ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
All the reviews point out that the new avant doesn't have the required codec for 4k streaming and that the hdmi port is somehow not the latest and greatest.
Should I care?
I would like to buy one in the next month (I.e I can't wait or we will have no TV) and while I don't foresee streaming 4k in the next 18 months I don't want to have to feel stupid when netflix moves the majority of stuff to 4k.
B&O apparently wants an external box to do the 4k input but will that actually work if the hdmi is 'crippled'. I should also note that I am allergic to all external boxes except the Apple TV which I can hide in the machine.
I have a beovision 12 which I think has an incredible picture so I understand that 4k in and of itself is not required for excellence.
my main concern is that I am buying a TV that will stick around for 8 to 10 years. Would I be making a mistake. Is it better to buy the new 4k sony with the big built in speakers and wait for b and o to deliver a mkII, or see if I can get a used beovision 11 somewhere.
thanks for the advice.
P
I never had a 12, but i would just keep that and see how things pan out. The best TV for watching HD, is the best HD TV i.e. the 7-55 or the 12. SD the original Avant.
When UHD becomes mainstream, then and only then would i personally consider giving up my 7 but god knows what type of connections and boxes etc will be needed.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
The truth is that uhd is just in the beginning of taking shape. Living on the bleeding edge has always been costly and done through betatests with standards. Hdmi 2.2 will have uhd copy protection that makes streaming and viewing uhd content guarded so an avant with hdmi 1.4 is out for that if and when that standard gets out and be the norm. But hey that may never happen or may happen a long time away. Enjoy the avant and sell it when the next hdmi standard becomes the norm and a must. Who would want a tv with dvi and not hdmi today?
in summary, you should care and b&o should care. B&o have made a bad call here not keeping up with standards in spite of this tv being made up to be at the front of the uhd evolution. Other manufacturers have gone with a modular tech design because of a needed and expected evolution of the uhd standard so parts in the tv can be upgraded as needed for a time.A uhd tv without hdmi 2.x and not having the needed codecs that is standard for content viewing will not be able to play future content. A good looking tv without content is art not a tv.
Sorry was not clear. The beovision 12 is in a different house. So the option is to get an avant, try and find a used beovision 11 or a sony of some sort.
Thanks
p
No reason to wait
i received confirmation from a very reliable source a few weeks ago that B&O will release a software update later this year that will update all HDMI connectors to version 2.0.
HDMI 1 will furthermore get HDCP 2.2, while HDMI 2-6 will continue using HDCP 1.4
Please note that HDMI 6 in the easy access module cannot accept UHD and will not be able to accept UHD even after the software update.
It's awesome how they prepped for this, no hardware upgrade needed, just a sw update
Way to go B&O :-)
HHH:No reason to wait i received confirmation from a very reliable source a few weeks ago that B&O will release a software update later this year that will update all HDMI connectors to version 2.0. HDMI 1 will furthermore get HDCP 2.2, while HDMI 2-6 will continue using HDCP 1.4 Please note that HDMI 6 in the easy access module cannot accept UHD and will not be able to accept UHD even after the software update. It's awesome how they prepped for this, no hardware upgrade needed, just a sw update Way to go B&O :-)
If I 'very soon' would have to 'throw an Avant out of the window', because of the missing direct support for HEVC, I'd have to throw out all other BV's out too.
If the 4K content of Netflix is really that important, an external PUC controlled Box would do the job on the Avant (after the updating of the HDMI-port).
The much greater problem will be the tuners. When tv will be broadcasted in HEVC-standart too, we will need an extra, extra box for that.
When that will happen, noone knows - maybe at that time it will be time for a new tv anyway.
How can someone who claims to be 'allergic to all external boxes' even consider a 'Sony however 4K tv'?
That tv would mean external boxes - starting with the AppleTV - without PUC controlling, and a miserable remote control etc.
If you really want exellent PQ today, go for Bluray's on any of the newer BV's (including the 7-55's).
Besides - most people use their tv's most of the time for watching tv programs in less than FullHD quality. A direct support for a few Netflix 4K movies won't change anything there..
No tv as of today is prepared for the future, because we don't know yet, what the future will bring - not even the near future.
So - of cource we should care about the missing aupport for HEVC.
But it should not keep anyone away from buying an Avant today, if he/she likes it for the 'overall-performance'.
However, if your preference is watching 4K/Netflix, maybe you should buy a 'Sony however 4K tv' - and live with a non-B&O tv as it is.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
So am I correct in saying that if apple comes with an Apple TV that supports netflix 4k streaming (and I assume apple 4k streamed content) that it will be able to feed this into the TV through the software updated hdmi input?
In other words the hdmi input once updated will support 4k content that has already been uncompressed by some other external box
All very confusing I must say.
phult:So am I correct in saying that if apple comes with an Apple TV that supports netflix 4k streaming (and I assume apple 4k streamed content) that it will be able to feed this into the TV through the software updated hdmi input? In other words the hdmi input once updated will support 4k content that has already been uncompressed by some other external box All very confusing I must say.
BeoNut since '75
The 4k streaming "problem" depends of B&O's wise or no-so-wise decision to implement the corresponding chip which enables HDCP 2.2 but - as some people already told - the HEVC-codec is still missing. Now, after I've read some reviews of some 4K TVs, the Sony X9 B series seems to outperform all other 4K TVs (including the new Avant) in terms of picture- and soundquality. It even looks pretty attractive and the price is too with ca. 3000 Euro for the 55" version.And with a Beo 5 or 6 you can still use the B&O remote to control the Sony TV and other equipment.
So, the question is: Should we buy a 4K TV at this time or should we go for a highend Full-HD TV..!? Questions, decisions... :-)
elephant: Confusing I agree however the post up the upgrades is very comforting, and so I would place my bets on the next Apple TV "solving" the Netflix decode problem. Which just leaves worrying about whether the B&O engineers left enough space for whatever shape the next ATV takes ... and enough airways to keep it cool !
Confusing I agree however the post up the upgrades is very comforting, and so I would place my bets on the next Apple TV "solving" the Netflix decode problem.
Which just leaves worrying about whether the B&O engineers left enough space for whatever shape the next ATV takes ... and enough airways to keep it cool !
1: that depends on whether the '4K-ATV will/would come with its own HEVC decoder built in - or if they will let that rely on the decoding capasities of an external avr.
2: i guess very few people (if any) know how a/the 'new ATV' will look like.
Speculating on what Apple will do about 4K, Apple content and a new ATV is - imo - too early.
We can wish for..... but mostly the decisions of Apple are pretty unpredictable.
An excellent example of how difficult communcation can be.
HEVC is of relevance for the "Smart-tv" part of the set, and here B&O took a stand and decided not to make this the main focus of the TV. For the Avant, the "Smart-tv" function should come from add-on products like the Apple TV. The Avant will be able to handle HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 as stated above, so no issues here.
Panasonic and their AX800 shows some of the challenges here: the set has HEVC and Netflix - but the chip became outdated by the time Netflix actually started to stream 4k and the set can not show 4k from this provider by its Smart-tv-functon.
Roger
TWG: The 4k streaming "problem" depends of B&O's wise or no-so-wise decision to implement the corresponding chip which enables HDCP 2.2 but - as some people already told - the HEVC-codec is still missing. Now, after I've read some reviews of some 4K TVs, the Sony X9 B series seems to outperform all other 4K TVs (including the new Avant) in terms of picture- and soundquality. It even looks pretty attractive and the price is too with ca. 3000 Euro for the 55" version.And with a Beo 5 or 6 you can still use the B&O remote to control the Sony TV and other equipment. So, the question is: Should we buy a 4K TV at this time or should we go for a highend Full-HD TV..!? Questions, decisions... :-)
Is that a heating radiotor? Not my cup of tea!
By the way, I will never ever throw my Avant out the window. It´s +100 kgs!
Raeuber:Review at FlatpanelsHD: 'It is worth noting that Avant does not support HEVC - not even via a future software or hardware upgrade. This means that when broadcasters move from MPEG4 to HEVC in the future, you will need an external set-top box to watch TV on Avant. It is a shame because it also means saying goodbye to all of the twin-tuner and recording features. And you probably already know how bad most set-top boxes are. B&O is not alone here, and says that there was no option to implement HEVC in the Avant before its launch. Instead, you have to rely on an external box and the PUC system for the remote when the time for HEVC comes.' That's why I wouldn't go for the Avant at the moment, it will be outdated very soon. And also because of the poor upscaling quality of HD and SD material. If I would spend so much money for a TV I don't want to connect several external boxes (Oppo for good upscaling, Netflix box for real 4K, Tuner for 4K broadcast in the future). Regards Räuber
'It is worth noting that Avant does not support HEVC - not even via a future software or hardware upgrade. This means that when broadcasters move from MPEG4 to HEVC in the future, you will need an external set-top box to watch TV on Avant. It is a shame because it also means saying goodbye to all of the twin-tuner and recording features. And you probably already know how bad most set-top boxes are. B&O is not alone here, and says that there was no option to implement HEVC in the Avant before its launch. Instead, you have to rely on an external box and the PUC system for the remote when the time for HEVC comes.'
That's why I wouldn't go for the Avant at the moment, it will be outdated very soon. And also because of the poor upscaling quality of HD and SD material. If I would spend so much money for a TV I don't want to connect several external boxes (Oppo for good upscaling, Netflix box for real 4K, Tuner for 4K broadcast in the future).
Regards
Räuber
1: as far as I remember you use an external box to watch tv today.
So why all the fuss about another external box instead of the one you use now
Many BV owners today rely on an external box for watching tv - for different reasons.
2: this is where we disagree: "will be outdated soon" - I don't think that will be the case.
However, it is your choice not to buy the Avant - and you really don't need to at the moment, since you already have a nice setup.
Question was much more, if someone should buy the mentioned Sony (or similar) or do for the Avant?
It's always a personal choice - I would not trade in 'the values of a BV' for a Sony tv, which would allow me to watch a couple of compressed 4K Netflix-movies occationally.
As far as I know, there are no HEVC-based tuners available yet. We don't know the specs, and certainly not how the providers will handle the content (encryption/pay-tv). So for 4K-tv watching one would probably need an external box anyway - when time comes.
Spot on, MM.
Today, HEVC only has relevance for the Smart-TV-function in a television. For actual broadcasting, there are no signs indicating any transmissions using HEVC before 2020 (according to Flatpanels.dk).
So I agree with B&O's approach and strategy: Use an external box for HEVC handling of Smart-TV-functions. YouTube use another technology (VP9 codec), that is even more state-of-the-art (and further into the future, I guess - no Smart-TV can handle VP9 Codec 4k today), that could be just as relevant for Smart-TV-distribution of 4k as HEVC. Who knows. I, for sure, prefer to pick up a new Apple TV box or something similar as they update the chips in stead of depending on the hardware inside the TV.
Wouldn't it be better to pick up the next generation Apple-TV or similar STB with full support for 4k, including VP9 Codec giving you YouTube as well in 4k, in stead of replacing the TV every 12 months?
I myself won't use Netflix to stream 4K, even if NBN (national broadband network) is fully serviceable, I don't want to eat up my internet plan on a movie. I'd rather buy the disc, as I currently do with Blu Ray.
I myself, love the Sony 4K TV, and for B&O to release a TV after Sony and not to have the same generational features, is a bit embarrassing, I don't care what anyone says. We all know how tech goes. No one will want a TV with DVI vs HDMI.
On the other hand a 4K TV should handle 4K content. It's that simple.
If that is managed by a separate box, it goes against the design ethos of B&O to be a simple one solution. So B&O really end up like any manufacturer, a panel with an option to extend to several boxes (now some who have port replicator = good!).
B&O's POD (Point of Difference) really is Beo1 remote PUC controlling, and inbuilt sound processing, and design. Nothing more (at this stage). It certainly is an advantage.
Dear Michael,
why would you need PUC controlling, if you don't want any external devices (and even claim that these are against 'the design ethos of B&O')?
Aussie Michael: On the other hand a 4K TV should handle 4K content. It's that simple.
If handling 4K content was a simple task, B&O would have provided us the solution in the Avant.
If anyone could - please - define 4K content, I would be gratefull.
Hi MM
That was a general statement about the benefits of an Avant now.
Cheers
MH
Aussie Michael:I myself won't use Netflix to stream 4K, even if NBN (national broadband network) is fully serviceable, I don't want to eat up my internet plan on a movie. I'd rather buy the disc, as I currently do with Blu Ray. I myself, love the Sony 4K TV, and for B&O to release a TV after Sony and not to have the same generational features, is a bit embarrassing, I don't care what anyone says. We all know how tech goes. No one will want a TV with DVI vs HDMI. On the other hand a 4K TV should handle 4K content. It's that simple. If that is managed by a separate box, it goes against the design ethos of B&O to be a simple one solution. So B&O really end up like any manufacturer, a panel with an option to extend to several boxes (now some who have port replicator = good!). B&O's POD (Point of Difference) really is Beo1 remote PUC controlling, and inbuilt sound processing, and design. Nothing more (at this stage). It certainly is an advantage.
So I am still confused.
If Apple TV comes out with a box that supports 4k will the Avant be able to take that signal through its (upgraded) HDMI port and display it. Or could there be some copy protection in the signal that the upgraded HDMI port still can't decode?
I don't care about broadcast TV and am not worried that it doesn't support 4k broadcast TV.
Best
Philip
phult:So I am still confused. If Apple TV comes out with a box that supports 4k will the Avant be able to take that signal through its (upgraded) HDMI port and display it. Or could there be some copy protection in the signal that the upgraded HDMI port still can't decode? I don't care about broadcast TV and am not worried that it doesn't support 4k broadcast TV. Best Philip
mawheele:I don't think you can compare hardware and software features. I couldn't disagree more with this POV. We are moving into an abstracted software defined era and it sounds like b&o know that investing in their own onboard smart platform is a waste of resources and best to look at creating value through different external software layers. In this instance b&o couldn't have got it more right with the software upgrade to hdmi and Hdcp and to let the Eco system get their media to the screen.