ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear members,
I'm trying a Beogram 4000 that I have connected to a Beomaster 7000 (with RIAA - thanks Graham) and Pentas. Sounds stunning. However, I had it for repair and it worked perfectly at the repair shop. Now that I'm using it for the first time here it seems that the tone arm doesn't move along the record when playing. I guess it is something minor since I highly doubt that something happend when moving the deck from the repair shop to my place. What could the cause be? Can it have something to do with the tracking weight? I'm using a MMC 6000. What's the correct tracking weight for a MMC 6000 by the way?
Greetings,
Kai
Hi Kai,
1g for the MMC6000. I haven't got a working 6000 as it needs to go to Axel. I would have thought it may be wasted on the BG4000 as it's primarily for 4Ch use which the BG4000 hasn't got.
Adjust the tracking weight accordingly and see what happens. I'd be tempted to use a different cartridge on the BG4000 such as an MMC20CL or even an EN at the right tracking weights and see how it goes.
Are the transport screws fully unfastened and the turntable level? What cartridge was used at the repair shop?
Dave.
This series of decks are notoriously prone to needing adjustments after moving them. This is the main reason that I stopped selling them.
My guess would be a small adjustment of the tracking weight OR a minor adjustment of the servo shutter system.
Regards Graham
What Graham said - or a bad lamp in the tracking servo system.
Martin
Thanks guys! I picked it up in person and moved it very gently. So that shouldn't be the problem. How can I adjust the servo shutter system?
And: how can I remove the cartridge. I don't want to break anything and the hold seems to break easily.
Greetings
I'll try a different cartridge.
To be a bit more precise: what happens is that the Beogram 4000 plays the record and the needle moves to the left. However, the carriage with both arms on it doesn't move. Therefore the tone arm leans more and more to the sensor arm as the record progresses and at some stage when touching the sensor arm can't continue moving, resulting in an infinite loop.
However, when not playing a record the carriage moves just the way it should.
The problem seems to be that the carriage just stops moving after the tonearm has lowered. However, it works perfectly as long as no record is playing. Any tips? Thanks!
Sorry, was going to suggest the small belt had come off, but of course it wouldn't move at all then.
Remove the cartridge by wiggling it gently side to side while pulling forwards.
But be very careful as the connector can snap off-I know as it happened to me!
Thanks a lot. I doubt that the cartridge is the problem. It's just that the carriage doesn't move when the tone arm lowers. Apparently it still did that at the repair shop. It also worked the last time I used it prior to repair...
Greetings.
No, the cartridge has nothing to do with it.
However, do check that the small belt attached to the servo motor is doing its job: it should turn the small wheel slowly which then moves the arms along the track. Check it isn't slipping.
Just travelling on the seat of your car is enough to knock the servo out of adjustment.
The method of adjustment is the same as all the 4000 series decks and can be found in the service manual which is available on this site.
You will need to get familiar with all the adjustments if you are to have a good relationship with your 4000
What do you mean by servo adjustment? I've read through the manual and can't identify which of the numerous adjustments you are referring to. Thanks a lot!
I've now opened the thing up and had a closer look. The motor stops entirely rotating as soon as the tone arm lowers.
I think the bulb has had it, or a solder somewhere along its feed. Can you see it glow in the dark?
Jacques
Sorry, in the 4000 manual they call it the Diaphragm at the top of page 4-6. The sensitive adjustment is Screw B having loosened Screw C..
I can only speak from my own experience. This is the adjustment that has moved when I have supplied this type of deck through the courier system.
Of course Chartz could be correct and the bulb has gone altogether.
Which bulb are you talking about? The one in the sensor arm? This sounds interesting. When I first tried it, the lamp was completely out causing the tone arm not to lower. However, after cleaning and touching the thing, it suddenly went on again and the tone arm lowered as it should. However, there still is the problem that now the carriage doesn't move after the tone arm has lowered. Could that be caused by the light although the bulb in the sensor arm is on?
What I have also discovered: I followed tha advice from the manual and removed the drive belt. No matter how much I rotate the platter, the carriage doesn't move at all which it's apperently supposed to.
Any ideas?
As I suggested in my previous thread, have you checked the small belt that drives the arms along the track?
If this is worn or slipping, or not aligned properly, the arms will not move across.
So then, do you see the diaphragm bulb glow or not? To see it, remove the top plate and the platter. Just to make sure, verify that there is voltage at its legs.
Sorry for asking but which one is the diaphragm bulb? The only bulb on the inside that I can see glow is the orange/red one next to the mirror.
I've changed th small belt with a new one I still had but nothing changes. So it's definitely not the belt.
That is the strobe light.
The diaphragm light is next to the arm pillar. The bulb is enclosed in a dark box so it is a bit difficult to see it.
Ok, so it's not the belt.
The orange bulb is the neon for the strobe: the bulb chartz is talking about is at the back and not obvious as it's under a black cover. However, you should still be able to see it, assuming it is working!
You will need to pull off the cover to access it, if it needs replacing.
I'm not sure where to look. However, there is only one small black cover I can see on right on the carriage beneath the arms which is fixed on the carriage with two screws. Is this the one you are talking about?
In any event, I can't see any other light no matter where I look. A picture might be helpful however. Is replacing difficult to do? I would have a donor here if replacement is needed...
So there. The bulb is under that black plastic cover. As I said, it can be taken out (two screws) to replace the bulb. But check voltage first.
Ok, this is exactly where I've looked. I can't see any light there. What do you mean by check voltage first?
Thanks so much for the hint!
Cheers
Make sure that there is voltage at the bulb's legs. If there is, then the bulb is kaput.
There should be about 6V between points 1 (ground)-2. On later versions the second leg of the build is connected to point 3. The trimmer adjusts light power.
I'll just try swapping. Doesn't seem to be too much effort and chances are high that the bulb is broken. And I know that the other Beogram didn't have that problem... How do you remove the bulb itself? Pull it off or rotate it out?
I have now removed the top cover on both Beogram 4000s. The bulb is clearly not working. So I guess you were right. Now the only question remains whether it's the bulb itself or the voltage. Unfortunately I can't measure voltage but will try swapping.
Thanks so much!
Any old 4.5V flashlight bulb will allow you to know there is voltage. Beware of shorts though!
I have none of those. My assembly looks a bit different in that area too as compared to the one in your picture.
Sorry for asking again: how do you remove the bulb? Does it rotate of pull right off? Can you remember that? It doesn't come of easily and I don't wanna break anything.
It is soldered to the PCB. You need a soldering iron, plus skills to do it. You probably don't have the adjustable resistor, that's all.
And you tell me that now? No, I can't do that. Kinda strange construction.
The bottom line from my expeirence with Beogram 4000s is:
I would very strongly recommend anybody to keep away from those no matter how highly regarded they are. They are all broken in one way or the other, finding someone qualified to work on them is close to impssoble and therefore you will end up spending and spending without getting much enjoyment out of them.
I'll complete the task that I have begun but I would not recommend anybody to do likewise.
Yes, they require some dedication. But as anything electronic, they do require some skills - and the ability to read a service manual - to do the job!
Perhaps you were a bit naive thinking you'd be able to fix it with a screwdriver!
But then why not learn, even if a Beogram 4000 is not the simplest to deal with...
Nothing strange, soldered bulbs are very common.
Still - I always wonder how people talk about some items. From my experience now I'd just stay away from the Beogram 4000. Any other recommendation is - ohm, you know what I'm about to say. Same with the old Beovoxes. I'd stay away from them as far as possible. They are all broken and if not already it happens in transport. So why still recommend them? It's just not reasonable knowing that they won't work properly anyway. A sound recommendation would be: they were great when new. Yes, maybe. But they are 30+ years old now and as I've said certainly won't work as new. And if you are not a really trained technician you could just as well throw the money out of the window. Just my 2 cents.
Ok, I'm frustrated now. That adds to my mood.
Okay then, I rest my case. We appear to have different goals. Me, it's the lack of money which leads me into buying old things. So it is not a waste of money, quite the opposite actually. And then there's the hobby - fixing old hifi.
Why not take it back to the repairers.It must under some form of warranty, right ?
chartz: Okay then, I rest my case. We appear to have different goals. Me, it's the lack of money which leads me into buying old things. So it is not a waste of money, quite the opposite actually. And then there's the hobby - fixing old hifi.
Some of us do like to repair old B&O, one reason is, its repairable, today's electronics mostly not, it may be a waste of money or time, in some peoples opinion, but we keep them alive and have the joy of seeing (hearing) them working every day. So I must agree with Jacques on this
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Dear Martin,
yes, I will do that. There is warranty and something apparently is not working.
@Jacques: thanks for all your help and patience. At least the cause is now most probably found. My comment was not directed towards you.
I don't think our viewpoints are that different. However, for now, I'm quite frustrated but will let you know when the Beogram 4000 is up and running again.
Thanks again!
Cheers,
Hi everybody,
thanks for contributing to the thread and helping find the cause. It was the blown lamp. After changing the lamp everything works as it should.However, the lamps on both my Beogram 4000s were not soldered in but T5 type socket lamps that pull right out. Only thing that worries me a bit now is that the motor is sometimes a little noisy when moving backwards. Other than that all seems to be worling as it should and the sound is decent.
Another note: I've tried polishing the lid. I only tried for an hour without using abrasive paper. However, many scratches are already removed or at least better. Only the deep ones probably need more drastic methods. What I've also found is that the lid loses maybe a little of its clearness because of the polishing but it's not that bad.
I'm still not sure whether I would generally recommend buying a Beogram 4000 with the intent to use it except for if you are prepared to take the time and nerves that will be needed to get it running again. It's great that there are knowledgeable people here on this forum that can assist finding faults. However, spare parts are a big problem and finding somebody qualified for repairing a Beogram 4000 nearby is a hard task. It's a fantastic deck but after 40 years most will require some work. Mine was from the original owner and running. However, until I got it entirely working took me close to a year and a couple 100 Euros now. Ok, I'm a perfectionist and if somebody can live with more flaws than I can, life may be a little easier.
Thanks again to everybody helping me on this issue.
You are welcome Kai.