Sign in   |  Join   |  Help
Untitled Page

ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022
READ ONLY FORUM

This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022

 

Considering upgrading to Beosound Core

rated by 0 users
This post has 26 Replies | 0 Followers

ThomasBrorsen
Not Ranked
Posts 9
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
ThomasBrorsen Posted: Sat, Mar 3 2018 12:50 PM

Hi all,

I have a pair of Beolab 18 speakers paired with a Beosound Essence Mk1. I am considering upgrading my setup to a Beosound Core to take advantage of:

  1. S/PDIF connection: With powerlink there is an audible "hiss" at lower volume, assume S/PDIF should help with this
  2. Airplay 2: Essence Mk1 won't support the upcoming Airplay 2

Questions:

  1. Is the S/PDIF out on the Beosound Core and DAC in the Beolab 18 any good?
  2. At times I Airplay at the same time to both my Beolab 18 and Beosound A6 from my Mac. In the current setup the audio sync in this is near perfect. I am concerned if I move my Beolab 18's to S/PDIF that there may be sync issues (I have experienced this with other S/PDIF products). Do you know is B&O have adjusted for S/PDIF "lag" in the Beosound Core to ensure audio sync?

 

Looking forward to your answers.

Best regards,
Thomas. 

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
ThomasBrorsen:

Questions:

1.

Is the S/PDIF out on the Beosound Core and DAC in the Beolab 18 any good?

2.

At times I Airplay at the same time to both my Beolab 18 and Beosound A6 from my Mac. In the current setup the audio sync in this is near perfect. I am concerned if I move my Beolab 18's to S/PDIF that there may be sync issues (I have experienced this with other S/PDIF products). Do you know is B&O have adjusted for S/PDIF "lag" in the Beosound Core to ensure audio sync?

1. I have BL20s on optical from my Core and I am happy with the results

2. I had not heard of s/pdif sync issues; nor do I believe I have heard any on my system. How would you detect sync issues with one source & two speakers ? I can’t quite reproduce your A6 configuration ... are the 18s and the A6 collocated?

PS I daisy-chain the optical of the two speakers - I believe there is a clean pass through of the signal: no double handling.

BeoNut since '75

ThomasBrorsen
Not Ranked
Posts 9
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

Hi Elephant,

Happy to hear that the audio quality is good.

The 18s and A6 are in adjacent rooms, so any audio sync issues would be an annoyance. Anyone else have a setup like this?

Best, Thomas.

beotex
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 86
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
beotex replied on Thu, Mar 8 2018 9:27 PM
I don’t have the same setup, but I have a Core connected via optical out to a Sonance amp and outdoor speakers. I just checked the settings on the app and see you can adjust delays via a few different methods. Here is one of the screenshots.

ThomasBrorsen
Not Ranked
Posts 9
OFFLINE
Bronze Member

Elephant,

 

See from other posts that you have a homepod. Could I convince you to set it up next to your BL 20s and airplay to the HomePod and BL 20s simultaniously? This should be able to test any potential lag stemming from the optical connection.

Best, Thomas.

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Fri, Mar 9 2018 11:06 AM
ThomasBrorsen:

Elephant,

See from other posts that you have a homepod. Could I convince you to set it up next to your BL 20s and airplay to the HomePod and BL 20s simultaniously? This should be able to test any potential lag stemming from the optical connection.

Best, Thomas.

Yes I will do that for you on Saturday.

Since my post and before today’s updates I did try a convoluted test:

1. Core - optical - BL20

2. Core - lan cable to LAN switch

3. Essence mk ll - plan cable to same LAW switch

4. Essence mk ll - powerlink - BL11 - BL6000 daisy chain

I played Deezer on the Core.

I used the B&O App to join the Essence to the Core.

I could discern NO delay.

But my ears / brain is not as accurate as many people on this forum.

Still given the screenshots of the ability to adjust perhaps this and HomePod test (tomorrow) will give you some confidence ?

BeoNut since '75

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Sat, Mar 10 2018 7:34 AM
Thomas I regret to report that I could hear a lag when I used my MacBook Pro running OSX 10.11.6 iTunes 12.7.3.46 ...

I was seated with the MacBook closer to the HomePod (1 metre) than the Core (3 metres) and with my head positioned about equidistant between the HomePod (left ear) and the left channel BeoLab 20.

Sad there was a discernible but unmeasurable difference ... the BL20 was a fraction earlier than the HomePod.

That is, the lag appeared to be in the HomePod’s processing ....

BeoNut since '75

Millemissen
Top 10 Contributor
Flensborg, Denmark
Posts 14,680
OFFLINE
Gold Member

elephant:

That is, the lag appeared to be in the HomePod’s processing ....

Now, that is interesting....on a sidenote!

Looking forward to see tests with AirPlay 2 multiroom to different AirPlay devices.

How will they handle this delay due to heavy processing in the HoneyPod?

 

elephant - could you try airplaying (from the Mac) to the HPod and to an ordinary AirPlay receiver/device?

I wonder if there is a time difference there too?

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Millemissen
Top 10 Contributor
Flensborg, Denmark
Posts 14,680
OFFLINE
Gold Member

P.S. I suppose your first test included the BL20 connected via optical out to the BL20, which was the reason for expecting the 20’s to play later.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Millemissen
Top 10 Contributor
Flensborg, Denmark
Posts 14,680
OFFLINE
Gold Member

’....the BL20’s connected to the Core....’.

it should have been ;-0

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Sat, Mar 10 2018 10:34 AM
Millemissen:

elephant - could you try airplaying (from the Mac) to the HPod and to an ordinary AirPlay receiver/device?

Do you mean an A1 or an A2 ?

Sure - no problem !

Give me 48 hours :)

BeoNut since '75

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Sat, Mar 10 2018 10:37 AM
Millemissen:

P.S. I suppose your first test included the BL20 connected via optical out to the BL20, which was the reason for expecting the 20’s to play later.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Correct - optical from Core to 1st BL20 and then optical to 2nd BL20.

However remember in my pure B&O world test there was no delay via the join function.

However the HomePod test was not equivalent as it was one source to two targets via AirPlay.

BeoNut since '75

CB
Top 75 Contributor
> You are Here <
Posts 1,762
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
CB replied on Sat, Mar 10 2018 1:50 PM
elephant:
Give me 48 hours

So now we know where the lag comes from Big Smile
elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Sun, Mar 11 2018 9:18 AM
CB:

So now we know where the lag comes from

Thank you for reminding me of my duties/ promise...

Otherwise the lag would have been longer !

BeoNut since '75

CB
Top 75 Contributor
> You are Here <
Posts 1,762
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
CB replied on Sun, Mar 11 2018 9:29 AM

elephant:

Thank you for reminding me of my duties/ promise...

G day Ed Smile

I’m sure everybody here is aware of what you bring to this forum ! Lets have a Party !!!

Having someone being able to answer others questions (since such a long time) by doing tests on its own setup is just invaluable!

I think it’s worth the wait, 48h or whatever the time you give to us Yes - thumbs up

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Sun, Mar 11 2018 4:10 PM

Relax friend - I was not offended !

 

I had genuinely forgotten MM's request Sad

BeoNut since '75

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Sun, Mar 11 2018 4:33 PM

Millemissen:

elephant - could you try airplaying (from the Mac) to the HPod and to an ordinary AirPlay receiver/device?

I wonder if there is a time difference there too?

So MM this is not quite the test you asked for ... I will do the that too with at least an A1 and maybe an A2.

 

However I was thinking back to the original test ... and thinking we should not be surprised; it is after all what NL was designed to do:

Deeper > Core - join - Essence

                 ^BL20           ^BL11+BL6K

Yes, the audio paths were different, but none the less it was all B&O.

 

So my mind came up with another combination:

Mac Airplay > Core ^BL20

+

Mac Airplay > Essence ^BL11K+BL6K

 

The above test isolates the two B&O systems to their own worlds ... both (hopefully) simultaneously receiving an Airplay signal from the Macbook Pro, and both processing independently .... one a daisy chain path using optical; the other a daisy chain path using PowerLink, and through 3 speakers

 

Admittedly I only listened carefully to the Left side ... so therefore I was comparing Left BL20 with BL11+Left BL6K.

 

And the answer ... seemingly no delays ... on certain notes if felt the emphasis came from one speaker or the other, however in general I seemed to be hearing a common sound :)

 

Now later in the day we try some BlueTooth Airplay, since the above was WiFi Airplay !

BeoNut since '75

CB
Top 75 Contributor
> You are Here <
Posts 1,762
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
CB replied on Sun, Mar 11 2018 6:40 PM
elephant:

Relax friend - I was not offended !

I had genuinely forgotten MM's request

BeoNut since '75

I know (I guess...) but from time to time, thanks are necessary Smile
elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Mon, Mar 12 2018 3:13 AM

elephant:
Millemissen:

elephant - could you try airplaying (from the Mac) to the HPod and to an ordinary AirPlay receiver/device?

Do you mean an A1 or an A2 ?

Sure - no problem !

Give me 48 hours :)

I should have known (remembered) that Airplay and Bluetooth don't mix.

So the A1 is certainly pure BlueTooth ... as is the A2.

So yes, I can pair them to my MacBook, but I can't simultaneously AirPlay to anything and send a BlueTooth signal.

I have to connect the BlueTooth as being the local speaker, and when I do that I can only have the local (blue toothed A1) or have Airplay BL11+BL6Ks & BL20s ... but not both.

 

So Dear MM, I don't see how I can meet your request, other than to AirPlay the HomePod with the Essence instead of with the Core.

I am not sure of the value of that, given that I did do the separate Airplay in parallel to those two speaker sees ....

 

So MM, given my setup, could you be a bit more specific about what (and how as I may be missing / assuming something) you want me to do the test ?

Thanks !

BeoNut since '75

Millemissen
Top 10 Contributor
Flensborg, Denmark
Posts 14,680
OFFLINE
Gold Member

@elephanth

No hurry - I don’t mind the ‘lag’ - I’ll also be here in 48 hours ;-)))

Since it was ‘on a side note’ - ‘off topic’ so to speak, I am patient.

 

What I wanted to know is, if there is any lag between the sound coming from the HomePod and e.g. a M3/5 or a Playmaker (any device with AirPlay support), when fed simultaneously (via AirPlay) from the Mac.

That is, if the processing going on in the HPod introduces a lag to the AirPlay stream by itself?

Hope this is clear.

 

By the way I second the posts of other members - you certainly do a great job here with your testing - kudos!

 

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Mon, Mar 12 2018 10:25 AM
Millemissen:

What I wanted to know is, if there is any lag between the sound coming from the HomePod and e.g. a M3/5 or a Playmaker (any device with AirPlay support), when fed simultaneously (via AirPlay) from the Mac.

OK - understood & thank you.

It will be another 48 hours as I look after our grandchildren tomorrow.

However as an hypothesis from the two tests:

1. Core and HomePod = lag

2. Core and Essence* = no lag

I would conclude

3. Essence* (PlayMaker 2generations on) and HomePod = lag

However I will verify that Smile

*my Essence is a mk ll

BeoNut since '75

Roger
Top 200 Contributor
Norway
Posts 417
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
Roger replied on Wed, Mar 14 2018 8:54 AM

Maybe the HomePod behavior will change once the AirPlay 2.0 sw is launched? Also, the rumor has it that 2.0 will buffer complete songs - should be possible to sync all devices in a multi room setup perfectly if they all used AirPlay 2.0?

Roger    

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Wed, Mar 14 2018 11:59 AM
Roger:

Maybe the HomePod behavior will change once the AirPlay 2.0 sw is launched? Also, the rumor has it that 2.0 will buffer complete songs - should be possible to sync all devices in a multi room setup perfectly if they all used AirPlay 2.0?

Roger

If that’s what is in AP 2.0 then it would be terrific.

Today’s tests have left me a little confused !

More to come ...

BeoNut since '75

elephant
Top 10 Contributor
AU
Posts 8,219
OFFLINE
Founder
elephant replied on Wed, Mar 14 2018 12:07 PM
elephant:

However as an hypothesis from the two tests:

1. Core and HomePod = lag

2. Core and Essence* = no lag

I would conclude

3. Essence* (PlayMaker 2generations on) and HomePod = lag

However I will verify that

*my Essence is a mk ll

Well !!!

What can I say ?

The results of test #3 appeared to ruin my hypothesis !

I even went back to test #1 ... and became more confused.

For the music I was playing there was either no lag - or a lag that was almost imperceptible to my ears Sad

At times, depending on the pitch of the note, the imperceptible lag seemed to swap sides Surprise

My new hypothesis is that the HomePod’s lag is variable ! And dependent upon the types of music being played Embarrassed

More testing with careful notes tomorrow [:\'(]

BeoNut since '75

Millemissen
Top 10 Contributor
Flensborg, Denmark
Posts 14,680
OFFLINE
Gold Member

Roger:

Maybe the HomePod behavior will change once the AirPlay 2.0 sw is launched? Also, the rumor has it that 2.0 will buffer complete songs - should be possible to sync all devices in a multi room setup perfectly if they all used AirPlay 2.0?

Roger    

Yes, but it won’t change the delay in the HomePod, which comes from the processing of the sound there.

(Which. - by the way - could be variable, according to how it has to process.)

To have syncronized sound from all devices would mean to balance this delay in the other (2.0) devices to what is played.

It might be possible, but difficult, I guess. And the big question is: how noticable will that be in the end.

Note! The release of AirPlay 2.0 is heavily delayed, maybe they are struggling with problems like this?

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

mbee
Top 75 Contributor
Paris, France
Posts 1,842
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
mbee replied on Wed, Mar 14 2018 1:01 PM

Millemissen:
Note! The release of AirPlay 2.0 is heavily delayed, maybe they are struggling with problems like this?

Interesting to see that the most high tech company in the world has some problems to create a multiroom system... We wait for years to come from ML to NL, but all we can see is that the solution was functional from day 1 without sync issues.

CB
Top 75 Contributor
> You are Here <
Posts 1,762
OFFLINE
Bronze Member
CB replied on Wed, Mar 14 2018 4:31 PM
Yes - thumbs up
Page 1 of 1 (27 items) | RSS