ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi guys!
Got a bit lost after the forum re-design but I'm back! With a few questions for you gurus or just a chat in general regarding my BL5's.
I have a pair of Beolab 5's connected to an Onkyo PR-SC5909 via LINE on the BL5's to pre-outs on the Onkyo AV Receiver.
Complaints: Constant "hissing" sound of silence of the BL5's. this is because the volume of the speakers is set using the Beo4 remote to a few clicks under full volume.
I did this because I didn't want to leave them set at half volume, and then only use my Onkyo Amp to control volume as I would always only be half driving the BL5's/using them to half their potential? Am I right in thinking this?
I would simply hard set the Amp volume,am and use Beo4 to control volume of BL5's, but they aren't the only speakers in my setup. Also have BL3's and BL7-2, whose volumes are controlled via the Amp.
Any advice? Thanks guys would be nice to hear your thoughts! If you guys have any Q's of your own, ask me too (staying on topic of course).
Use SPDIF OUT from your Onkyo, daisychain to the speakers.
Unfortunately, the while the PR-SC5509 is the top spec Onkyo it seems, it doesn't have SPDIF outputs..
What would that help me with anyways?
Thanks
That's a first for me - a back panel filled with connections that doesn't have the SPDIF OUT option.
You can consider one of these, or similar:
http://www.ambery.com/hdautodisand.html
If you're getting a lot of hissing that means there is something coming from the Onkyo that ideally shouldn't be there. Check: If your BL5 hisses a lot at top volume without anything connected to it, then something is wrong with it.
Though I suspect you'll only hear a hiss when the L/R pre-outs are connected.
Using the SPDIF-connection to feed the BL5s gives you a better source for sound, given how the BL5s are built.
You may want to thoroughly check the set-up of your Onkyo, with regards to how the signal is treated before going to your BL5s through the pre-outs. I had an AV-processor connected to my BL5s, for use when playing multi-channel material, and for that I used the pre-outs to BL5 fronts and BL3 surrounds. Didn't have any trouble with hissing.
Personally, I wouldn't run the BL5s at top or near to top volume - for sheer fear of ever feeding them something that also is at a high level. Gave myself a couple of aural earthquakes doing that, and decided to have the speakers set at a lower volume at start-up, and then ran them up to the level I wanted, if needed.
I know :( I wish I knew then what I do now, before purchasing the Onyko. I assumed as it's one of their top of the line products, it would've had it...
But anyways. I feel I should also explain that the primary sources for the AV Receiver: They are a Satellite Box, and a Media Center PC running XBMC. I think this explains the "hiss" as they are receiving silent noise from these devices, and because the BL5's are almost maxed out, the hiss is very much audible. The BL5's are not hissing on their own, it's definitely as a result of the silent noise being fed to it, either from the AV Receiver itself, or by the respective sources connected to it .. Which is why I wanted to re-think my setup..
I could go with one of these devices that concert SPDIF to RCA/line, however I would be concerned whether or not it would fix this "hiss" sound (can't seem to think how it would though) and whether or not audio signal would degrade by introducing this component into the setup.
Wondering if there is a better setup I could consider that would solve the hissing issue, and how other people have connected and setup their BeoLab 5's with Non-B&O receivers/Amps etc.
P.S. I did make my own Powerlink - RCA/Line trigger box cable, which allowed my Onko to both trigger the BL5's on automatically, and control their volume automatically. This was perfect - auto power on trigger, with no hissing! Except for one big issue - the sound coming from the BL5's was clipping/distorting. I've yet to figure out why, and had to resort to the LINE - LINE connection, whereby the BL5's have to be manually powered on, and the BL5 volume is hard set by myself using Beo4 remote. This results in the hiss which I can hear as a result of me setting the volume on BL5's near max. Like I mentioned before, I wasn't really keen of the thought of leaving the BL5's hard set on half volume to reduce the audible hiss, and controlling audio via the AV Reveiver, because I would always only be using half of the BL5 potential, and also if It was setup like this, and i was to manually control the BL5's volume for when I want more sound like you suggested, then the volume levels would be out as the BL5's would be higher volume than the rest of the speaker setup (BL3's & BL7-2)...
Since my home made trigger solution didn't go great, I was thinking about purchasing this:
http://uk.bosscom.com/product.asp?id=1082
thanks for your response so far.
Just put them a few more click lower? my BL5 make a slight hissing sound when on top volume, nothing strange, take any amp you want and output full volume without any music and you'll most likely here a slight hissing.
Im running my BL5 to a preamp and have them on maybe 90% of top volume and there dead silent and there's enough volume control to break your ears.
I really dosen't matter where you make the volume adjustment as long as it's to your pleasing.
Preamp running at 100 % and speaker amp at 50 % = 50% of maximum output
Preamp running at 50 % and speaker amp at 100 % = 50 % of maximum output
Yes, but If I put preamp at 70/80%, I want speaker output to then be the same, and not feel like I'm only using the BL5's to half of their potential if that makes sense?
turning them down a few clicks does greatly reduce the hiss thanks, didn't realize they were in fact at max volume... However I still feel the above..
As I noted i can assure you that your not using them below there full potential if your running them at 90%.
Considering that there is no hiss with powerlink then there most likley not running at full volume, otherwise there would be a hiss there to.
Powerlink is just a preamp signal that's volume regulated the same as any preamp, difference is the power on/off trigger...
I hope this makes sense
I'm starting to understand you now I think :)
However, by setting them at 90% full volume, and if amp is at 90% volume, then BL5's will be using their full potential. But what happens then when amp (just for arguments sake) goes to 100%, and the BL5's are set at 90%, surely they won't be using their full potential?
Yes there your are correct, but I can assure you that your not going to want be in that room when your at 100%.
As long as you are happy with the sound pressure and your not running out of volume on the preamp it's not a problem.
In my case I usually run the preamp at 70/100 when I want to "party" that's plenty loud for me.
Thanks! Appreciate the clarity :) ok so I'm starting to understand things now.
The only challenge now is setting the optimal settings on the Onkyo amp. I have Audyssey calibration on (used the mic that came with Onkyo), as without it the BL5's didn't sound that great (which confuses me). I just worry that the Amp is over-processing/unnecessarily processing the audio signal, as I want the amps in the B&O speakers to process the signal themselves the way B&O intended.
Which is why I'm confused why it sounds so bad when Audyssey and Dynamic is turned off, to when they are turned on.
Also, I'm not sure what levels each speaker should be set at. Should they be exactly equal using the test tone of the AV Receiver? I set them to equal, then set distances of the speakers on the AV Receiver (in m), and now after doing that and then using the test tone again, they don't sound exactly equal, with the center being the loudest in the setup. Does that mean distances are incorrect? I did use a tape measure..
This also confuses me though - had I had a non B&O "amp" connected, there would be no need to set speaker distances, not?
Are there any resources/people who I can chat to in order to run my setup/some Q's past them? Or should I just post pop them here?
Thanks again for the help guys!
An old-school for balancing two volume controls in series, as you are doing. Turn on the BeoLab 5's at a very low volume (just audible), choose a clean source for the Onkyo, run the volume up on the Onkyo until you can hear it clipping/distorting, back off until it's clear.
Now run the volume up on the BL-5's until they drive you out of the room , back down just a bit and store the volume at that setting on the BL-5's. From then forward use the Onky'os volume only. I think that you'll find you're at 75-80% on the 5''s, which will leave enough dynamic head-room for transients, and should eliminate the hissing as well.
We kid because we love.
Thanks a lot Russ :) I think I got the hissing thin sorted now! Now I just need to figure or how to properly set up the speaker levels/distances.
Should I set distances first (in meters) on the Onkyo, then check with the test tone to make sure all speakers are emitting the test tone at the exact same volume by adjusting the dB gain +- on each speaker from within the speaker settings of the Onkyo.
Just need to clarify this right now!
thanks :)
At this point I think I would run the bass calibration on the BeoLab 5's, then make adjustments using the Onkyo.
Thanks. It's the "adjustment" on the Onkyo I'm not sure of.
e.g. Should each speaker sound exactly the same volume when using the test tone of the Onkyo?
Think I need a SPL meter?
That seems like a question for the Onkyo forum!
When setting up for multi-channel, you want to adjust the delay for each speaker relative to the distance from the speaker to the listening position, and you want the perceived SPL at the listening position to be the same, as it measures the test signal.
You can use an SPL app for iPhone or Android to measure, they're precise enough for the job. I take it your Onkyo generates pink noise for the set-up?
RussR: That seems like a question for the Onkyo forum!
Shouldn't discourage anyone from connecting anything non-B&O to Lab 5's, you could ruin their life!
Ban boring signatures!
Thanks for the advice. I've checked out the SPL apps for iPhone, any one in particular you can recommend for iPhone 5?
Just a Q - the listening position obviously is different for different places of the room - do I set the average distance away from listening positions on the Onkyo because in one position I could be 3m away from the front right speaker, in another spot, 4.5m. So how do I go about this?
If by pink noise you mean the noise that sounds like an untuned TV channel, then yes :)
many thanks
Yes, that's pink noise - you should do your speaker distance set-up relative to your preferred watching/listening position. Some processors let you choose different positions, but if you can only pick one, then use your preferred.
I use something called Analyzer from DSP Mobile, but most of the SPL-meters will give you a good indication, just be sure that it allows you to choose "slow" when measuring, so that the numbers don't jump too much. They have an app called dB-Volume which should do the job.
I've also used SPL-Meter from Andrew Smith.
You don't need a separate microphone, just use the one in the iPhone and use the readings to get an indication of whether any of your speakers are seriously off. Leave the iPhone in place throughout, without moving it.
Thanks for that. I did use Audyssey when setting up which allows you to setup multiple listening positions. However, after setting it up using this and testing the pink noise again, speaker volumes didn't seem to match up, and all of the speakers were set to low volume (-dB gains) in the speaker settings e.g. -4dB, another -2dB etc. and they didn't seem to match volumes from what I can remember. Technically, Audyssey should automate these measurements and settings for me.
then I wasn't sure if I can increase all speaker volumes by the same dB gain in order to not lose overall volume. Hard to explain so not sure if you're getting me.
So I re-calibrated the BL5's, then ran Audyssey again and set it up for 5 listening positions (3 of which are quite close to the rear left surround speaker).
Here is what Audyssey set:
Distances:
Left - 5.22m (seems too far, although I'm not sure if this is an average distance since I have multiple listening positions?)
Center - 2.52m
Right - 3.36m
Surr. right - 2.82m
Surr Left - 5.10m
Speaker Config:
Subwoofer - No
Center (BeoLab 7-2) - 40Hz Crossover
Surround (BeoLab 3's) - 40Hz Crossover
My front R and L are Beolab 5's.
Result:
Sounds good with Dynamic EQ turned on, and Audyssey set to "Music" mode. If I turn Dynamic EQ off, it sounds rather terrible to be honest.
But I still don't feel it's setup correctly. Reason being, sounds (music, and other material) doesn't quite sound "centered", with quite a bit of bias to the left side of the speaker setup, especially the left rear surround.
Any advice?
what confuses me is that surely if this was connected to a B&O DVD player for example, it wouldn't do all of this "processing" that the Onkyo is doing, setting speaker distances, crossovers etc. It feels like I'm fiddling with the audio source too much and not letting "raw" audio pass to the BeoLabs to let them do the processing?
For example, music playing through my BeoSound 5 to the front BL5's via Powerlink sounds far more "punchy" than playing music through my amp to the speakers. So I feel the amp is not setup correctly, and all of these "settings"/ processing is messing up the audio passing to the speakers!?
thanks
Puncher: RussR: That seems like a question for the Onkyo forum! Shouldn't discourage anyone from connecting anything non-B&O to Lab 5's, you could ruin their life!
Sorry if I was unclear. I did try to help with the connection. My remark here was more about how to calibrate the set-up.