9000 are clearly icons of B&O. However, what about the subsequent flagship music systems? The BeoCenter 2 is GORGEOUS and certainly should have become an icon. Yet, B&O failed to keep it updated and relevant -- such as fitting it with a blu-ray player. The BeoSound 5 was hugely expensive. Now, it's terribly dated and repairs are outrageous. I was just quoted $1900 USD to replace the motherboard! Therefore, it's not even worth repairing. Now, the flagship is the Moment. It's been months and B&O haven't addressed the issue of never-ending harvesting and disappearing DLNA music. I certainly don't see the Moment as becoming an icon of B&O.

I went to the Moma site and found what they listed with a search. Probably more in certain exhibits but this was what I found quickly:

David Lewis:

Cona Subwofer
Beolab 6000
Beocord VX 5000

Form 2 headphones (Steve McGugan)

Jacob Jensen:

Beogram 6000
Beomaster 1200
Beocenter 7000
Beomic 2000
Beomaster 6000
Beolit 400
Beovox 2700
Beogram 4002
Beogram 4000
Beomaster 3000-2
Beovox 3700
Beogram 1200
Beolit 1000

Just as a reference point as to what some others have thought design classics. Personally I think the Beocenter 9500, Beosound 9000, Beolab 5, and Beolab 8000s are all iconic.

Jeff:

I went to the Moma site and found what they listed with a search. Probably more in certain exhibits but this was what I found quickly:

David Lewis: Cona Subwofer Beolab 6000 Beocord VX 5000 Form 2 headphones (Steve McGugan) Jacob Jensen: Beogram 6000 Beomaster 1200 Beocenter 7000 Beomic 2000 Beomaster 6000 Beolit 400 Beovox 2700 Beogram 4002 Beogram 4000 Beomaster 3000-2 Beovox 3700 Beogram 1200 Beolit 1000

Just as a reference point as to what some others have thought design classics. Personally I think the Beocenter 9500, Beosound 9000, Beolab 5, and Beolab 8000s are all iconic.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

I agree with that.

Btw i forgot a few things that would've never happened in previous years, unless i missed them like the current designers seem to have done

I was in my b&o dealer today any found some more oddities that would've never passed an eager eye.

- On the wall mounts themselves for the bl3's, the bang and olufsen logo is upside down.

- If you wall mount(high up, cornered)the bl17's the bang and olufsen logo on the speakers themselves if upside down, what the actual #*&@.

- I have a feeling that with david lewis alive, the wall mounts for the bl18's would have actually been pollished in the same way the speaker is. Right now it looks kinda sort of last minute, somewhat out of place in the matte finish.

I gues lately its the little things like this that make me scratch my head.

On the otherhand i do very much appreciate the big leaps in sound quality geof martin seems to bring, that very much excites me.

beojeff:

I was just recently thinking about how it seems B&O products haven't been becoming icons lately. What comes to mind are the flagship music systems. The BeoSound 2300 and the BeoSound 9000 are clearly icons of B&O. However, what about the subsequent flagship music systems? The BeoCenter 2 is GORGEOUS and certainly should have become an icon. Yet, B&O failed to keep it updated and relevant -- such as fitting it with a blu-ray player. The BeoSound 5 was hugely expensive. Now, it's terribly dated and repairs are outrageous. I was just quoted $1900 USD to replace the motherboard! Therefore, it's not even worth repairing. Now, the flagship is the Moment. It's been months and B&O haven't addressed the issue of never-ending harvesting and disappearing DLNA music. I certainly don't see the Moment as becoming an icon of B&O.

Oh beojeff you have taken the words right out of my mouth! One of my biggest disappointments with B&O has been that they did not update the BeoCentre 2. I think this is definitely a design icon product - I love it! Surely they could keep this wonderful design and update it to Blu-Ray and/or 4k? Why would they not do this? I am lost!

You also mention the BeoSound 2300, which is my favourite B&O product ever, and the very first I owned! The amazing moving glass when you reached out towards it! NOBODY else had products like this. B&O were years ahead and set a real benchmark.

The BeoLink 7000 was the very first product that ever caught my attention and introduced me to the brand. A remote control that lifted up towards you when you placed it on a flat service! AMAZING!

What I simply can't 'compute' is how B&O don't recognise (at all its seems) that THESE are the magical things that people love about the brand and why we buy into it. WE WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT! On the one hand I want to ask, "How do we get this message across?" but on the other hand, I am thinking, "But we shouldn't have to! Surely B&O know exactly why people buy their products!" What on earth is going on?!!!

I'll say only this, as a latecomer to B&O

You guys have much more accumulated history with the brand than I do, so the points above design language I can sympathise with.

That troubles me less than the broken software experiences though - and while the lower priced competition has upped their game design wise, that the applies to televisions largely. Speaker wise B&O speakers still look much better to me.

But my main point is that I still don't think I can get a unified video and audio experience with other brands that I can with B&O. I don't want separate non integrated kit in my flat, and I'll pay a decent premium to avoid separation.

If the designs are less iconic, I can live with that, they still look pretty nice objectively.

But the basic proposition and attraction - integrated video and audio - still holds to me, and I'm not in the "sell everything and move on" camp.

And my BL18's get compliments all the time, and let's not ignore the Shape which will be a talking point if I had one installed. So there us still something to their designs.

Mikipedia:

- If you wall mount(high up, cornered)the bl17's the bang and olufsen logo on the speakers themselves if upside down, what the actual #*&@.

Yes, I saw that too, and I saw it on the pictures from the B&O website !

The user positionable logo on the BS Shape avoid this issue, fortunately

 

BAND'OH!:

What I simply can't 'compute' is how B&O don't recognise (at all its seems) that THESE are the magical things that people love about the brand and why we buy into it.

The pop up tweeters of the emperor penguins is certainly a (shy) proof that B&O is aware of that, isn't it ?

And I completely agree about the BC2 !

For some time now I have believed that the future for B&O is in speakers and audio distribution only.

It has been blatantly obvious for many years now, with flat panel TV's, the ability to be stylish and different is extremely limited to the point that to do it becomes almost contrived. All manufacturers offer metal surrounds or else almost invisible surrounds, full integration with the outside world (or else a small inexpensive box can add any omission) and a variety of stand options (easel, tripod etc.) and would not look out of place in any furnishing or architectural magazine shoot. Samsung recently introduced a solid aluminium remote which gets great reviews and is mentioned in the same breath as B&O's own.There is absolutely nowhere to go and no justification in taking someone else's TV and claiming it as your own when, at even the most cursory glance, it is so obvious what you a trying to do and at an unacceptably high premium. 

For audio systems, at the point the requirement for a mechanical player was removed the deal was sealed, the opportunity for B&O magic was all but removed. The BS5 wheels were lovely but useless at navigating a large collection and the Moment was the audio systems "Eclipse moment" whereby the tried to pass off a £100 Android tablet as a bespoke audio system.

What is required is a (bugfree) flexible audio connection hub that can accept and distribute all modern audio formats and a range of stylish, distinctively B&O speakers to cover the range from Sonos equivalent upwards. A significant push should be aimed at the young professional class rather than the close to retirement company directors. If they can't command a decent chunk of the upcoming Apple speaker's market and they are left only to sell BL50's & 90's then I fear for their future.

Puncher:

What is required is a (bugfree) flexible audio connection hub that can accept and distribute all modern audio formats and a range of stylish, distinctively B&O speakers to cover the range from Sonos equivalent upwards. A significant push should be aimed at the young professional class rather than the close to retirement company directors. If they can't command a decent chunk of the upcoming Apple speaker's market and they are left only to sell BL50's & 90's then I fear for their future.

They have. It's called BeoPlay!

moxxey:

They have. It's called BeoPlay!

It is my understanding that BeoPlay will cease to exist after this xmas.

Puncher:

For some time now I have believed that the future for B&O is in speakers and audio distribution only.

It has been blatantly obvious for many years now, with flat panel TV's, the ability to be stylish and different is extremely limited to the point that to do it becomes almost contrived. All manufacturers offer metal surrounds or else almost invisible surrounds, full integration with the outside world (or else a small inexpensive box can add any omission) and a variety of stand options (easel, tripod etc.) and would not look out of place in any furnishing or architectural magazine shoot. Samsung recently introduced a solid aluminium remote which gets great reviews and is mentioned in the same breath as B&O's own.There is absolutely nowhere to go and no justification in taking someone else's TV and claiming it as your own when, at even the most cursory glance, it is so obvious what you a trying to do and at an unacceptably high premium. 

For audio systems, at the point the requirement for a mechanical player was removed the deal was sealed, the opportunity for B&O magic was all but removed. The BS5 wheels were lovely but useless at navigating a large collection and the Moment was the audio systems "Eclipse moment" whereby the tried to pass off a £100 Android tablet as a bespoke audio system.

What is required is a (bugfree) flexible audio connection hub that can accept and distribute all modern audio formats and a range of stylish, distinctively B&O speakers to cover the range from Sonos equivalent upwards. A significant push should be aimed at the young professional class rather than the close to retirement company directors. If they can't command a decent chunk of the upcoming Apple speaker's market and they are left only to sell BL50's & 90's then I fear for their future.

Have to agree with much of this. I think that the only option left in the television field is a high quality motorised stand with sound bar onto which any TV panel can be mounted. The PUC control being put into the sound bar. The Eclipse almost does this but it is specific to one LG panel and for a silly price.

Graham

moxxey:

Puncher:

What is required is a (bugfree) flexible audio connection hub that can accept and distribute all modern audio formats and a range of stylish, distinctively B&O speakers to cover the range from Sonos equivalent upwards. A significant push should be aimed at the young professional class rather than the close to retirement company directors. If they can't command a decent chunk of the upcoming Apple speaker's market and they are left only to sell BL50's & 90's then I fear for their future.

They have. It's called BeoPlay!

Sorry but no - a lot of beoplay stuff has been third party sourced, disjointed, short term stuff (I'll stop short of  calling it worse) - it is not what I would expect of b&o.

StUrrock:

It is my understanding that BeoPlay will cease to exist after this xmas.

So everything in beoplay range is discontinued[:\'(]?

vlohjr1:

So everything in beoplay range is discontinued[:\'(]?

If thats true then I sincerely hope the plan isn't just to rebrand the play stuff as "full" b&o, at that point I will enter discussions with the Trading Standards authorities! 

@Puncher

I also thought about the Eclipse-Moment analogy yesterday, and couldn't agree more that for BeoVisions, Eclipse is what Moment was for BeoSounds.

I never got my head around how poorly B&O's designers integrated the cheap tablet with a B&O exterior. It lacked effort and seemed like it was done as easily & cheaply as possible.

With Moment, B&O got severely hit by software issues. The same happened with Android BeoVisions. So I can kind of understand why they gave up and went the LG way. I simply don't want to pay the premium for it, when it's clearly a cheap & easy solution. Eclipse is not a B&O experience, and should not be sold or priced as one.

You are right that B&O lost much of their chances with mechanical magic when physical media started to die. Avant's speakers and the planet floor stand were great in bringing some of the magic back – and that made the price of the Avant quite acceptable. Where's that magic, that special feel, with Eclipse?

These days the magic – the feel of a special experience – is in the UI/GUI, in the software based interaction. To me it seems it's here where B&O got hit and threw in the towel. As a result, what we have known as the "B&O user experience" is quickly fading. Moment didn't offer it successfully, the Eclipse left it out completely.

The only thing I don't see B&O making compromises with is audio: speakers and the GUI-less music systems. This is where B&O's future lies, in my opinion.

So for the futute of TVs, I hope they produce a BeoSystem 5, and let people add the BeoLabs of choice, and a third-party TV of choice. I see no reason why B&O should not produce a separate soundbar speaker – it is perhaps the only thing that is sorely missing from their speaker lineup.

In collaboration with STBbrackets, they could offer various stand options for neatly adding a 3rd party TV – and let the customer choose the TV of their choice. This would have the added benefit of making a TV upgrade easy, instead of us customers having to take huge financial hits when exchanging the over-the-top priced BeoVisions for newer models. TV prices blummet each year.

If Eclipse is the way to go, B&O should see that way all the way through, separate the TV completely from the sound system and not fake a BeoVision. This way, they would get rid of a loss-making business, and we customers would have more choice to build a TV setup to our liking.

BYOTV – Bring Your Own TV: I see that as the only viable way forward for B&O on the path laid out by Eclipse. It's echoed by many: people on this forum have been asking for an updated BeoSystem 4 – a BeoSystem 5 – for quite some time.

- Your own TV

- VESA compliant stand variations (with the help of STBbrackets, who already are professionals in the mounting business)

- BeoSystem 5, with multiroom & the BS Core built in and upgradeable

- any B&O speakers you like, be it only one – a new B&O soundbar! – or a 7.1 setup

A BeoSystem 5 centric solution would let us fully enjoy the audio engine Geoff Martin has concieved. I'm pretty sure this would also lead to better sales of B&O audio. A win-win.

vikinger:

Have to agree with much of this. I think that the only option left in the television field is a high quality motorised stand with sound bar onto which any TV panel can be mounted. The PUC control being put into the sound bar. The Eclipse almost does this but it is specific to one LG panel and for a silly price.

Graham

You beat me to the punch

I was just writing about the same kind of solution when you posted this!

StUrrock:

It is my understanding that BeoPlay will cease to exist after this xmas.

Are you kidding, or is this really happening? Isn't BeoPlay one of the profit makers for B&O...?

StUrrock:

moxxey:

 

They have. It's called BeoPlay!

 

 

It is my understanding that BeoPlay will cease to exist after this xmas.

This can't be right.. Why do they release new products (still more to come), and new colours?

Where do you get this information from??  

StUrrock:

moxxey:

 

They have. It's called BeoPlay!

 

 

It is my understanding that BeoPlay will cease to exist after this xmas.

This can't be right.. Why do they release new products (still more to come), and new colours?

Where do you get this information from??  

Normann:

This can't be right.. Why do they release new products (still more to come), and new colours?

Where do you get this information from??

A dealer friend of mine said he thinks that the BeoPlay name will disappear as the BeoPlay products are integrated back into the main line of products.

StUrrock:

A dealer friend of mine said he thinks that the BeoPlay name will disappear as the BeoPlay products are integrated back into the main line of products.

So just the BeoPlay branding will disappear but not the products?

Would assume so. Why would they stop producing them. Renaming is a different thing.

I we are talking iconic, i think the following should also be added:

BeoVision MX (such a radical departure from previous CRT TV design)

BeoVision Avant (original CRT version)

BeoSystem 2300/2500 (and successors) 

Beolink 1000 and successor Beo4 (BR One is an fairly bland compared to these)

 

 

If B&O is reabsorbing Play products into the main brand that is scary, there was a rationale for keeping the low end stuff separate. Integrating it, especially as a fair amount of the Play stuff has had very problematic quality and performance issues, is a fairly risky strategy, and seems to indicate their entire business model is shrinking/imploding.

StUrrock:

A dealer friend of mine said he thinks that the BeoPlay name will disappear as the BeoPlay products are integrated back into the main line of products.

I don't know maybe it's speculation on his part?

Perhaps SHEFFIELD or other dealers on the forum may know more?

Or is it just a rumour?

StUrrock:

moxxey:

 

They have. It's called BeoPlay!

It is my understanding that BeoPlay will cease to exist after this xmas.

How come? Do you mean it will shift to the regular B&O branding?

moxxey:

How come? Do you mean it will shift to the regular B&O branding?

Don't know for sure just what a dealer told me, maybe he was just mischief making.