ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I am fortunate at the moment to have a 3rd set of BeoLab 17s on trial to see if having more speakers with my Eclipse gets me closer to finding a way to get an Atmos effect from the TrueImage. All my speakers use WiSA, as we do not want any wires on show.
For clarity, I normally use the Technical Sound Guide settings but I have found these do not work well for Apple TV. Therefore, I am asking for the forum members’ advice on what other speaker role options to try.
The benefit of using an Eclipse (or Avant or Harmony) is the ability to set speaker groups by source.
Through trial I have found my best sounding settings by device are:
Sky Q 2TB (5.1)
(Eclipse FL, FR, FC) (BeoLab 17s SL, SR) (BeoLab 19 subwoofer). The Dolby Digital Plus output from UHD movies that say are Atmos, output no different to non Atmos films. Whatever settings I choose to get different sounds at the back or from above don’t work, so I use less speakers and stick to 5.1 for most normal TV viewing.
Apple TV 4K (5.1.2)
For Atmos (Eclipse FL, FR, FC) (BeoLab 17s SL, SR, SLH, SRH) (BeoLab 19 subwoofer). I tried adding a Ceiling role with the LFE Input setting to Ceiling, it did nothing. If you use LB, RB as roles (7.1.2), these also do nothing.
Panasonic DP-UB820 UHD Blu-ray player (7.1)
The output is set to LCPM not Bitrate and so I think I get Dolby True HD (Eclipse FL, FR, FC) (BeoLab 17s SL, SR, LB, RB) (BeoLab 19 subwoofer). If you use SLH, SRH as roles (7.1.2), these do nothing.
In summary whatever speaker role settings I apply, I cannot get my current system to work so that all 9 speakers + 1 sub play a unique soundtrack.
What I have also found is that the more speakers you add after 5.1 the law of diminishing returns apply and so it will be a costly indulgence to keep a 3rd set of BeoLab 17s, as they will probably only add a little more to my listening experience. But now I have trialled them I don’t want to give them back to my dealer.
Lastly, I will soon trial adding a second BeoLab 19 subwoofer. I am very pleased with the bass, and cannot hear any gaps but the more I read, the more I hear having 2 subs is a good investment.
Present: Eclipse 55” Gen 2 with motorised wall bracket. Plus 2 x pairs of BeoLab 17 + 1 x BeoLab 19 using WiSA to the soundcenter.
Also LG 55” C9 + BeoSound Stage in another room. And 2 x A1 Gen1 as PC speakers.
Past: Eclipse 55 Gen 1 and before that an Avant 55” MK1.
BV Harmony 65 / Eclipse 55 / BL 50 / 19 / 18 / BS 2 all brass
BV Horizon 48 / V1 40 / BL 17 / Beoplay S3 all black
V1 / BL 3 / BS Essence MKII / Beoplay A3 all white
BS Moment / BS 3000 / BS 3200 / BL 400 all silver
Headphones / bluetooth speakers / BLC NL-ML / BLGateway
I know…B&O virus has grown on me !
Thanks Fantastic.
I did enjoy watching Mikipidia’s video. I had already done all this and used a laser measure and a did app.
Don’t get me wrong I love my Eclipse and I am a vocal B&O brand advocate. I just cannot stop myself tweaking to extract out the optimum setup.
Unfortunately my room doesn’t allow for any speakers (due to a bay window and opposite double doors through to a dining room) to be used as FL FR, and so I am using the Eclipse L/R as Fronts.
The Eclipse is on the automatic bracket and opens out the full 60 degrees, with the TV floating in mid air, cutting one corner of the room by the bay window and diagonally opposite to a L shaped sofa by the double doors. As best we can we have still been able to set up exactly in the positions as the Technical Sound Guide suggested placement for SL, SR, LB, RB, when we open the double doors and use the back wall of the dining room to effectively increase the size of our room with space behind where we sit.
I am hoping others forum members may have tried other speaker role settings in the TV’s menu (not placements) to force the TrueImage to send sounds out to speakers placed as per the Technical Sound Guide, that I have not considered.
Hi Simon
First of all….forget Atmos!
Your setup and all current B&O setups (apart from Stage/Contour) can not handle/decode any Atmos information.
They play the base layer (7.1/5.1) of the sound content.
Set your devices to output LPCM - the AT V4 will output from Dolby Digital Plus, the disc player from Dolby True HD (if choosen).
Depending on how your speaker layout and the settings are, the True Image processor will then try to output sound in all speakers.
So….a setup with Eclipse as LF, FC, FR, BL17 as LS, RS and maybe and L/R Rears (and if course the Sub) will do.
That is the classic Dolby layout - be aware that (apart from the right speaker configuration) the placement of the speakers and your seating has a big influence on the result. Right seating placement in a 7.1 setup is with the Surrounds beside the where you sit…..as good as it can get..
Since you have the 2 additional BL17’s you could place these relatively high on the wall or on the ceiling as L and R Height Surrounds located above the Surrounds…maybe a bit further back towards the rears
It will be important that these are higher placed than the other speakers and turned a bit downwards - because only this will trick your brain to believe that information is coming from above.
The TrueImage processing can not create height channels (as in Atmos), but what is send there and the fact that your hear it coming from above you, will give you an ‘Atmos-alike-feeling’, a more spacial feeling. Actually it is quite good, when set up correct.
P.S. If the placement and the use of the rears in your room is too difficult, I would ditch those……or set them up R and L (stereo) in a seperate Speaker Group just for that, when you want to listen to music/radio in the dining area.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4
Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/
Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Mikipidia, firstly, thank you, your corresponding is appreciated.
I will check the sound settings to ensure TrueImage is set to on for all sound modes. I either see TrueImage 5.1.2 or Downmix 7.1 when I open the sound info in the app, when playing a source; and as I change sources or speaker groups the app updates immediately.
Secondly so sorry you added a posting in the middle of the night, I did not intend for this to cause you a sleepless night.
Here is my room:
The white BeoLab 17s will be re-cased by my dealer's service engineer to black cases at an additional cost. I intend to put one in the dining room in the right corner so as to have stereo in there as you suggest. Plus add the other, above the TV so as to have a speaker as best as I can in each corner of the lounge, for when I listen to music. Currently I use the Eclipse as the speaker for that corner of the room, rather than just listen to the 3 x BeoLab 17s. This will also be used as Centre Height for normal viewing, to raise up the sound when watching the news etc.
Even though it is only being tested on the floor, there is little difference in sound quality between the speech of the CF on the Eclipse or if I flip to the BeoLab 17 to be the CF. So for those doubters on the quality of the Soundcenter speakers, I think in their own right they are very capable speakers. That being said, if I could add dedicated FL and FR I would but in my layout that is not an option.
Currently the setup enables me to have the TV fully out, if my wife and I are sitting (one on each sofa), with the speaker between the sofas as CB; or the screen is less open and I sit on my own on the 3 seater.
When I open the dining room door, the speaker between the sofas above the subwoofer becomes a RB and the dining room become the LB or RSH, LSH depending on whether ATV or Blu-Ray. I increase by +6 db in the levels and they work very well despite being 4.3m from the closest sofa. At Christmas when we were having our meal, we just used the single BeoLab 17 in the dining room for background fill and this was very good also.
btw you find the trueimage setting under ''sound modes'', click whichever one you're using and then under ''spatial control''. That's where you can change it.
I don't really know if I understand you right, but are you saying that the speakers in surround height role never make any sound? Not even with a 5.1 source?
It's not the easiest room to setup surround in and I wonder how much it affects it all, but surely we can help make some improvements
What Fansastic says makes sense to me due to positioning. if you want to keep the tv l/c/r and want surround heights, those speakers should be above the black ones behind the couch. If you look up a Dolby reference speaker position chart it may be a bit easier to understand
hope it helps somewhat? I just can't imagine the surround height making no sound what so ever unless something is (setup) wrong
Thank you Fantastic & Mikipidia.
All settings are checked. TrueImage is on for all sound modes. I have created different speaker groups with speaker role options that work how I want and expect them to for the different sources.
…So I will live with having to press the memory buttons on the BeoRemote before viewing different content.
I have narrowed the issue to I think how the TrueImage processing algorithm interacts with the different devices and the format they output.
For example:
Watching ‘The Witcher’ on Netflix which is labelled as Atmos, via Apple TV, or any Atmos film purchased in iTunes, if I use LSH and RSH with LF, CF, RH, SL, SR, Sub; sound info says codec PCM, channel allocation says 7.1, and channel output allocation says 5.1.2, with processing says TrueImage. This setup works and sound goes to all speakers. But if I change to a different group with LSH changed to LB and RSH changed to RB, other speaker roles unchanged, no sound comes out of the ‘Back’ speakers, but the other 5.1 are OK. Also the sound info changes to Downmix processing and the channel output allocation has changed to 7.1
But…
When I watch Baby Driver UHD Blu-ray (or any other UHD disc) on my Panasonic UHD player, using the settings above, it is the reverse. The sound is correct for all speakers using Left and Right Back, but no sound come out of the rear speakers if set to L/R Surround Height. The only difference I can identify is the codec which is LPCM.
As I said above, I can work with what I have and the sound is excellent, for both music and movies. The surround sound impresses everyone. I was just confused why the algorithm appears on my setup to work differently for different inputs. I should also stop looking at the sound info details on the B&O app, whilst I watch the TV, and just enjoy the experience!
If I am honest, it sounds incredible just in 5.1, so I have many workarounds to achieve everything, and therefore this is a 1st world problem.
Additionally, whilst I have the white speakers I will trial, different placements for where to instruct the installer to hang the speaker, once the cases are changed, but the other will go in the dining room to put a stereo option in the room.
Thanks again, all your insight is appreciated.
Simon.
We did have a 55” MK1 Avant in the bay window with a STB bracket on the back for all the devices. This was paired with a set of BeoLab 17s and a BeoLab 19, the ones in my picture on the opposite back wall to the bay window and it was a great 5.1 setup, but we found too much of the window was blocked up and the room quite dark. Also my wife didn’t like from outside it was ugly when you looked in and lastly, this was where she wanted and now has the Christmas tree.
Which is why when we changed to the Eclipse, because the Avant suffered a screen problem, it was put in the corner, I felt I needed to add another set of 17s, the one on the left, closest to the TV, to get flexible 5.1 wherever the TV is angled to, but because we had just added an electric fire I lost the discussion to place the other at the same place on the other wall.
For months the second BeoLab speaker sat in a box, but when I had a LG C9 and BeoSound Stage fitted in our kitchen I asked the installer to put the spare 17 in the dining room for background noise. This was my worst decision, because it looks unbalanced and because I now have the number of speakers to have 7.1 I started months ago on finding the best settings, leading to this thread with my findings. Which has led me to decide to buy a 3rd set of 17s and live with a Atmos effect when watching on the ATV.
The 17s are great and in my opinion sound more versatile for movies and music than 18s, but so much cheaper. Unlike most B&O owners, I am using my setup 80% for movies and only 20% music. When I compare 17s to the rest of the BeoLab range, IMO they are too cheep and a real bargain, hence why I will go to the expense of changing the cases on a 2nd hand set of 17s to add these into my setup.
Mikipidia:Netflix only streams in dolby digital or DD+ for their atmos parts. It’s a lossy format but it’s a good one as they really put time and effort in to making it good. The aptv just puts out the highest resolution it can. Pcm sounds a bit flatter to me but that can also be because there is much more channel separation. Both are very good but most depends on setup if you’ll notice any difference. DD+ with atmos on Netflix is also 7.1 and like a said i think 2 or 3 podcasts ago, there is a lot of confusion about what atmost really is. Most Atmos things are still mastered in 7.1 but come with a virtual 9th channel that’s in time and space in your room, if that makes any sense? New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0 Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4 Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/ Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.