ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
For some time I am using Roon Labs and I am fascinated how it makes a huge music library visible and accessible. I never had so much fun to rediscover my music collection. Even a live lifetime membership of 499 USD is not inexpensive, in my eyes the software is every dollar worth.
My set up:
1) Roon Labs server / core => Synology NAS DS718+
2) Roon Labs remote /control => different iPads / iPhones with Roon Labs app
3) Streaming protocol => Airplay
4) Roon Labs bridge / output => airplay speakers (Beosound 35, Beosound Shape, several Raspberry PIs + HifiBerry DAC connected to Beolabs and other brand speakers)
5) Music streaming service => Deezer, but I am thinking to move to TIDAL
I would love to use the Beosound Moment as Roon Labs control and output. Because since using Roon Labs the Beosound Moment gets dusty in the corner. And in case B&O provides access to the system it should be not too difficult to install Roon Labs output (Linux version available) and Roon Labs control (Android version available) on the Moment (SoundHeart and Jukebox). To give the Moment a second live.
Who else has Roon Labs experience and how is your set-up?
When the Olive One manufacturer appeared to have stopped developing its software to embrace several promised features, a number of disappointed owners attempted to set up a group with the intention of continuing the development of the player using Roon. I believe that this failed due to a lack of access to the Olive's operating system.
Graham
Interesting - am seriously thinking about going the Roon route.
Granted it isn't for the more casual music listener, but I'm giving it a lot of thought, for 2 reasons.
1.The Moment / B&O app isn't a very good experience, and neither are the Deezer / Tidal apps great at discovery. Roon from what I can see does an incredibly good job of integrating local libraries with streaming, and for this and other reasons I can see why its known as the audiophile platform of choice.
2. Want to introduce a higher end streamer / DAC into my main setup - most are capable as Roon endpoints. This would be wired to the network. And I like the server can stream to Airplay speakers too.
Glad to hear that you're enjoying it - the feedback elsewhere also seems to be incredibly positive.
I use Tidal - there's a growing amount of albums available in MQA (or what they call Masters) format.
I will need a Roon Server though, as my QNAP NAS isn't capable enough to run Roon really.
Alsfeld:3) Streaming protocol => Airplay
Hi Alsfeld
I have used/still using Roon now for several years. Started to listen to the music i have on my PC which is connected to a Dragonfly Red/Jitterbug from Adioquest and BeoPlay H8. I have a membership to Tidal so I have the possibillity to listen to Master/MQA files.
In my livingroom i have a Beocenter 2 / Beolab 8000 and I have connected a Bluesound Node 2 streamer to the AUX input of the Beocenter 2. Using the Node 2 gives me a lot of possibillyties i.e. as a Roon endpoint, playing HiRes files incl. MQA, Airplay2 (Node2i), internet radio stations etc and many others.
You can connect Node2 via RCA or optical cable. I'm using the BluOS app / Roon App for daily use and they give me a good overwiev.
So my experience with Roon ( Bluesound ) is excellent.
Don't hesitate if you have further questions.....
Kind regards from Denmark
Lasse
I am using Roon with Chromecast as a Roon endpoint for B&O, working fine.
https://blog.roonlabs.com/chromecast-support-in-roon
Also streaming Qobuz via Chromecast and Roon for B&O.
https://blog.roonlabs.com/roon-1-6/
My experience with this setting is good.
https://youtu.be/N5tnidzkDtE
BeoFrederic:Does Roon now support AirPlay 2? Or is that irrelevant in a Roon environment?
vikinger: When the Olive One manufacturer appeared to have stopped developing its software to embrace several promised features, a number of disappointed owners attempted to set up a group with the intention of continuing the development of the player using Roon. I believe that this failed due to a lack of access to the Olive's operating system.
Perhaps B&O would be more supportive ?!?
Forgive the slightly dumb question, which is...
I'm thinking of getting a Roon Server, of some type possibly a Roon Nucleus.
In addition I was thinking of a Linn streamer / DAC as an endpoint in my main lounge setup, connected to a set of Beolabs (Linn streamers are Roon capable)
Elsewhere someone mentioned that Chromecast speakers are Roon endpoints - and I have an A9 MK2 and BS2, both of which have chrome cast built in.
So, will I be able to do multi-room Roon music - presumably using the Roon iOS app - either starting music as a multi-room group / experience, or adding the A9 (for example) in to ongoing music in the lounge.
Yes, not an Airplay (2) question, but more a question of how Roon treats things like the A9 / BS2.
Apologies again for the dumb question
Sandyb: Forgive the slightly dumb question, which is... I'm thinking of getting a Roon Server, of some type possibly a Roon Nucleus. In addition I was thinking of a Linn streamer / DAC as an endpoint in my main lounge setup, connected to a set of Beolabs (Linn streamers are Roon capable) Elsewhere someone mentioned that Chromecast speakers are Roon endpoints - and I have an A9 MK2 and BS2, both of which have chrome cast built in. So, will I be able to do multi-room Roon music - presumably using the Roon iOS app - either starting music as a multi-room group / experience, or adding the A9 (for example) in to ongoing music in the lounge. Yes, not an Airplay (2) question, but more a question of how Roon treats things like the A9 / BS2. Apologies again for the dumb question
Sandy,
Roon zones can only be grouped with other zones of the same type.
This means, Chromecast zones can be grouped using the Google Home app, but cannot be grouped within Roon.
Using the Google Home app, you can set up groups of devices, which then appear as additional audio devices in Roon alongside the hardware devices. So for example, you could group a few Chromecasts into a “Whole House” or “Living Room” zone, enable them as separate Zones in Roon, to play together in sync.
So this will work with an A9 and BS2, but not with additional Roon ready hardware, RAAT enabled devices, for multiroom playing with Chromecasts.
https://kb.roonlabs.com/FAQ:_How_do_I_link_zones_so_they_play_the_same_thing_simultaneously%3F
Sandyb: So, will I be able to do multi-room Roon music - presumably using the Roon iOS app - either starting music as a multi-room group / experience, or adding the A9 (for example) in to ongoing music in the lounge. Apologies again for the dumb question
Not sure that is a dumb question - I guess it is just a question 😉
Don’t forget, that you can only play to multiple chromecast devices, when they are set up as groups (using rhe Google Home app).
These devices/group of devices will then show up under the audio tab in Roon.
https://blog.roonlabs.com/chromecast-support-in-roon/
You won’t however, be able to join in from another B&O device like in a NL network.
And due to hardware limitations, Chromecast devices can not be grouped with other, non-Chromecast devices outside of the Google Home app.
Probably - if you airplay from Roon to one NL device - you could join in on another device (with the right settings of the NL devices).
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Ouuups - Ulrike beats me on this.
Why do I need Roon Labs another streaming / multiroom provider besides Airplay or Chromecast?
You don't need it - though you may prefer it.
Watch some YT videos on Roon - the main advantage seems to be probably the best user experience with respect to (a) discovery (b) integrating content from local storage with streaming services, and (c) the highest res music formats.
I don't need it, but am seriously considering it - the individual apps I use, be it Tidal, Deezer, B&O app aren't very satisfying to me. Fine for playing something I know in advance, but beyond that Roon seems very very good for discovery.
But it requires a bit of investment, so I can see why. its not for many.
mm08642: Why do I need Roon Labs another streaming / multiroom provider besides Airplay or Chromecast?
For multiroom streaming of Hi Res files, from your NAS and/or from Qobuz (I'm a Qobuz Sublime+ subscriber).
Airplay does NOT support playing Hi Res files.
Chromecast ...
theoretically it should support playing Hi Res files up to 24 Bit/96 kHz.
But in fact it doesn't.
Since july 2018 everything above 24Bit/48kHz playback via Chromecast produces stuttering and dropouts.
Both, from CCA devices and Chromecast-built-in devices.
https://support.google.com/chromecast/thread/356030?hl=en
In my eyes the main strength of Roon Labs is not to have another multiroom system / protocol. Yes, it offers this feature, but it can work with streaming protocols of Chromecast, Airplay, Squeezebox / Logitech Media Server, Sonos, etc..
The main strength of Roon Labs is the unique accessibility and visibility of a huge music library. So, it tackles the same challenge as B&O tried to solve with MOTS or Moodwheel – how to access a large music library easily? I personally think, that Roon Labs found the better solution - at least for music lovers / not for radio listeners necessarily. Not focusing on a machine DJ who tries to find the best program, instead focusing on how to present a music library, that you as user are enjoying being your own DJ - discovering your music selection. And certainly, Roon Labs offers “radio” and you get what everybody else offers (e.g. B&O, Deezer, Spotify) the automated DJ / playlist.
So Roon Labs is not in competition to Chromecast or Airplay etc. it is a meaningful addition.
agreed - that plus the integration of your own music with streaming providers' library.
The Moment tried to solve that, but in a much less successful way.
And the B&O app doesn't even do that part - in fact it's almost unusable with NAS libraries.
Hi all and happy 2020! Living in Singapore and having a ‘circuit breaker’ I decided to discover my old music collection on my NAS instead of just enjoying and loving Spotify.
just a few days of Roon but great to rediscover my old music collection.
questions for the community;
on a beosound core - should you use the chromecast or airplay protocol? On Chromecast should you set-up MQA decoder/render or beosound Core not capable?
for BL5; trying to figure out how to get the best sound quality all the way through (all files on NAS are lossless CD rips from my own CD collection) is it best to go through Avant and PL or should I try to drive speakers directly and just let the TV play by it’s built in speaker when watching TV?
appreciate any thoughts or experiences! Be well and stay safe
Set-up:Storage - QNap
Roon Core: MAC Mini (HDMI to BeoVision Avant)
Speakers;
BL5 (PowerLink) connected to the Avant
BeoSound Core (WiFi) - BL 7.1
I can only answer some of your questions.
I am using Airplay to stream to my loudspeakers, because you can group different airplay speakers within the Roon app. For grouping Chromecast speakers you need to use the Google Home app, additionally. And I do not like to change apps all the time.
I do not know what threat to use. Roon labs support by B&O would be really great in my eyes.
A) On one hand I do not know, if it makes sense for B&O. Due to the possibility that license fees have to be paid to Roon Labs and how complicated (= development costs) it is to integrate RAAT (= Streaming protocol of Roon) besides Airplay and Chromecast into the B&O devices.
B) On the other hand brands like Bowers&Wilkins or BlueSound are offering Roon additionally to Airplay.
Would be interesting how B&O thinks about it ?!?
I'm a huge fan of Roon. I use it for over 3 years now and by far it's the best way to interact with your music if you have a huge flac/mp3 collection on your NAS or computer. But also the integration with Tidal and Qobuz works great.
I've always been hoping that the Beosound 1 and 2 would become 'Roon ready' with a software update, thus implementing the RAAT protocol besides airplay and chromecast. Who knows.
I guess the issue will be that only a small part of the B&O target group is interested in Roon.....especially in the costs for subscribtion and the server gear needed.
Since Roon handles Chromecast and AirPlay as an endpoint, you are able to use Roon in a B&O setup now.
What are you missing and what would be the advantages of a build-in RAAT support over the Airplay/Cast as endpoint?
Multi-room timing/delay the same across multiple RAAT-supporting brands, which is something B&O-everywhere customers don't think of. (I.e. Roon can play to multiple Airplay speakers all in sync, but those will not be in sync with other RAAT or ChromeCast rooms.) Also RAAT playback starts up much faster than Airplay, again not something B&O customers think about, being accustomed to, for example, lengthy delays between pressing a channel number and the BeoCenter or TV actually switching. The most significant difference that was/is true with AirPlay but fixed with AirPlay 2, was signal bandwidth limitations. A more complete answer is at: https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT
(Note: the OP's lifetime subscription costs $700 nowadays, not $500.)
Exactly. The ability to use multiple systems with one another.
For example, I have Beolab speakers, but my streamer and pre amp are non B&O. I love the combo, and it uses RAAT. If I would throw a Beosound 1 in the mix (Aka use multi room), in my kitchen for example, I can’t do this through ROON at the moment. ROON plays to 1 ‘system’ at the time. For example all airplay speakers, all RAAT speakers, etc. You can’t combine systems in ROON if you want to listen to the same music (different music in different rooms/systems will work though).
Now you could argue that it’s ROON that need to change, not B&O that needs to add RAAT to their speakers. But I don’t know if ROON can, from a technical point of view I mean.
But my argument is more that, from a music lover point of view, ROON has simply the best user experience. No B&O interface, or streaming service, is as nice as ROON. So, if you can’t beat them, join them. It might also save costs in the R&D department of B&O. Something they could use right now?
I think B&O customers are willing to pay the $700 price (or yearly subscription, also possible) if they see what it does. I mean, if you spent $15.000 for a TV and another $10.000 on speakers, $700 extra is not that much.
Millemissen: What are you missing and what would be the advantages of a build-in RAAT support over the Airplay/Cast as endpoint?
In my eyes the biggest advantage for B&O would be, that RAAT can handle multi-channel streaming (see https://kb.roonlabs.com/Multichannel). For example based on RAAT protocol B&O could develop a soundbar that could stream in sync to additional WLAN loudspeakers to enable a surround set-up similar as Sonos is offering with its soundbare(s) and additional Sonos WLAN loudspeakers.
With multi-channel and able to handle up to 32 bit content (see https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-the-difference-raat-vs-airplay/6891/5) RAAT seems future proof. I assume that one of major reason why Bang&Olufsen ditched NetLink (NL) is, that Netlink probably could not handle these future technology demands.
Audio: With multi-channel and able to handle up to 32 bit content (see https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-the-difference-raat-vs-airplay/6891/5) RAAT seems future proof. I assume that one of major reason why Bang&Olufsen ditched NetLink (NL) is, that Netlink probably could not handle these future technology demands.
Seems that you are not quite up to date....B&O did not ditch NL.
And I am pretty sure that they as well as most of the costumers don’t care about a theoretical (=non realistic in real life) 32 bit content aupport.
I see the benefit for B&O much greater.
If you study the page of roon, you see how many brands offer roon ready or roon testet devices: Shiit, Denon, Nad, Cambridge Audio, just to name a few (there are over 100). All these companies take the trouble to integrate RAAT. And now it shouldn't be worth it for B&O, because we... are different
Besides the above mentioned points from Alsfeld, Richarldlll, Sandby and trackbeo, I also see the advantage that you don't have to integrate every provider into your app because the customer xy would prefer that, Roon is interested in integrating more and more services. And yeah, it handles NAS really well.
It's exactly this possibility with the trouble-free streaming over different devices that lured me away from B&O. I don't want to be dependent just on B&O equipment anymore, and yes Beosound Balance sounds really sensational for its size, but I think its look... now, let's say it's just not my taste.
Now I have a Naim Uniti Nova in the living room which drives my Piega CL 90x, I have a Naim Muso in the bedroom, a Bluesound Node II in the "office" which drives my Beolab 4000 and in the bathroom Bluesond Pulse flex. And all work together nicely without any hassle. With Airplay and Chromcast I had my trouble with it, besides the fact that it took me far too long to start anything.
If B&O was Roon compatible, I would have kept 99% at least of my Beosound 1 in the bathroom.
But I still have my Beovision Eclipse
But it could be different, a customer sees a B&O device, he can integrate it into his setup via Roon and then he discovers for example how elegant the "Touch to join" function is and he might buy more products. And B&O must sell more products....
By the way: as far as I can see, the "Touch to Join" function is really unique (and i now testet a few). No other company has done it anywhere near as well (and if they could integrate it with Roon, that would be top notch, but of course not very realistic).
But anyway, we will see what the future brings....
I think certain B&O products like the Core/Shape an Beolab lines would be well suited to Roon. It's well implemented technically and aesthetically. It's probably the best audiophile-centric software I have tried. I am not a customer, but I did try it out and it's impressive.
B&O in my life 😊:
Millemissen:Seems that you are not quite up to date....B&O did not ditch NL.
But unfortunately B&O is not following WISA consequently - or did B&O ditch WISA, too? At least B&O forgot to consider a WISA transmitter in the Beosound Stage and in the Beosound Core. As well as a WISA receiver at least in the Beolab Shape.
But probably no B&O customer cares! Because consumers who are looking for state of the art integrated audio and video products will not find anything within the B&O product range (not taking about the mass market of Airplay, Chromecast and bluetooth loudspeakers).
WiSA is not a streaming protocol - it is a way to wirelessly connect speakers to a source (with the transmitter unit built-in).....and supports up to 8 channels from one source.
Let’s call it a transmission protocol - B&O calls it Wireless Power Link/WPL.
As for the other ‘things’ in your post, I already gave my take on why WiSA is not a part of the mentioned products - and I understand that you miss it for your use case......which is ok.
From the beginning B&O has offered the external Transmitter 1 unit for these cases and more.
Why should B&O have ditched WiSA?
By the way, they worked closely with the WiSA people, when this technology was developed and they know pretty well what WiSA is about.
I love this post from Alsfed! A product like Moment is is perfect for Roon. In my case, I considered a Moment but decided to use my iPad Pro instead as a Music System (I have it docked in my living room almost exclusively for Music and Home Automation control - works well). The Roon UI/UX is superb. Having said that, it is not difficult to integrate Roon into current B&O products if anyone chooses to.
My dream would be, that Bang&Olufsen opens the Beosound Moment operating system. Perhaps as a Bang&Olufsen Create / Beocreate project.
It should be not too difficult to install a Roon labs control app on the Moment Jukebox, as the technical specification of the Jukebox should be the same as the Nexus 7 from 2012. And to use the Moment Soundheart (Cortex A8 CPU with a linux distribution) as a Roon lab output by installing Shairport Sync (= linux based Airplay receiver) on the Soundheart.
Does anybody know, who in the B&O organization to address for support?
It would be easy and risk-free step for B&O into the Roon Labs world. Getting feedback if Roon would be an useful addition to the B&O product portfolio.