ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
It all seems very quiet on the BeoLit 12 front.
Here's a new review praising it's merits...
From its gorgeous aluminum chassis to its amazing midrange tones and bass levels, B&O’s 6.2-pound sound cube is an all-around stunner. Exceptional AirPlay functionality and up to eight hours of media playback add to its value. If money is no object, consider the Beolit 12 your best bet.
http://www.complex.com/tech/2012/12/holiday-gift-guide-the-10-best-wireless-speakers/bang-olufsen-beolit-12
I'm very surprised to learn that McIntosh is producing an AirPlay device..
Beo4 'til I die!
Evan, it's moving with the times, market trends and what sells man!
I was in Selfridges, Trafford Centre the other week and it was SONOS, SONOS, SONOS everywhere! And I lost count the number of Bluetooth and Airplay speakers!
The way in which people live their lives is changing so fast and what was acceptable 10 or 15 years ago is pre-historic in 2012-13. It's all very well making huge amps etc but if they only sell to .1% of the market, you're not going to be in business for long.
10 years ago there wasn't even an iPod let alone iTunes, iPhones and iPads. Just think how much has changed in 10 years.
Paul W:10 years ago there wasn't even an iPod let alone iTunes, iPhones and iPads
Happy days............ ;-)
valve1: Paul W:10 years ago there wasn't even an iPod let alone iTunes, iPhones and iPads Happy days............ ;-)
..... or iBores!
Happy Days +1.
Ban boring signatures!
Hey Guys, nobody is forcing you to use iTunes or buy an iPhone. You can still use CDs or vinyl.
I personally don't miss sticking CDs in their cheap plastic cases at all or the crackly, distorted sound of vinyl. To me, the way we listen to music now is amazing. From my University days, all of my friends are living all over the world. With MP4, it's lovely being able to share via Email that music.
I love having my entire collection of music with me wherever I am in the world, I love not opening a CD case only to find the CD missing and I love watching on film on iTunes instantly without having to load a DVD or have to watch the copyright or promos.
I'm sure a lot of people who knock iTunes / MP4s are probably the people who buy CDs who knocked CDs when they first hit the market. CDs, cassettes, vinyl are the last century. We have to move on and my gosh, this new technology is letting people enjoy and share music a thousand times more in so many different places than fragile CDs or vinyl. I sometimes wonder if people on this site actually buy music that sounds great on their fluffy systems rather than actually appreciating the actual music!!!
Do I miss walking into a record shop? Definitely not. I've a thousand more interests and things to do in my free time. But, I do love being able to buy just ONE track of an album or instantly buy a tune that I was looking for 20 years ago or instantly buy a new track that i've just heard on a radio station say in Paris or Barcelona!
It may interest you to know that i regularly use an ipod classic ( and am therefore forced to suffer itunes to administer it) - however Im able to resist the urge to bang on about it at every conceivable opportunity!
I prefer to buy cd's and rip losslessly - why pay apple for inferior quality tunes???
Pleas try and post without an i**** in every sentence - it is very wearisome.
Puncher:Pleas try and post without an i**** in every sentence - it is very wearisome.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Puncher, i'm sorry that you 'suffer' to use iTunes, but personally, I find it an absolute delight to use, with easy making of playlists, good use of typography and easy to use along with rock solid stability!. It also works seamlessly with our broadcasting software and playout systems - Serato, Traktor, Rekordbox, DJay, Virtual DJ etc etc.
Surely anything that allows people to enjoy music effortlessly is superb!
I won't apologise for referring to iPhones and iPods - i'm sure that if you were stuck with Serenes and Serenetas, that there would be many many more complaints.
I am like you Puncher - I enjoy buying physical CDs, then ripping them in lossless format so that I can enjoy them fully using any of my assorted 'i' devices...
I love the freedom and seamless integration the modern devices offer, but still have a soft spot for CDs and vinyl - and even the odd cassette now and again! My car links into an iPod, which I can control with the dashboard buttons - but I still like to slot a CD in every now and again for the noticeably improved sound quality.
There's a place for all types in this world - and there will always be those who'd prefer to spend money on a whacking great amp and speaker package over any of the newer products.
Paul W:Do I miss walking into a record shop? Definitely not. I've a thousand more interests and things to do in my free time.
On the other hand I do love visiting quality music shops ... just like I love visiting quality bookshops.
Sadly there is now only one quality music shop in the centre of Melbourne, and a few surviving quality bookshops.
Progress is great (see off topic link) but not always good when traditions, style, and quality die.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2012/dec/13/how-people-die-global-mortality-visualised#cause
BeoNut since '75
elephant:On the other hand I do love visiting quality music shops ... just like I love visiting quality bookshops.
--mika
elephant:On the other hand I do love visiting quality music shops ... just like I love visiting quality bookshops. Sadly there is now only one quality music shop in the centre of Melbourne, and a few surviving quality bookshops. Beo-Ed :-)
I can only assume the young urbanites amongs us have never visited a store like JG Windows in its heyday! Given a choice between the two you can stick your iStore where the sun never shines!!!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Totally agree with you Chris, but HMV is really depressing with its dark interior and often they play really sad indie kind of music in there on a few times i've killed time in there.
Years ago, I was a fan of Virgin Megastores but hey, they vanished too even before the iTunes days
HMV and Virgin come no where close to what l remember as a good music store!!
Michael: elephant: On the other hand I do love visiting quality music shops ... just like I love visiting quality bookshops. Sadly there is now only one quality music shop in the centre of Melbourne, and a few surviving quality bookshops. Beo-Ed :-) Basement disks?
elephant: On the other hand I do love visiting quality music shops ... just like I love visiting quality bookshops. Sadly there is now only one quality music shop in the centre of Melbourne, and a few surviving quality bookshops. Beo-Ed :-)
Beo-Ed :-)
Basement disks?
I was thinking of Thomas' !
For those who would like some nostalgia when the colonies closed at midday on Saturday and open again on Monday morning there are some black & white shots going back to the founding of Thomas' 90 years ago ....
http://www.thomasmusic.net.au/history.php
Magnus:But who uses iTunes Music Store? The quality is not good enough for the geeks and for everybody else Spotify is just way easier and, well... better. I don't know anybody who uses it anymore and I just don't think it has a future in its current format.
Yes, indeed
Who would bother loading MP3 from i-tunes (syncing etc.) when you can use spotify or similar on all of your devices (at home, mobile phones etc.)?I have digitzed hundreds of my own CDs several years ago - not using the files anymore, just Napster (here in Germany).
Listening to vinyl just for the enjoyment of having a real cover, and the old fashioned sound (but for my ears better sounding!!, hard to describe, seems more 3d than mp3s that sound 2d...).That provides a listening experience.
Right now I am struggling which B&O Audio system I will keep.For sure the Beosystem 7000 and the Beolab 5000 system (60s).But either the Beosound 9000 CD changer or the Beocenter 3000 has to go...
Ralf
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
blimey, i am in the process of buying a cassette cleaning kit, but I'm not gonna mention it to anyone for fear of ridicule
bidstonhall:but I'm not gonna mention it to anyone for fear of ridicule
Hard to ridicule anyone living in Thailand - great county and people ! Good luck with the cleaning. :-)
kallasr:But either the Beosound 9000 CD changer or the Beocenter 3000 has to go...
Save the 9000 !
personaltrainerpaul:Evan, it's moving with the times, market trends and what sells man! I was in Selfridges, Trafford Centre the other week and it was SONOS, SONOS, SONOS everywhere! And I lost count the number of Bluetooth and Airplay speakers! The way in which people live their lives is changing so fast and what was acceptable 10 or 15 years ago is pre-historic in 2012-13. It's all very well making huge amps etc but if they only sell to .1% of the market, you're not going to be in business for long. 10 years ago there wasn't even an iPod let alone iTunes, iPhones and iPads. Just think how much has changed in 10 years.
Evan, maybe they are offering it because just like B&O their market and sales may have gone stale or dried up. It's all very well reminiscing about CDs but in todays market, there are very few people buying them. Certainly there's the die hard fans just like this website, but look at the people that regularly post on this site - maybe 20 people out of the entire world and this is what a company has to address.
The other week some fans on this site were crying over the switch off date for FM. Let me tell you as a Regional Marketing Manager in radio my job is trends, trending and future growth. Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!! Thats 57% of ALL radio listeners that doesnt even include on-line, DAB, Sky, Astra, Freesat or Freeview - in reality FM is accounting for less than 10% market share in commercial radio. I'm sure it is a very similar figure for CDs over downloads.
Yes - times are changing rapidly. Now iTunes is yesterdays news -some people have already moved on. But don't tell it too loud. It might ruin the day of some 'i' fans on this site...
Paul W: The other week some fans on this site were crying over the switch off date for FM. Let me tell you as a Regional Marketing Manager in radio my job is trends, trending and future growth. Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!! Thats 57% of ALL radio listeners that doesnt even include on-line, DAB, Sky, Astra, Freesat or Freeview - in reality FM is accounting for less than 10% market share in commercial radio. I'm sure it is a very similar figure for CDs over downloads.
Worldwide, smartphone owners is far less then 50%, so I find that hard to believe... Do you have a source to back this up?
And yes, I am definitely one of those using online radio from my sonos, iphone or whatever, but I think I spend more time using FM-radio, when I’m at work or in my car because there is really no other option.
Paul W:Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!! Thats 57% of ALL radio listeners that doesnt even include on-line, DAB, Sky, Astra, Freesat or Freeview - in reality FM is accounting for less than 10% market share in commercial radio
Where the hel has that statistic come from?
I would hazard a guess that people who listen to radio in their cars is at least 30% of all radio listening, the majority of which will be FM.
I have iPad, iPod Touch, iPad mini, Nexus tablet and iPhone at home. Tune in radio and particular apps for radio stations are great occasionally, but the sound quality is rubbish compared to FM, digital TV, or SKY. Given the choice i will press the "Radio" button on my BeoSound 3 or link system any day. The alternative of unlocking the iPad, loading the app, Plugging the ipad in so the battery doesn't run out, and listening in crap quality with buffering doesn't come close.
I can't, in a million years, believe that "57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app". I don't know anyone that does it as their main way of listening
DoubleU: Paul W: The other week some fans on this site were crying over the switch off date for FM. Let me tell you as a Regional Marketing Manager in radio my job is trends, trending and future growth. Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!! Thats 57% of ALL radio listeners that doesnt even include on-line, DAB, Sky, Astra, Freesat or Freeview - in reality FM is accounting for less than 10% market share in commercial radio. I'm sure it is a very similar figure for CDs over downloads. Worldwide, smartphone owners is far less then 50%, so I find that hard to believe... Do you have a source to back this up?
You know what is said about statistics:
'Statistics: The only science that enables different experts using the same figures to draw different conclusions.''Evan Esar
'There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up.' ~Rex Stout, Death of a Doxy
'Never mind the facts -I know what I know.'(unknown) (maybe written by some guy whose name starts with P...?)
Steffen:Worldwide, smartphone owners is far less then 50%, so I find that hard to believe... Do you have a source to back this up?
In South America there are a population of nearly 400.000.000, now tell me how your statistic manage that, less than 2 % has a smart phone, but nearly all of the 400 million are radio listeners.
How dare You question the statistics of a trendy Regional Marketing Manager..?
A man whose personal statistics (based on his friends) earlier this year,have stated that no-one (except some seniors and family-people) buys TV's anymore - it's all laptops..(!)
Steffen: DoubleU: Paul W: Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!! Worldwide, smartphone owners is far less then 50%, so I find that hard to believe... Do you have a source to back this up? You know what is said about statistics:
DoubleU: Paul W: Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!! Worldwide, smartphone owners is far less then 50%, so I find that hard to believe... Do you have a source to back this up?
Paul W: Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!!
Worldwide 57% of ALL radio is listened to on an iPhone or Android app!!!
Indeed ... look at the claims this week that adding Google maps to the latest iPhone caused a sudden jump in iOS usage over the weekend once people got home and effect the big download
'twas a good theory until someone analysed what was happening in the US market ... NADA !
Turns out the sudden jump was caused by the 2M iPhones sold that weekend in China.
So yes, "statistics" are different views of the same data; and sometimes, more importantly, you need to understand what dataset you are using !!
I can't help myself, but for me the Beolit 12 is by far one of the ugliest things B&O brought to market over the past few years. Its design is everything but NOT B&O. The same goes for the Beolab 14... they need somebody like David Lewis... VERY FAST! :)
RE the whole vinyl/CD vs MP3 debate - the sound is inferior. Full stop. MP3s just do not sound good - if you think they sound better than your turntable or CD player, then something is seriously wrong with your setup. I spend a considerable amount of time working with, and producing material for all three formats - vinyl will often trump CDs, sometimes the other way round, but MP3 NEVER sounds better. There are a great number of scientific studies which have consistently found that a wide demographic of even entirely un-trained listeners can tell the differences between standard CD audio and MP3. For example: http://seanolive.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/some-new-evidence-that-generation-y.html
The primary function of these systems and technologies is to get music into our homes and into our ears, and this is something modern technology has got worse at in comparison to the 80s and 90s.
Okay, it is more convenient to flick through iTunes to listen to some music, but is this really a better experience? Going to the cinema is not convenient, but it still something we enjoy doing because it adds a spectacle and 'event' to watching a movie rather than sitting down in front of a TV/laptop/whatever in the home. This is something B&O have generally embodied, for example the motorised CD clamps in their players, and the electronic curtains on their TVs.
Can anybody really think that a tiny front-cover on a computer/iPod screen is a better way of listening to music than holding a 12" wide physical paper or card copy of an album with sleeve notes etc? Is watching a little dot move across a slider better than watching the tonearm move it's way to the centre of the disk?
I'm personally not convinced by iTunes/digital music distribution in general, both from a user-experience point of view, or in the long run, a financial point of view, at least not in it's current format.
TWG: I can't help myself, but for me the Beolit 12 is by far one of the ugliest things B&O brought to market over the past few years. Its design is everything but NOT B&O. The same goes for the Beolab 14... they need somebody like David Lewis... VERY FAST! :)
The design IS B&O - from the 60's... Based on an old portable Beolit radio from the 60's. Retro is in, you know...
Steffen:Beolit radio from the 60's. Retro is in, you know
I am from the Sixties ... and sadly I am definitely not in
valve1: Save the 9000 !
I would, BUT
Unfortunately the fabric selector prefers the Beocenter 2300 on the alu stand..
Killyp:RE the whole vinyl/CD vs MP3 debate - the sound is inferior. Full stop. MP3s just do not sound good - if you think they sound better than your turntable or CD player, then something is seriously wrong with your setup. I spend a considerable amount of time working with, and producing material for all three formats - vinyl will often trump CDs, sometimes the other way round, but MP3 NEVER sounds better. There are a great number of scientific studies which have consistently found that a wide demographic of even entirely un-trained listeners can tell the differences between standard CD audio and MP3. For example: http://seanolive.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/some-new-evidence-that-generation-y.html The primary function of these systems and technologies is to get music into our homes and into our ears, and this is something modern technology has got worse at in comparison to the 80s and 90s.Okay, it is more convenient to flick through iTunes to listen to some music, but is this really a better experience? Going to the cinema is not convenient , but it still something we enjoy doing because it adds a spectacle and 'event' to watching a movie rather than sitting down in front of a TV/laptop/whatever in the home. This is something B&O have generally embodied, for example the motorised CD clamps in their players, and the electronic curtains on their TVs.Can anybody really think that a tiny front-cover on a computer/iPod screen is a better way of listening to music than holding a 12" wide physical paper or card copy of an album with sleeve notes etc? Is watching a little dot move across a slider better than watching the tonearm move it's way to the centre of the disk?I'm personally not convinced by iTunes/digital music distribution in general, both from a user-experience point of view, or in the long run, a financial point of view, at least not in it's current format.
Chris Townsend: Everything you say is true, but it exactly what those who loved taking pictures on wet film were saying 10 years ago, when comparing that current technology to the evolving digital cameras.
Everything you say is true, but it exactly what those who loved taking pictures on wet film were saying 10 years ago, when comparing that current technology to the evolving digital cameras.
This is true - but good digital cameras do have many clear advantages over equivalent 35mm counterparts in terms of image quality (although not in every aspect) - while MP3/AAC is simply inferior in every aspect other than convenience. It's performance as a medium for recorded sound is worse in every aspect.
Chris Townsend: Very few studios still film with wet film exclusively as digital to a large degree caught up. Not entirely I admit, but for the vast majority of work it has. MP3/4/5 etc will naturally follow.
Very few studios still film with wet film exclusively as digital to a large degree caught up. Not entirely I admit, but for the vast majority of work it has. MP3/4/5 etc will naturally follow.
I don't see any parallel in the world of music. No recording studios I know of have produced MP3s - they send of at least CD quality, usually higher quality audio to mastering engineers who prepare it for distribution. The artist, or label, will then at the last step decide that they only want to distribute crummy low-quality MP3 equivalents to their audience.
Even when the audience is given the option to download the FLAC/lossless equivalent, they still choose the MP3 files. Why? To be honest, I don't know, I think it's because people have stopped caring enough about the way they listen to their music to choose the better option. I'm probably wrong though. I work in the industry and find it kind of depressing to consider the depth of appreciation me and many of those I surround myself with have for music, but how it's something the general public seem to be falling out of love with.
Chris Townsend: Personally I loathe going to the cinema and usually end up watching the film on iTunes to see the bits I missed or couldn't hear. As for record arms moving, personally I don't give a hoot.
Personally I loathe going to the cinema and usually end up watching the film on iTunes to see the bits I missed or couldn't hear. As for record arms moving, personally I don't give a hoot.
Well this is a slightly separate issue - I too hate going to the cinema most of the time, but this is more because the vast majority of them seem to be crap and full of irritating doiks...