ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have a full body –slam repair story to share. I post this in the lifestyle section, first because it is intended more for entertainment than education, but also because this is a non-B&O product: my Seeburg M100B jukebox. If you wish, you can think of it as a very large and heavy phonograph.
I have owned this jukebox for 29 years, and like my B&O Beograms and Beomasters I have done very little in the way of repair in regard to the M100B up until now.
So how BAD can a repair go? Well pretty bad actually….. read on and you’ll see.
It started innocently enough with really terrible sound quality on the B-side play, which eventually evolved into the stylus jumping backwards. As the records are played vertically pressure is required to keep the needle in the grooves.
While adjusting the tonearm tension springs with no warning whatsoever the turntable stopped and a cloud of black smoke belched from behind the mechanism, which turned out to be an ominous sign of things to come.
I decided to see if I could “charm” the mechanism back to life by rocking it slightly and like magic the mechanism went to play another record only in route this time accompanied the black smoke was a VERY expensive sounding hiss coming from the selector receiver in the bottom of the jukebox.
There was no option at this juncture other than to remove the mechanism from the jukebox and give it a thorough examination, cleaning, and lubrication.
Out with the Seeburg manual: remove back doors, records, record assembly, both mirrors, and disconnect wires going to selector buttons, selector receiver, and amplifier. Then take out the entire mechanism assembly with tracks in place.
The inspection from all sides offered no explanation for the black smoke, but I spent a day with contact cleaner for all the numerous mechanical contacts, the clutch taken apart and cleaned with rubbing alcohol as was most everything other than contracts, which also required sanding paper.
The all important clutch can not be lubricated with the mechanism in place, so it had not been lubed in 30 years.
When all was done I was amazed at how good the mechanism looked. Other than a few nicks in the orange paint, the mechanism looked basically new. (I started to feel pretty good about this whole unintended project.)
Put the mechanism and all components back in the jukebox looking forward to see how all the cleaning and lubrication would have the mechanism moving effortlessly from side to side and accepting records.
Hit the play command and now the black smoke had sparks, a LOT of sparks shooting from just above the mechanism. Turns out that the problem was a tiny bit of insulation wear on one wire going to the actuator for the popularity meter.
OK, a bit of electrical tape solved the short issue and a lesson learned from my Beomaster 4400, I applied a piece of electrical tape on the inside of the actuator housing, just in case that wire became exposed again. (An ounce of prevention…. like the piece of plastic behind the on/off switch on the BM4400)
Problem solved, but as I was in this deep, I decided to take out the selector key assembly and clean all the contacts….. might as well do the whole job.
Contacts cleaned, it was time to see what this Seeburg could do with everything in pristine perfect condition, hit the ON switch and the mechanism began playing record after record as I had apparently pressed a whole lot of pins while cleaning the selector assembly. Once the last record played I made my first selection but the selector keys no longer worked and the green SELECT lamp was out.
Time to call for help: testing wires for continuity, fuses, connections, etc. Found a slo-burn fuse was bad, but replacement didn’t do anything. Also discovered a “dead” ground wire, spent a lot of time on that one, only to discover it wasn’t dead.
Here I got a message, “Something is very wrong.” Ya think? So this guy in the UK asked if by any remote chance the center yoke might have broken off in the 7 pin plug going from the selector assembly and the selector receiver.
Yep, it had and I could see from the indentation in the plug that there had been a yoke and it had a notch which corresponded with a notch in the female socket. With the plug aligned correctly the green SELECT lamp appeared, which indicated that free play had been restored. Hallelujah!
I figured I was home free. Nope, the free play may have been restored, but the selector keys were still non-functional.
Messages from my three helpful experts turned dark which much talk about the hissing sound in the selector receiver and all the damage that could have been done from the misaligned pins. My help was basically signing off suggesting shipping the selector receiver to a shop for professional repair.
One “advisor” was still keen on cleaning the contacts in the selector receiver while the other remaining advisor said, “It wouldn’t hurt and besides there is nothing left to do.”
So I start yanking the plugs out of the selector receiver when I noticed 2 pins in the 16 pin plug had retracted into the plug. Pulled the 2 pins out with pliers and they snapped back in place. Plugged in the 16 pin plug and the selector buttons were back.
Six weeks I had been working on this repair fiasco…. all because B-side play was faulty. If that wire hadn’t shorted out I doubt I would have had the courage to take the mechanism out…. that was a big job.
In the end I got to learn a LOT about my Seeburg while gaining a whole new appreciation for what can be done with a series of sequential mechanical operations.
The icing on the experience cake is the mechanism now just floats near silently while playing records with style….. and with the selector buttons out, I was able to really clean the moving light display which is now VIBRANT rather than subdued. Victory!
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Congrats Jeff, very good to hear. Because I have nearly the same problems with my Mexican made Wurlitzer Sinfonola from 1970/73, half a year ago I wanted to get it up and running again, it had been standing without play for 3-4 years. I loaded in the 50 singles, and selected various songs, it played the first 2-3 records fine, but with some distortion because of the the old stiff platter belts. I decided to give it a good clean and lub. After that I selected a pair of melodies, And as you had, also here black smoke. I turned it off immediately, Took out the record carousel, the select wheel and disassembled the select wheel to get at the switches and magnet coils. Until now I found 4 micro switches, 2 resistors, 1 diode in bad shape, furthermore inside the cabinet various loose connections. Thats where I got to last weekend, Now only to do, power supply unit, select unit, amplifier and the coin unit.
So 6 weeks is a good tip. Good to hear that I am not the only one
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hi Søren,
As you say, we are never alone in these “problems,” and certainly not with the camaraderie of friends here at BeoWorld. No sir, you are NOT the only one.
The difference between your jukebox and mine is primarily the vintage: your issues are electrical while mine were almost entirely clean/lube mechanical.
I was so pleased with the final victory that I decided to go after the one neglected part of my jukebox, the back, so I spend a couple of hours sanding the two large interconnecting pieces until they were suitably smooth, primed them, and painted them Seeburg chocolate brown. (Primer as you can’t paint Latex over 1951 oil paint, and three coats of the brown.)
The back is rather industrial looking, but it looks MORE than presentable. The third coat isn’t quite dry, so I’ll have to wait until tomorrow to put it all back together.
One thing to know for anyone attempting to restore an old jukebox, when you clean and lubricate moving parts it changes the friction dynamics (for the better) but initially expect “issues,” lots of ‘em.
Everything is done mechanically in sequence and anything out of sync can cause records to be rejected (as they aren’t detected), end of play coming too soon, and repeat plays…. I had one 14 times, same record. [I may not listen to Da Do Run Run again this year!]
The trick is not to panic and start adjusting things, better to let the lubrication settle in, and then most of these issues will just fade away.
In my case the hub that holds the records in place was slightly too low and needed adjustment, as did the end of play. Worked fine before the cleaning, but once all was pristine, the tiny arm moved too fast and triggered the end of play switch too soon. An easy fix.
Let us know when you get your going again!
P.S. Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it. Makes the effort required all the more worth it!
NIce story Jeff and a good result. It seems that my life is full of tales like yours - as I expect more -knacklers' are.
I have some classic cars which always need something doing - fix one thing and another problem mysteriously appears. The other things I have that this happens to are 2 pinball machines ('Star Trek the Next Generation' and 'The Twilight Zone'). If it's not bulbs or bridge rectifiers it's something else. Constant adjustments and repairs to make.
I'd love a jukebox but haven't got any space to put one with all the B&O gear in the house!
Patience and perseverence.
Dave.
Hi Dave,
Yes, there is something SPECIAL about a jukebox, the icon of the forties and fifties.
I love classic cars too; at the height of my “collection” I had everything from a ’82 Renault R5, ’70 Buick Estate Wagon, to a ’59 Cadillac Coupe de Ville, another icon for you.
Of course the reason I now “collect” B&O products instead of cars was the ’37 Rolls-Royce 25/30 Hooper Sports Saloon. Dearly loved that car. but never have I seen anything or anyone that could burn through money like that 25/30.
I am sure you know what a “money pit” an antique car can be.
Thanks for commentary and similar tales!