ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello from a 55 yo Chicagoan that has admired B&O since 1970s, but purchased my first product of there's last night; a fairly mint 8002 turntable last night of of Craigslist. Cosmetically, almost perfect; dust cover is amazingly (nearly) scratch/haze free, works flawlessly & silently. Only negative is that it came w/a MMC4 cartridge vs. the #2 that...I believe...came standard. But it works/sounds great.
I was looking at all kinds of turntables the last few months, mostly vintage & new Thorens automatics, vintage Denon automatics, maybe a new U-Turn manual. But the spot I'll have it in for a while demanded a) a very low-profile tt, as my center-channel speaker is about 5" above the console top, and b) it had to look nice & have some wood on it to fit into the decor.
For now it's running thru my yamaha 1050 AV receiver & KEF 301 on-wall speakers, but I just tested the Revox B-150 integrated amp that's been in my attic & garage the last 20 years, and it's running great, so I'm keeping an eye out for a pair of nice, vintage European bookshelves to create a 'Vintage European" setup in my office. That, or I'll sell the Revox and get a MMC2.
I did my homework; I'm not going to pepper you folks with a bunch of questions but I have a few.
Thanks for your help!
Dean
OK, I've run thru several albums, and there are few issues that rise beyond "which remote..."
Mainly, I seem to get 'worbles'...momentary, barely noticable sporadic drops in speed/change in timbre about every 20-30 seconds or so. I'm thinking/hoping it might be a friction thing, that I should lubricate the bearing (other stuff too?) a bit?.
BTW, there are 3 small, rectangular pieces of foam rubber that seem to be professionally placed on the back of the platter, so I'm assuming they're supposed to be there; am I right?
Also, the cover is a little askew; when closing, the RH side rubs against the silver-cover section a bit, and when the RH front corner is down, the LH corner is up about 1/8"-1/16"...just a tiny bit. How do I adjust the cover?
I think I want to pop the top off & look under the plinith (maybe do that lubrication and/or check out other stuff that you recommend); is that as easy as it sounds; remove the springs from the leaf springs, shift the top (or drive mech) to the right pop off the top section (flipping it over to the right of the unit?) I've heard reattaching the springs is tricky, but not impossible, right? I'll check the tutorials I saw, but want to check with actual people who have done this before diving in.
All 'n all, I'm still happy; all functions are working perfectly, I unlocked the suspension & leveled it to 2mm platter-above-platform height. Recaps, other stuff...I'm sure I'll have to do it sometime, maybe soon, but I'm committed to making this my table of choice because it looks perfect where it is; I can't think of anything else that would do so.
Thanks!!Dean
Hi and welcome to Beoworld.
I have quite a few Beogram 8000 and 8002 turntables. For reference on what it takes to open one up and what should and should not be present take a look at one of my first Beogram 8002 restoration projects. They were designed to be low maintenance for an owner. Opening up and working on them was expected to be done by B&O technicians. Of course that isn't always easy to find these days but I did want you to be aware that messing with the dust cover and opening up the Beogram could cause a lot of problems if you don't know what you are doing.
Regarding some of your questions...1. The B&O remote control of the Beogram 800x turntables is via a B&O receiver like a Beomaster 6000 or 8000. The turntable itself does not have a remote control receiver. It just has two extra pins on the DIN socket for the commands from a Beomaster that supports it.
2. The tonearm compartment has the space you refer to as storage for a spare MMC cartridge.
3. ....don't know the answer to that one. I connect my Beograms to either Beomaster receivers or to Yamaha preamplifiers. The non-B&O amplifiers have never had a problem playing them in my experience.
4. The original MMC4 is a nice elliptical cartridge. The MMC3 was supposed to be a little better while the MMC2 and MMC1 were the B&O top of the line cartridges. I typically use MMC2 cartridges with my Beogram 800x turntables. The Soundsmith versions are fine cartridges. Some people say they sound slightly different than the original B&O cartridges but I guess my ears are not that discerning.
There are rectangular strips of foam rubber on the underside of the top platter.
While these turntables are still modern looking they are over thirty years old. Most of them need some electronic restoration to return to perfect working order. Applying oil to the parts inside will not restore them. I have restored a bunch of Beogram turntables from 400x to 800x types where part of the restoration task was to clean up a bunch of excess oil that owners squirted inside thinking that would fix their problems.
The Beogram turntables do require proper lubrication but not much. The turntable speeds are electronically controlled via optical sensors where a microcomputer constantly monitors and makes corrections. If that is not working well then it is likely due to a sensor problem or deteriorating electronic components (i.e. electrolytic capacitors usually). Just so you know, the microcomputer device is rarely at fault. It is usually the sensor information it receives (or doesn't receive) that cause problems. The microcomputer chip also is no longer available except from donor Beogram units so please don't mess with that.
None of that information is intended to scare you. In fact I have yet to come across a Beogram 800x turntable that couldn't return to full functionality (providing there wasn't some severe physical damage).
About the cover again...The cover should really not be removed. People often break the plastic tabs that keep it attached so if that is the case with yours then you may have to do a repair. See this recent thread regarding that problem.
-sonavor
A couple of other things...If the Beogram control logic is having problems locking in the platter speed then you will hear the pulsing of the electronic drive. That shouldn't occur during normal use but if it is happening then something isn't working right.
Just to double-check, you do have the floating chassis released for record play right? Those are the three screws under the top platter that lock down or release the floating chassis.
Thanks! I'm not looking to open up a can of worms, but to me these small 'lags' seems/sounds like something causes a momentary 'drag' on the platter for a fraction of a second, then the auto-speed-correction kicks in & normalizes things immediately. So I'm trying to assess & address any potential 'physical problems that could be causing this before diving into electronics (or committing to having it fully refurbed). Friction would do that, thus I asked about lubrication points.
The table came with the platter 'locked' with those 3 tabs. I disengaged them, moved the rotating hole-things, screwed down the screws & everything's floating (had to adjust the platter height a bit). The cover is pretty dam mint, and I plan to keep it that way. But it should sit flat and not 'scrape' (albeit gently) the RH section of table when I close it. I'm wondering if this could be caused by something that's torquing the 'chassis' a bit. Because when the platter is removed and you look at the seam in the RH side of the curved 'hole' where the platter goes, there's a small, yellow piece of insulation trapped between the black plastic 'frame and the silver metal piece on the right (NOT the door). It's really stuck, and it's creating a gap in that seam, which is why I think it MIGHT be a factor in the cover not closing properly It's tight...I can't shove it thru with a spudger, but didn't push to hard to try, either (nor would I want a loose piece of whatever-it-is rattling around inside the electronics section!). I'll try to take a pic of that after work, when I get home.
And finally, I want to open it up to see if perhaps the previous owner (or owner before that) already replaced the caps! I'd feel silly bringing/sending the unit in for a rehab, only to learn that one was all that was done 5-10 years ago! I'm a handy guy, i.e., I recently took apart, diagnosed & repaired a $3K Jura superautomatic coffee machine. And I won't be doing any soldering/electronic stuff myself; I just want to open it up to address any potential 'physical' problems & maybe take a few pics to show you (and get rid of that 'stuck thing'.
Finally, looking FAR down the road...hopefully; anyone have suggestions for vintage B&O repair in the Chicago/Milwaukee region?
Thanks again, all!!
I think Chicago was the main, US headquarters back when your Beogram was produced. There may be some technicians from that period up there still doing work.
Look over that Beogram 8002 link I sent you carefully. There are some photos in there on how to open up the Beogram to its service position. As I said, it is a little tricky but you said you are handy so you should be able to do it. You should be able to investigate any platter scraping by just lifting off the top platter. The black subplatter should turn effortlessly without any obstruction.
The small bursts of speed deviations typically comes from intermittent selfoscillation in the voltage regulators (bad decoupling capacitors - andbad capacitors in general), but can also come from an intermittently leaking diode in the speed control system or bad solder jointsat the CPU socket - and bad connections in general - there's usually many of those in these decks if not already restored.A friction related issue would come for every revolution. The above won't.
The short answer - have the Beogram thoroughly restored. All decks of this series will need it by now.
Martin
deandome: Hello from a 55 yo Chicagoan that has admired B&O since 1970s, but purchased my first product of there's last night; a fairly mint 8002 turntable last night of of Craigslist. Cosmetically, almost perfect; dust cover is amazingly (nearly) scratch/haze free, works flawlessly & silently. Only negative is that it came w/a MMC4 cartridge vs. the #2 that...I believe...came standard. But it works/sounds great. I was looking at all kinds of turntables the last few months, mostly vintage & new Thorens automatics, vintage Denon automatics, maybe a new U-Turn manual. But the spot I'll have it in for a while demanded a) a very low-profile tt, as my center-channel speaker is about 5" above the console top, and b) it had to look nice & have some wood on it to fit into the decor. For now it's running thru my yamaha 1050 AV receiver & KEF 301 on-wall speakers, but I just tested the Revox B-150 integrated amp that's been in my attic & garage the last 20 years, and it's running great, so I'm keeping an eye out for a pair of nice, vintage European bookshelves to create a 'Vintage European" setup in my office. That, or I'll sell the Revox and get a MMC2. I did my homework; I'm not going to pepper you folks with a bunch of questions but I have a few. What remote controls work with this tt? What is supposed to go in the cartridge-shaped space below the 45 adapter under the silver cover?, A second cartridge? Stylus protector? If/when I get a reasonably priced phono preamp (eyeing Schlitt Mani), what gain-capacity do I want to reach? 40-50-60?? Are the Soundsmith SMMC3 & MMC2 cartridges both a huge step up from my stock MMC4, andor from each other? Thanks for your help! Dean
1. The 8002 works with a Beomaster 8000/6000 on the 2 extra pins in the data cable that connects them on the back. If using a Beomaster 8000 which is the prefered the tablet style remote will work great. If using with a Beomaster 6000 you will not always find remote option installed as that was optional at the time in the early '80s. If it's installed the Beomaster 6000 do use a tablet style with different colours than a 8000 but works just as well.
2. A 45 rpm disc to be used for singles and a cartridge holder for a spare.
3. As long as you buy quality components you will not find much gain in sound performance.
4. Soundsmith has the rights to produce B&O pickups. They are at least as good as the original though do not look like them and its up to your ears to tell the difference. A Beogram 8002 should have a MMC1 as that was what it was sold with new. Get one of these and work form there.
Due to age a qualified service would be in order in any case.