Advice Beolab 90 and Eclipse 65 set up

Hello all Now that there is a new B&O dealership in Auckland I have taken the plunge and purchased Beolab 90, Eclipse 65 with my existing Beolab 17 as rear speakers. Can I ask if there is a viewing/listening distance you recommend for this set up. My dealer (very helpful) suggests 3.5 metres. I have contacted B&O who did not add much more. Steve from Sounds Heavenly has kindly advised on cabling. Just wondered if there were any tips from existing users. Many thanks Jay

Hi, 

identical gear except BL3s instead of 17s.

i would have thought the gear in question has sufficient configurability to do what you want?

My BL90s are 5m apart and I can just about do the equilateral triangulation thing to my sitting position. 

The screen is huge from approx 3.5m away. I would have thought that is close enough and if I could pull back more....I would do.

I toe the BL90s to approx 0.5m either side f the apex. No reason for this except it sounds “better” to me. 

 

I would suggest you you don’t bother with your dealers opinion. Bother with your own. You seem to have earnt it. Do what you fancy.

Forgot to add.......

my personal taste is to kill the Soundbar sound in all modes. I find that the bar is very good - in the absence of the BL90s. 

Music Source mode is BL90s narrow

Video Source mode is BL90s / BL3s in wide mode.

Startup mode is PITA so kill it if you can

Thanks:)

I’m digging out the basement for this av room and want to site the floor boxes accurately before they pour the concrete (hide wires). Hence being so anal about the positioning now.

Good tip about viewing distance for Eclipse (3.5m might be short). I’m meeting interior designer next week and will see if we can pull the sofa back. I’ll also go back to dealership and measure my comfortable distance. 

I love stereo for music but quite like the centre for speech on movies. Am I correct in thinking you don’t use soundbar for any listening or have I misunderstood?

kind regards 

Jay

Hi Jay,

Welcome to Beoworld!  That is a superb setup, as mentioned above please go for what works for you in your home to get the best from the great sound of these speakers.

If you would like to post a sketch or photo of your room, then we can give you ideas for getting the best from the speaker positioning.

Kind regards, Steve.

Sorry tried to copy floorplan , didn’t work. Will try again on computer not iPad ASAP.

Jayman:

Am I correct in thinking you don’t use soundbar for any listening or have I misunderstood?

You are correct. Soundbar off in all modes.

I find the sound distracting and unnatural compared to the BL90s forcing a phantom centre channel.

Switch the BL90s off and use the Soundbar...it sounds very good in my opinion. Its just the two dont go together for me.

 

That’s just so wrong to suggest. You got it all wrong. Learn to set things up before you give some advise.

Esax:

That’s just so wrong to suggest. You got it all wrong. Learn to set things up before you give some advise.

Why would that be wrong to suggest? To me it makes perfect sense.

To me, it’s critical to ensure the timber of the sound is seamless as it pans around the room. If you have any discontinuity in the sound it tends to stand out. If you have a calibration disk, the sound of white noise should be consistent as it pans the room. If not, you need to make some changes in the sound controls or the speakers.

BEOVOX141:

Why would that be wrong to suggest? To me it makes perfect sense.

Why does it make sense?

Well technically you made a claim that needs to be substantiated...

But never mind Ill go first,- The 90 has no clue about the what the Eclipse speaker is doing (e.g ABL), which makes it impossible for the two of the to work to work in tandem. No look up table will fix that! 

BEOVOX141:

The 90 has no clue about the what the Eclipse speaker is doing (e.g ABL), which makes it impossible for the two of the to work to work in tandem.

You mean: ‘they don’t have a clue what a BV7 is doing’ 🤥

MM

so, it appears the real question is whether or not the center array of speakers and black magic of the eclipse is a satisfactory partner to the bl90 flagship speakers in a 5.1 setup and, if so, how the he** do you set it up? surely there is a beoexpert to answer that without the slings and arrows. 

Setup is easy, you go to speaker roles and just turn the center speaker off. I personally find that the eclipse is sort of just on the edge of being good enough for the 50's. Now that mine are much further apart in my new situation I did manage to get the full range drivers to do center duties too with out creating an echo and that has significantly improved the eclipse' sound. So now I have Left:50 Center left: full range -3db Center = 0 Center right: full range -3db and Right:50. In the standard config where the eclipse shuts off both full range drivers it's fairly boomy compared to the 50's and now with the full ranges active again it sort of spruces up the midrange and treble quite a bit and that is much better when paired with 50's in my opinion. I do too use a surround speaker group where the center is completely turned off as well and after 30 seconds you don't notice that the center isn't playing anymore. It's a preferences thing and all things considered this is with the 50's. Why not make both speaker groups and see what you like? The phantom center works really great, but if you don't like it, nobody is forcing you

Once again, a great explanation Mikipidia and thank you for that. My new 50s should arrive this week, and while mine will be connected to a BV7, I really like learning about the settings and setup with an Eclipse.

A couple of months ago there was a thread with a somewhat similar subject - called ‘Big speakers with a small tv’

Maybe there is some inspiration there:

https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/36533/273033.aspx#273033

My take on this.....if you sit perfectly positioned and alone, you can do well without a center channel - but, if.....

 

I figure, that this is also a matter of tonal balance.

Practically all midrange drivers in the speakers are about the same size.

Of course a BL50/90 is able to play louder in the low frequecy region (if you turn up the volume).

But if you have proper bass management, you should not have to worry using the speakers of an Eclipse as one center channel.

For everything that has a dedicated center channel in the mix I’d go with those speakers set up as a center channel.

Otherwise - following the suggestions of Miki - set up different speaker groups and have a listen for yourself (and your family/friends).

Play with these settings - the preamp in an Eclipse with the True Image processing is excellent and gives you lots of option to find the right solution for you.

 

 MM

Just catching up on missed posts.......

 

Well what a pile of froth this one is? 

I will resort back to what I originally suggested to the OP........

 

Your Gear......You Bought It.......... Your preference.....You do what you want to with it.

What the hell as it got to do with any so-call self professed experts who think they can dictate how your own personal gear is set up?

 

 

BEOVOX141:

Well technically you made a claim that needs to be substantiated...

But never mind Ill go first,- The 90 has no clue about the what the Eclipse speaker is doing (e.g ABL), which makes it impossible for the two of the to work to work in tandem. No look up table will fix that!

Sorry for the google translate. Feel free to challenge me.

Set the speakers for both music and film on beovision.

The first thing to do is set up the speakers for music. If possible, set the speakers at the same distance from the TV and from the rear wall. Measure an equilateral triangle and twist the speakers so they hit just behind the center seat. It is important for the movie experience to turn the speakers. Otherwise, the right seat gets too much of the right sound and left too much of the left sound.

After that, you set the distance on all speakers in the TV menu. If you have beolab 50 or 90 then it is better to set the delay of 8.6m to compensate for the low latency of 25ms in the app and the rest in the TV menu. It will be easier then. Make sure you have the phantom center in the middle of the TV. You can also check it with audio / video sync test on youtube. On my beolab 50 master I had to add 0.1m. Had the same problem on beolab 20 that I left back. Not happy with the sound.

The next step is to set the sound level. It is easiest to do this with db meter app. If you set the front ends too high, they take over the center. Then the sound image is distorted. It’s sounds like latancy problem. There is a reason why one cannot adjust the level of the center. The center is the most important speaker in video setup. It is also equally important to have the right level of the surround speakers.

My set up. It’s all about setting the right/closest speaker in beovision meny and the right distance and levels.

Esax:

Sorry for the google translate. Feel free to challenge me.

Set the speakers for both music and film on beovision.

The first thing to do is set up the speakers for music. If possible, set the speakers at the same distance from the TV and from the rear wall. Measure an equilateral triangle and twist the speakers so they hit just behind the center seat. It is important for the movie experience to turn the speakers. Otherwise, the right seat gets too much of the right sound and left too much of the left sound.

After that, you set the distance on all speakers in the TV menu. If you have beolab 50 or 90 then it is better to set the delay of 8.6m in the app and the rest in the TV. It will be easier then. Make sure you have the phantom center in the middle of the TV. You can also check it with audio / video sync test on youtube. On my beolab 50 master I had to add 0.1m. Had the same problem on beolab 20 that I left back. Not happy with the sound.

The next step is to set the sound level. It is easiest to do this with db meter app. If you set the front ends too high, they take over the center. Then the sound image is distorted. It’s sounds like latancy problem. There is a reason why one cannot adjust the level of the center. The center is the most important speaker in video setup. It is also equally important to have the right level of the surround speakers.

My set up. It’s all about setting the right/closest speaker in beovision meny and the right distance and levels.

Beovision 7-55 MK1 red, Beolab 10 red. Beolab 50, all black. Beolab 17 broken ice. Beolab transmitter. Apple tv4 and apple express 2.

Thank you for the post and pictures of the settings on your BV7. Should be very helpful to me when my 50s arrive and I connect them to my BV7.

Hi All

Many thanks for your considered responses, sorry for delayed post.

I have checked viewing distances for eclipse and 3.5metres is about right.

Please see attached plan form Interior designer/architect. I'm a bit concerned the sofa may not let the right speaker breathe but this may not be an issue with the 90s DSP...

Totally agree that this personal preference is paramount.

The issue in NZ is availability, so I have bought these having only listened to  (and been amazed) in another country and just wanted a little initial advice wrto positioning etc.

I am a dedicated B&O fan (Avant 55, A9, A6, Beolab 17s) but this is a whole new league for me!!

 

 

cheers

Jay

 

Hi Jayman,

 

Iam sure you'll be fine, I had my 50's roughly equally as close to what seems like was a taller chair and the sound gets compensated for after measuring. Plus the lower drivers are bass only so it's very hard to tell where it's coming from. Looks like a great place! Just make sure you toe in the 90's to your main seating spot

 

And show us some pictures once it's all done!

Jayman:

I have checked viewing distances for eclipse and 3.5metres is about right.

Please see attached plan form Interior designer/architect. I'm a bit concerned the sofa may not let the right speaker breathe but this may not be an issue with the 90s DSP...

Totally agree that this personal preference is paramount.

 

Looks good. I would not worry about the DSP bit. I have one unit in a tighter space, and one almost in a corridor. Works great. I would see the only thing you need to put some attention to will be the beam direction control (fine tuning) to get the sweet spot precisely right for you chosen (favourite) listening position. Narrow mode seems to me to be as wide as my shoulders before I detect roll-off and a change in the image. 

It is very easy to tweak.