ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have been waiting many years without buying a new Audio system from B&O.. I have always been first mover, bought all my systems over the years (BS4500/BS7000/BS3000/BC2/BS9000) normally when they were launched, as I was astonished with the moving parts, and the look and feel of B&O..
Really wanted the BS5 when it came out, until I heard about the PC problems and the embedded XP opererating system, and as a software developer, I could not get my self to pay that kind of money for a windows XP computer with a fancy mouse attached..
Then I heard about the Moment, and was excited, have been waiting a long time to see and hold it, and I am really really dissapointed.. It is completely missing all the things I expect from my past experience with B&O, the design is boring and nothing is mooving, the software seems overly complex, and it is not even finished yet, I really don't need to learn gestures for more devices, to use my audio system..
Then I had a thought today at work.. I am working with a former worker at B&O, he had a lot to do with software, was one of the guys on the 2300 DAB prototype, he coded a lot for the BL7000 remote, and we started talking, and suddenly it hit me...
The "Moment" I would buy without a thought today, would be an upgraded version of the BS3000, I love the sliding glassdors, I love the light that is shining on the disc..
However, it should not have the CD player, it should have "the panel" from the moment, but in a vertical version that still could be detached, and also placed both sides out. One way to just look nice, and one way as a display with the tablet.
That way I would have my "fix" of moving parts, and still have the new features of the Moment..
I will not be buying the Moment any time soon, it would be at least a year, until I find out if B&O this time actually delivers their promise of getting the software up and running. I am not very happy with beeing beta tester for products..
Am I totally wrong here ? or am I just getting old ? :)
/Weebyx
You're not getting old, and you're one of many who are still trying to figure out the Moment. I think there are expectations people have for a product from B&O. These expectations are set from years of experience and reputation. The Moment seems to be anti to a lot of B&O's DNA in many respects, and maybe will shed light on where the company is headed.
The Beosouond 5 was B&O's answer to a digital media sound system. The Moment, one could say is the evolution of that first attempt, or would it be a completely different philosophy?
Since both the Beosound 5 and the Moment are currently on B&O's website as sound systems, maybe the Moment is less of an evolution as another way of thinking about musical access.
I may be one of the few here, who REALLY REALLY liked the Beosound 5 / encore mechanics. Up close, it was engaging to operate, and it could be operated from afar by remote, and the large screen would display your interactions results. It looked like nothing else out there. It had a lot of B&O's magical DNA.
I love your idea of a Beosound with the ouverture / 2500 / 4000 / 3200 / 3000 sliding doors for access to a tablet which can be removed from the dock.
How about a screen behind the docking position of the tablet which constantly shows what's playing behind the glass doors as well? So the tablet can actually be a remote, and the base station can also be functional and beautiful.
You speak to me from the heart. Also I am disappointed, because I love my master link and the teamwork of the devices.
BeoVision 7-40 HD-Modul, BeoViision 11-40, BeoVision 8 32" white + Floor Stand, 2x Apple TV 4 mit Kodi, DVD2, HDR2, BeoSound 9000 MKIII White Edition, 2x BeoSound Moment + Floor Stand, 2x BeoSound Stage, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 35 brass, BeoSound 1 MKII + Floor Stand, 2x BeoSound 3, BeoSound 6, BeoSound 3200, BeoSound Essence , BeoPlay A9 Nordic Sky twilight, BeoPlay A8 MKII white + Floor Stand, BeoPlay A2 grey, 2x BeoPlay A3 white/bright blue, BeoPlay A1, 2x BeoPlay S3 white, Beolit 12 (White Edition), Beogram TX2, BeoLab 5, BeoLab 3, BeoLab 7-4, BeoLab 8000 MKII, Beolab 11, 2x BeoLab 3500, 4x LC2, 4x Beo4 - MK1-3, BeoRemonte One BT, 2x BeoRemonte Halo, Audio Terminal, Beolink 1000, BeoLink 7000, 2x EarSet A8, 3x A9 Keyring, EarSet 2, Form2, BeoPlay H6, 3x BeoTime, Beowatch, 2x Lightmanager Pro+ B&o Version, 4x BeoCom5, Beoline2, 3x Speakerphone, BeoTalk 1200, 5x Cabinets, MLGW, BLGW,
lonfred:The best that existed before was to expand my ML system with a new magic product then just choose one of 6 option and it was up and running without any problems.
ML was indeed a fantastic product but its a thing of the past. B&O choose a new way, the modern way with network compatibility. I am very happy that B&O still doing his best effort not to forget older customers with a ML-link and try's to integrate his network products in the best way. Can you tell me what other brand of audio would do that?
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
I think many of us grew up with the B&O aluminium and glass era which we now see as the basic elements for B&O products while the wood era that now seems the 'new' step is going back to the roots for B&O. So, the Moment, doesn't do it for me, I'm not a big fan of the wood panel, but I have to admit that it did look better than expected when I visited my favorit dealer in Malmo. But, if B&O would release an updated version of BeoSound 5 Encore which have a improved gui for larger music archives including 24-bit audio support (as the Moment) and as well provided me with ML-connectivity or NL-connectivity (as it now seems that there will be a NL/ML Converter Light); I would buy the unit directly.
I have been playing with ideas very Close to this. I imagine the center ofte my overture partly replaced by oak and and a display. If i Can fit in a raspberry pi with wolfson audio board i AM All set to drive my bl5s digitally from an amazing looking audio system. MayBe some of us should form a b&o hacker's group.
kimhav: .....provided me with ML-connectivity or NL-connectivity (as it now seems that there will be a NL/ML Converter Light);
.....provided me with ML-connectivity or NL-connectivity (as it now seems that there will be a NL/ML Converter Light);
There is no 'NL/ML Converter Light'!!!
It was just my way of describing a new 'ML-AudioMaster replacement box' in another recent thread!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Chris: lonfred:The best that existed before was to expand my ML system with a new magic product then just choose one of 6 option and it was up and running without any problems. ML was indeed a fantastic product but its a thing of the past. B&O choose a new way, the modern way with network compatibility. I am very happy that B&O still doing his best effort not to forget older customers with a ML-link and try's to integrate his network products in the best way. Can you tell me what other brand of audio would do that?
+1 on that!
Sorry - but I can not see the point in putting a tablet behind glassdoors... " />
I understand the the Moment is not the high-end high-priced Audio system, like their previously Audio systems. But then I must say.. I miss the high-end, high-priced systems.. I would be happy to pay 5-1000 euro more, to have more of the exiting feeling of the "old" B&O..
To me it seems that they have build a lot of what the Moment can do(without mood-wheel and tablet off-course) into the latest televisions. If I just would like to hear music from Deezer, then the new Avant can do this for me without issue, or even my BS3000, or BS7000 in the office can do this with an attached Airport Express.. Yes something is missing, but still, 80% can be achieved with my old stuff.
There is no reason for me to buy the Moment, I have money to spend, and I have been waiting for years for the next high-end Audio system, but it just isn't there, and I cant see it in the future.. That is a shame, but B&O is in a lot of trouble.. I know that, they lost a lot of money on the problems with production of the Avant tv, and the Moment has been to complex SW wise, that it has to be released without the full functionallity. It is such a shame, and I am very worried about the future..
In Denmark there is a HUGE 2'nd life market for the BS2300/BS3000 and even the older BS6500/7000 systems, They are very cheap, about 4-600 euro for a complete set, in pretty good condition. I suspect this must be because people are still loving these elderly simpel B&O systems. And not so much the new systems.
Years ago all my friends bought new B&O systems, tv's and audio systems, this I don't see anymore..
Today I just saw the last episode of a Danish TV station, that has made 10 episodes about the B&O history, the last was an interview with Tue and some finacial guy from the stock market, and Tue said that today, the buyers of the B&O Play products, were 15 years younger than the buyers of the "real" B&O, but they started to see the Play buyers moving up into the "real" products.. This is interresting, and we must hope that this will spell a new future for B&O.. There is no doubt that Tue is focusing on the younger(and possibly first time) buyers with the Moment. Let's see what happens..
The financial guy was sure that in 10 years, there would still be the brand Bang & Olufsen, but not the company as we see today. He didn't say what the company would look like in his thoughts though.
Talked to my dealer yesterday, and he said that he had 10-15 old existing customers that he NEW he could sell the Moment to.. If only it was a finished product that easely could replace there old Audio Master, without the need to buy 1000's of euro's priced converterboxes to get it "almost" working as their old audio master.. They all were standing with 2200 euro in the hand to buy "the latest new audio system", until they saw it and heard what it could NOT do yet.. As as sales person it was very frustrating for him, because in 6 months when the system can do all the promised things, maybe the 2200 euro has been spend on a vacation, or something else..
I just don't know. We will see in a few years, I think this is the timeline that defines if Tue's new strategy is working, but they need to get the SW department, and the production sorted out.. and VERY fast..
For now I will stick to my newly bought BS3000 conected to a BL7-2 in the livingroom and Beolab 3500 in the bedroom to satisfy my music needs with streaming from the wallmounted iPad..
And the BS7000/BL7000 in the office, it still gives me the old smile on the face when using the remote :)
Weebyx: In Denmark there is a HUGE 2'nd life market for the BS2300/BS3000 and even the older BS6500/7000 systems, They are very cheap, about 4-600 euro for a complete set, in pretty good condition. I suspect this must be because people are still loving these elderly simpel B&O systems. And not so much the new systems.
And why is that?
It is because a lot of people want to get rid of this old stuff - they don't use it anymore!
There are far too many 2'nd hand BS2300 etc on the market - no one wants to buy them....
.....which again keeps the price low.
I would buy the Beosound moment if I can integrate them by Masterlink as a Slave and a Multiroomfunktion would have by airplay, That I could serve Beoplay A8, A9 and Playmaker.
Weebyx:I understand the the Moment is not the high-end high-priced Audio system, like their previously Audio systems. But then I must say.. I miss the high-end, high-priced systems.. I would be happy to pay 5-1000 euro more, to have more of the exiting feeling of the "old" B&O.. To me it seems that they have build a lot of what the Moment can do(without mood-wheel and tablet off-course) into the latest televisions. If I just would like to hear music from Deezer, then the new Avant can do this for me without issue, or even my BS3000, or BS7000 in the office can do this with an attached Airport Express.. Yes something is missing, but still, 80% can be achieved with my old stuff. There is no reason for me to buy the Moment, I have money to spend, and I have been waiting for years for the next high-end Audio system, but it just isn't there, and I cant see it in the future.. That is a shame, but B&O is in a lot of trouble.. I know that, they lost a lot of money on the problems with production of the Avant tv, and the Moment has been to complex SW wise, that it has to be released without the full functionallity. It is such a shame, and I am very worried about the future.. In Denmark there is a HUGE 2'nd life market for the BS2300/BS3000 and even the older BS6500/7000 systems, They are very cheap, about 4-600 euro for a complete set, in pretty good condition. I suspect this must be because people are still loving these elderly simpel B&O systems. And not so much the new systems. Years ago all my friends bought new B&O systems, tv's and audio systems, this I don't see anymore.. Today I just saw the last episode of a Danish TV station, that has made 10 episodes about the B&O history, the last was an interview with Tue and some finacial guy from the stock market, and Tue said that today, the buyers of the B&O Play products, were 15 years younger than the buyers of the "real" B&O, but they started to see the Play buyers moving up into the "real" products.. This is interresting, and we must hope that this will spell a new future for B&O.. There is no doubt that Tue is focusing on the younger(and possibly first time) buyers with the Moment. Let's see what happens.. The financial guy was sure that in 10 years, there would still be the brand Bang & Olufsen, but not the company as we see today. He didn't say what the company would look like in his thoughts though. Talked to my dealer yesterday, and he said that he had 10-15 old existing customers that he NEW he could sell the Moment to.. If only it was a finished product that easely could replace there old Audio Master, without the need to buy 1000's of euro's priced converterboxes to get it "almost" working as their old audio master.. They all were standing with 2200 euro in the hand to buy "the latest new audio system", until they saw it and heard what it could NOT do yet.. As as sales person it was very frustrating for him, because in 6 months when the system can do all the promised things, maybe the 2200 euro has been spend on a vacation, or something else.. I just don't know. We will see in a few years, I think this is the timeline that defines if Tue's new strategy is working, but they need to get the SW department, and the production sorted out.. and VERY fast.. For now I will stick to my newly bought BS3000 conected to a BL7-2 in the livingroom and Beolab 3500 in the bedroom to satisfy my music needs with streaming from the wallmounted iPad.. And the BS7000/BL7000 in the office, it still gives me the old smile on the face when using the remote :) /Weebyx
Millemissen: And why is that? It is because a lot of people want to get rid of this old stuff - they don't use it anymore! There are far too many 2'nd hand BS2300 etc on the market - no one wants to buy them.... .....which again keeps the price low. MM
Hmm, I don't agree with that, I have followed a lot of these BC2300's for sale, and even bought quite a few to fix up, and have sold them all VERY quick afterwards again.
A lot of them is suffering from the CD Laser error, and since no-one at B&O will fix this anymore (at least for a price that can justify the value of a working unit), they sell their "old" unit and buys a new Airplay speaker, or another "compact" audio system. Every single one I have bought a unit from, is NOT going to buy new B&O, and that is the problem... They are used to a simple and nice system, but they don't see the new B&O as that anymore..
BC2300/BS3000/BS3200 is stil a fantastic buy with great sound, and a totally cleaned/laser fixed/doors fixed unit, sells for 350-400 Euro.. And give it an Airport Express, and you still in my eyes has a unit that is by far better sounding and more intuitive, and nicer looking that anything else on the market at the same price..
Let's agree to disagree, but I think that the numbers and the trouble B&O is in, speaks for it self.. Not enough people are buying the new stuff..
How about this:
Maybe the world doesn't need a dedicated B&O audiosystem at all - independent of how it is conceived?
Or maybe something like the A9 2nd Generation is the 'new way' of doing a B&O audiosystem?
Millemissen: How about this: Maybe the world doesn't need a dedicated B&O audiosystem at all - independent of how it is conceived? Or maybe something like the A9 2nd Generation is the 'new way' of doing a B&O audiosystem? MM
I believe there would be a significant market for a b&o music system. I also think that they seem tp be doing all in their power to avoid introducing it!
Ban boring signatures!
Weebyx: BC2300/BS3000/BS3200 is stil a fantastic buy with great sound, and a totally cleaned/laser fixed/doors fixed unit, sells for 350-400 Euro.. And give it an Airport Express, and you still in my eyes has a unit that is by far better sounding and more intuitive, and nicer looking that anything else on the market at the same price.. Let's agree to disagree, but I think that the numbers and the trouble B&O is in, speaks for it self.. Not enough people are buying the new stuff.. /Weebyx
Weebyx, you're right, I had a Beosound 4000 (larger clamper version) with a couple of Beolab 2500s which I had upgraded to the aluminum frets. The system was just sitting in a box in the garage because long ago I had dropped it and one of the door pulleys had broken. (THANK GOODNESS the doors hadn't broken). I sent it to be fixed and later sold it (BS4000 and speakers) for close to $1500... It may be on the high end of market price, but goes to show you that those systems are still sought after by a certain sort (my kind of person)
Puncher: I believe there would be a significant market for a b&o music system. I also think that they seem tp be doing all in their power to avoid introducing it!
Now - how does a 'B&O audiosystem MK-Puncher' work/look like?
O
Millemissen: Puncher: I believe there would be a significant market for a b&o music system. I also think that they seem tp be doing all in their power to avoid introducing it! Now - how does a 'B&O audiosystem MK-Puncher' work/look like? MM
Properly!
Now I understand you!
BeoNut since '75
Hi Weebyx,
I completely agree with your initial and subsequent posts. Not much to add as most replies echo my own thoughts. While some disagree with you clearly a number of us do share your sentiments. I have not been inspired by anything from B&O for several years now. A little bit here and there with the BL20s and Avant perhaps, but certainly nothing else. The moving parts on the Avant are great to see and I applaud B&O for that. This is what drew me to the brand to begin with as a youngster and the sound quality from the BL20s and design are also appealing. However, the overall creativity that people like Davis Lewis and Jacob Jensen brought are long gone and very obviously so when you look at products for the last few years.
B&O used to amaze me. I would walk into their shops absolutely thrilled; knowing I was going to see something nobody else could possibly dream up, but this hasn't been the case for a long long time. I can only imagine how hard it must be to continually strive for the highest level in creativity, design and production amongst such competition, but equally, I can only be honest about my expectations. I suppose B&O shot themselves in the foot really by being so far ahead from the 60s to the 90s. I am glad of that though since I have still been able to buy and enjoy many of the products I always loved and still have them now. I am very happy with my BV9 and BL9s but everything else I have sold. I may buy a BS9000 again or a BS4 or as you mentioned a BC model as they are still wonderful products that look way better than anything else they have on the market right now. I loved my little BS3 but that kept breaking due to a design fault with the top piece. Now there is just a BeoLit that doesn't excite me in the slightest when I look at it. Like you, I have been ready to spend my money on the next great audio product from B&O but where is it? They have totally changed from the company I first fell in love with. People that love B&O want something that looks and behaves significantly different from anything else ... how is the Moment (as an example) different from an iPad turned on its side? I think where B&O are really slipping is by believing that their customer base will keep buying products from them just because they are B&O - WRONG! I want to be inspired and excited - EVERY SINGLE TIME! A tall order and one they can't fulfil. Such a shame but that's life I guess.
Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
If B&O had made something like this - a cool looking Media center with Bluray, DAB, LAN, WLAN, DLNA, NL, etc. - then I would buy it.
elephant:Or even a BeoSound 4 mark III: - add a DLNA module (replacing the DAB+ module ?) - replace the CD player with another reader (getting video out would however be non-trivial)
- add a DLNA module (replacing the DAB+ module ?)
- replace the CD player with another reader (getting video out would however be non-trivial)
Do you think it might be easier to add that functionality to a Beocenter 2? Update Masterlink to NL, upgrade the Video out to HDMI, Upgrade the mechanism to a Blue Ray player, add DLNA (with a USB or eSATA socket, but that may not be necessary with an ethernet / NL port); but the Beocenter can be the digital media renderer for whatever it is connected to.
I think a Beocenter 2 anodized to black with a silver aluminum digits on the left "wing" and a similarly silver volume ring on the right "wing" would look bad ass!
That is not how B&O works!
Millemissen:That is not how B&O works! MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
I couldn't agree more that the Moment is different.My personal preference is for the "older" '00s stuff that had its magical presence. The Beosound 5 is as far digital as id go with their stuff. It is digital while still being a beautiful physical piece with movement.
The trouble is guys, the 'old stuff' simply was not selling. Maybe the BS4 or BC2 sold to the very few people on this forum BUT it was not selling even in its day. BS4 was never regarded as a great product. MM is right, B&O would never go back and are aiming for a new customer with the Moment.
Tue obviously knows who his customer is. B&O PLAY have a brand manual on Pinterest, and my gosh, they are spot on with who they think or indeed want the B&O Play clientele to be!
The Moment should DEFINITELY be a BANG&OLUFSEN product rather than a Play. Play is for iPhone/Apple people like me :)
Paul W: The trouble is guys, the 'old stuff' simply was not selling. Maybe the BS4 or BC2 sold to the very few people on this forum BUT it was not selling even in its day. BS4 was never regarded as a great product. MM is right, B&O would never go back and are aiming for a new customer with the Moment. Tue obviously knows who his customer is. B&O PLAY have a brand manual on Pinterest, and my gosh, they are spot on with who they think or indeed want the B&O Play clientele to be! The Moment should DEFINITELY be a BANG&OLUFSEN product rather than a Play. Play is for iPhone/Apple people like me :)
I would agree about the BS4 - OK but not a classic.
Tue may think he knows who he wants but they are not lining up to beat the door down - if the people he is trying to attract aren't turning up in sufficient numbers whilst he is alienating those of his traditional clientele that haven't died yet then I would suggest that he's in trouble!!
I have nothing constructive to say about Pinterest.
The Moment is, at best, a Play product, even if forthcoming software updates transform it's abilities and performance, there are lists of reasons elsewhere on the forum that will prevent it from ever becoming a "real" B&O audio system.
Disappointed as well. Its like a Samsung , LG device.