ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi Everyone,
I suppose all of you have noticed the last few years revival of the vinyl records market.As many of you, I have a collection of vinyls and recently wanted to get back that warm, dynamic sound that I grew up with after years with CD's an MP3's.
I started buying B&O stuff in the early 90's and was fortunate enough to buy one of the last Beogram 3300.It hasn't been used much since my main source of music since then has been CD's and then later streaming from iTunes or Spotify, and I always thought the sound from the Beogram 3300 never was especially good in comparison.
A while ago when visiting a friend who is truly an audiophile, he played some music on his old Technics turntable and we compared it to the sound from streaming Spotify via Airplay to a connected Airport Express and Mcintosh amplifiers and Martin Logan speakers. The vinyl player was definitely the winner with it's natural, dynamic sound.
I was inspired to start using my Beogram instead of just having it as a cool design gadget.
Unfortunately, in my setup, the sound from the vinyl is not even close to compressed MP3 files with it comes to dynamic, frequency range.. it sounds muffled and flat. It works, but not enjoyable compared even to streaming media. Since the stylus can lose it's flexibility ( so I have heard) I bought a new MMC4 from Axel at Schallplattennadeln. This just helped marginally, so that wasn't the problem obviously.
The beogram 3300 is connected to an external RIAA box ( no- name, but sold and recommended by my dealer at the time, who has a long experience as B&O dealer), Then connected to the Beolink converter and the Beovision 3 and Beosound 2300 and Beolab 8000 and Beolab 6000 as rears.All seems properly connected and I can even remote control the Beogram.
The sound is not really bad, but its dull, flat and not really enjoyable..
Do yo have any tips and tricks how to pimp up this setup?
Thanks
Peter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Beovision 7-40 Mk VI, Beovision 3-32, Beovision AV9000, Beovision AV5, Beolab 8000, 6000, 5000, 3000, 2000, Beocenter 2300, 9000, Beocenter 2, DVD1, DVD2, Beogram 3300, LC2, Beolit 12, 3 x AppleTV
Is there any difference from one record to other or are they all sounding the same ?
I ask because I also find some records "flatter" sounding than others. Poor recording/wear and tear ?
Hi Valve1,
Thanks for your reply!
I found it the same with all my records. Actually I recently bought a nice package of some soul recordings from the 70's where the original sound has been remixed and remastered. The package contained an vinyl LP, as CD and MP3 downloads of the same album.
The CD and the MP3's in my setup is hard to tell the difference, both sounds great with great dynamic especially in the bass. Clear, inspiring sound. On the LP it just sounds flat and dull in comparison...
I wonder if another RIAA pre-amp would make a difference?..
Interesting to hear you have the same experience...
Cheers,
Why not borrow your friends turntable and see what difference that makes. If it sounds flat and boring as well, you have ruled out the turntable. Maybe what you need is a Soundsmith cartridge - more dynamic and exciting that the very polite B&O cartridge.
Agree with Peter, could be the cartridge - I notice a big difference between two that I have on beograms and also against an older Sansui turntable - the RIAA amp will also make a difference, I guess it's the equivalent almost of todays DACs - I use a Rega preamp that cost around £100 and there is a massive difference between that and the cheaper £20 maplin one I used before.
I guess it's all subjective, Vinyl to me sounds brilliant when I have played that as my first source, however if I switch between digital and vinyl I am sometimes disappointed But as others have said the content and recording itself can obviously play a part. New Vinyl is also sometimes not as good as old vinyl.
I suggest at minimum an MMC3 or SMMC3 and a decent RIAA Amp.
Also check that your tracking weight is actually what it states as these can go out of calibration over time.
Another thing to note is that B&O turntables are great for what they are, but they are not the be all and end all of turntables.
They are defiantly not bad enough to be critical of the sound though, so I doubt its the turntable at fault in your case.
Hi Peter
I am listening to vinyl for more than 30 years and i also like to compare vinyl to CD's (and SACD's). In the living room we have a beogram 4500 with a regular MMC2, a Beomaster 7000 connected to a pair of Beolab 3's, a Beogram CD 7000 and a Beocord 7000. SACD's we play with a NAD T535. When we compare newer packages, the vinyl always sounds better or at least equal than the CD.
So our equippment isalmost the same concerning quality and time of production than yours. At my opinion, your setup (as new) should produce more or less the same result than our setup. As most of your equipment is more than 20 years old, i suspect that one (ore more than one) device of your setup is faulty. Most probably the faulty device is at the beginning of the chain (Beogram, preamp, input section of the Beosystem 2300). I recommend to swap the devices one by one (for example with devices of your friend or from a dealer). I would start with the RIAA Preamp and then with the beogram. Be careful that you use a RIAA-preamp that fits your moving micro coil (MMC).
Good luck, i am sure that you will enjoy your vinyl again, reproduced with a proper working system.
Best regards
David
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the useful input!
Yes, I wish my friend with the Technics turntable lived closer. It would have been interesting to swap and hear the difference. I also been thinking about the stylus /cartridge. I am aware that the MMC4 is perhaps not the most advanced one, but checking the Soundsmith SMMC2, the price seems a bit steep though..I did however change the whole cartridge though, not only the stylus..
As some of you suggested, I think I will check the RIAA pre-amp first and see if that makes any changes. There might be a few good ones out there.. Rega, etc..any other suggestions that are know as being good?
Thanks!
Ps, and thanks for the input that my setup should be able to sound really good! its all about a little tweaking then.. :)
Axle in Germany is about half the price of Sound Smith and general consensus is that his cartridges are more warmer sounding then Sound Smith.
In my experience, original B&O cartridges do sound warm, but an old cartridge often sounds dull. A new tip will restore the cartridge's character.
That said, old cartridges bore me to death (I usually give them a wide berth) and I much prefer the sound of modern cartridges, like those made by the Soundsmith, so dynamic and detailed. They do give CD a run for its money.
I was nonetheless really surprised by an SP7 cartridge with new conical tip when I got my BG1000 two months ago!
Jacques
Out of curiosity, but what is a decent riaa preamp today; I've currently been using for many years a NAD PP-2 preamp together with my Beogram 2000 + MMC2 which I've been happy with; but not nothing anything else there might be room for improvement. The audio sounds warm and nice.
The storyline is that over the years the Beogram has been part of several setups as it was my absolutely first B&O products which I got as a birthday present 1986. First years it was connected to Onkyo amps and many years later it hooked up with my girlfriend's (now wife) Beocenter 9000 and then later it was connected to Beosound 9000. Currently it's being connected to Sonos Zoneplayer which is connected to BeoPort. So that way I've connected the Beogram to my ML-network. While I admit that connecting it via the Sonos isn't the best option; but currently the only setup which is possible as the BS9000 is wallmounted with hidden cables so it's not possible to connect it directly to BS9000 (might be that there are any of the link boxes that might be used to connect the Beogram directly to the ML?).