Best woofer in the house ?

This is a serious question about (sub-)woofers and not dogs.

Aussie Michael has got his BL19 but we have yet to hear (lol) from hm on its audio characteristics eg music audio versus AV.  I am on tenterhooks for feedback as I am trying to decide whether the BL19 is the right buy for me at the moment.

We all know the BL2's reputation for being great for AV explosions but flabby for music- maybe in some situations all it ever needed was playing around with switch settings.

Yesterday I again reorganized rooms and brought our BL11 back to the BV8-40 prior to me pulling the trigger on the BL19.  I was surprised at how good it was this time -- it seemed more present, where as there were times previously when it seemed invisible/inaudible.

Admittedly I was testing using Netflix movies -- just playing a few title sequences to see their special effects.

When I played music I actually had a few tracks (I think it was the "All Angels") where the BL11 detracted from their singing by adding orchestral reverberations I had not previously heard.

(it maybe that this was due to the position setting not being adjusted FYI this room is 3.7m X 5.5M with the listening arc being on the shorter axis)

None the less I was left thinking "this BL11 is pretty d* good !" and "maybe I don't need a BL19 after all".

So I then looked at their specs (oh you audiofool you):

• BL11
  • 1 X 200W D class amp
  • 2 X 6 1/2" drivers
  • 33 - 300 Hz (high end; adjustable)
• BL19
  • 2 X 160W D class amps
  • 2 x 8" drivers
  •  ?? - ??? Hz
• BL2
  • 1 X 850W D class amp
  • 3 X 10" drivers (or is it 2 X 230mm ?)
  • 23 - 120 Hz (high end; adjustable)

So based on your audio and AV experiences which do you think is the better woofer sonically and which is the dog

I would consider a S8/BL14 sub only over a BL11/BL2 any day. I do love the design of the BL11 however.

BeoMegaMan:

I would consider a S8/BL14 sub only over a BL11/BL2 any day. I do love the design of the BL11 however. Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there

I forgot about those options !

The room, the size and the acoustics of the room is very important, when we talk about 'which' sub is the best.

Some people seem to neglect that - and focus on specs too much.

And then there are the personal tastes - want to listen loud, or not?

More for movies (with multichannel audio) or just for music - which kind of music.......

MM

I gave the size of the room.

I neglected to say it has 3 x 2 people couches, carpet, curtains, 4 large bookcases, and so other items - all wooden.

I mentioned two classes of music: opera et al singing (specifically "All Angels"), and the other being Jazz.

I might try some Beethoven etc tonight.

Still interested in hearing others' opinions -- especially those who have been lucky to have had two or more BeoWoofers

The BeoLab 2 uses passive radiators, which have a significant impact on group delay, not easily quantifiable in published tech specs, but group delay seriously impacts our perception of the bottom end.

 

Group delay means certain frequencies are delayed in proportion to others, or are reproduced later than others.

No doubt BL19 but...

I found placement in the room is critical for music. Bass was very tight, clean sounding with great fast attack on my first set up (Mac mini with Audirvana+), now after replacing this setup with the Moment I'm still on the slide with the woofer to find again that specific tight punchy transient sound. I felt shifting the woofer by a couple of inches more or less to the wall or corner gives a different spectrum.  It's all very much up to personal preference and genre.

Killyp:

The BeoLab 2 uses passive radiators, which have a significant impact on group delay, not easily quantifiable in published tech specs, but group delay seriously impacts our perception of the bottom end.

Group delay means certain frequencies are delayed in proportion to others, or are reproduced later than others.

Best technical explanation ever for the often heard "complaint" about the BL2

elephant:

Best technical explanation ever for the often heard "complaint" about the BL2

MM

Chris:

No doubt BL19 but...

I found placement in the room is critical for music. Bass was very tight, clean sounding with great fast attack on my first set up (Mac mini with Audirvana+), now after replacing this setup with the Moment I'm still on the slide with the woofer to find again that specific tight punchy transient sound. I felt shifting the woofer by a couple of inches more or less to the wall or corner gives a different spectrum. It's all very much up to personal preference and genre.

" Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth. "

Thanks Chris

I think that's the difference between my two usages of the BL11 with the BV8.

First iteration was roughly the same position but on carpet and in front of the cupboard that the BV8 sits on.

Now it's to the side of the cupboard, on floorboards (laid in 1879), and in an "alcove" U made from the BV8 cupboard, bookcase, and another cupboard of DVDs. I think those are the factors for the BV11 becoming more audible and omnipresent.

Still interested in how much of a difference the BV19 would make.

I'd just mention that Dolby specs call for speakers capable of 20hz - 20khz @ 105db SPL all round, or as an option, a crossover at 80hz to a sub which will play circa 20hz, @115db - this of course with reference to Dolby 'reference' playback levels.

Few people will play back movies in a domestic environment at those sort of SPL levels.

However, LFE effects do commonly go to 20hz and even lower for things like dinosaur footsteps, so it's fair to argue that the BL11 is really a bass speaker to extend the lower octave or two of a speaker like a BL3, hence turning the combo into a full range speaker system; but as a LFE subwoofer, the BL11 is not really suited - for that choose either the BL2 or BL19.

Given that the passive radiator arrangement of the BL2 can give an subjective impression of 'slow' bass in some rooms and in a music role, i.e. lacking in perceived transient 'attack',  I'd opinion that for a combined movie and music role, the BL19 would be the optimum choice.

IMHO of course..

Kind regards

John..

 

I don't really care for Dolby Digital specs in my humble home.

My BL11 does a good job in our relatively small livingroom.....

......and I am not just listening to DD soundtracks through my setup.

Note: a year ago I was in a DD spec'ed cinema to watch and listen to the latest Elton John concert video.

It was horrible: big picture - lousy (boomy) sound

I should have bought the BRD for the ticket money instead.

MM

Thanks John for those insights.

Dear MM. Yes in many case a BRD is a good choice - and you can revisit the experience !

BeoMegaMan:

I would consider a S8/BL14 sub only over a BL11/BL2 any day. I do love the design of the BL11 however. Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there

I visited the dealer today to discuss your suggestion, however they were somewhat nonplussed:

A) they were a bit unsure/uncertain of how a BV8-40 would work with these units

B) they were suppressed that getting an additional two or four small surround speakers wasn't phasing me ! Well I have more rooms than speakers as it is ... So there is never enough speakers anyway

However their consensus was than the S8 would offer the best BANG for the buck

FYI these are the current Australian prices ranked by buck not bang

$1,799 S8 plus 2 satellites ie no rears

$3,075 B11

$3,195 BL14 4.1 with 4 satellites

$3,595 BL14 5.1 with 5 satellites ie including front centre

$3,795 BL19

So many choices !

elephant:

$1,799 S8 plus 2 satellites ie no rears

Wow, BeoMegaMan's suggestion of an S8 seems like a real value (for adding additional satellites), especially if B&O still hasn't downgraded the sub.

Sal:

Wow, BeoMegaMan's suggestion of an S8 seems like a real value (for adding additional satellites), especially if B&O still hasn't downgraded the sub.

The lack of a downgraded shipment can not be guaranteed so it should a surprise rather than a decision factor

I actually prefer the S8's satellite aesthetic

elephant:

Sal:

 

Wow, BeoMegaMan's suggestion of an S8 seems like a real value (for adding additional satellites), especially if B&O still hasn't downgraded the sub.

 

 

The lack of a downgraded shipment can not be guaranteed so it should a surprise rather than a decision factor

 

 

I actually prefer the S8's satellite aesthetic

Yes, you're right. If B&O had black aluminum floor stands to match the S8, I think I'd be convinced to pull the trigger. Especially since my BV is all black.

After reading Michael's Peace and War I would have to say the BV18 is on the side of the Angels