ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
And vinyl sales doubled in the UK over the last year. So much so that there are now calls for vinyl to have their own charts again.
Dave.
Lots of debate about the merits of RSD. I have always been a big supporter of it since around 2010. I was a student at the time and used to visit my local independent record store most weeks to pick up a new vinyl. I also embraced RSD, got down very early (around 6AM) to pick up some rare and interesting things. However, in later years the sheer amount of people doing the same got pretty ridiculous and I would have to be up at a crazy time to do the same. I think the issue of selling the items on eBay is a pretty massive problem as well and is something that they are powerless to stop.
I support and have supported the idea in principle for many years, but as time goes on I cannot see it as a sustainable option. Everyday should be record store day and everyone who is interested in vinyl or music should support their local record store anyway.
Just my opinion of course!
Ben
I don't care much for vinyls, I freely admit.
And I don't see much need for a physical media for stereo content these days.
What I do care for is good recordings!
After all it is the quality of the initial recording/mixing/mastering, that make a good record.
How about a GRD - a 'Good Recordings Day'
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: I don't care much for vinyls, I freely admit. And I don't see much need for a physical media for stereo content these days. What I do care for is good recordings! After all it is the quality of the initial recording/mixing/mastering, that make a good record. How about a GRD - a 'Good Recordings Day' MM
Excellent point and suggestion MM.
I do like the physicality of vinyls as you may know. However, I don't like badly recorded vinyl or worn vinyl. I also have my 'digital' music collection which I also enjoy but usually whilst in a different environment - in the car, away from home for example. My first choice at home is usually vinyl followed by CD's via the BS9000. I'm not against the digital technology but as has been discussed before on other threads, the original master quality is what counts. Unfortunately, some digital content is butchered to the extent it's grating to my ears.
A lot of modern recordings are actually a lot better than you might imagine, it's the mastering which is a problem nowadays.
Generally speaking the masters being used for the vinyl are far, far better than the digital release, and when you hear the difference, I'm sure you'll want to get your turntable up and running again.
The physical side of things is irreplaceable to me. I could never live with just downloads, too boring.
BeoNut since '75
Killyp: A lot of modern recordings are actually a lot better than you might imagine, it's the mastering which is a problem nowadays. Generally speaking the masters being used for the vinyl are far, far better than the digital release, and when you hear the difference, I'm sure you'll want to get your turntable up and running again. The physical side of things is irreplaceable to me. I could never live with just downloads, too boring.
1: I am not sure that you know, what I can imagine about modern recordings........
Most modern recordings (but not all) are done in the digital domain (some times using a combination of analog tape recording and digital converted files for the mixing/processing).
A lot of these (but not all) are captured/converted using 24/96 technology.
The higher bitrate is mainly needed for the mixing and the processing of the tracks afterwards. Whether a recording will benefit from the 96 specs depends on the equipment (microphones, tape recorders, analog mixing consoles..) used in the actual recording.
Of course what really matters to us (the buyers/listeners) is what is done during the mastering process - because we are not listening to the original master tapes, but to a release in some sort of container (vinyl or optical disc, MP3 or FLAC etc......)
This has been so for many years now ---- and the socalled hot mastering is really nothing new.
Even if an old analog recoding by far don't reach the SQ of a welldone digital recording, it is (and especially was) often the bad mastering, that that ruined the joy of listening to these recordings.
Take the brandnew reissues of the old Tom Petty recordings.
For most of these they used the original master tapes and simply mastered them gently.
And they do really sound different to the previous CD versions!
2a: They don't use better masters for vinyl, they use different masters!
When a recording is prepared (mastered) for a vinyl release, the engeneers have to use a lot of tricks because of the physical structure (and the limits) of the vinyl as a delivery medium. You can read about this - it is nothing new! Things that are not needed, when doing a master for a CD/BluRay release.
It is true, that you can't use heavy/hot mastered files for a vinyl release - which is one of the reasons, why some people prefer the vinyls to CD releases.
However, if you avoid using hot mastering, you can have a much higher fidelity even on a plain red book spec'ed release (CD).
Steve Wilson (as one example) has done a marvelous job remastering old Yes-, Jethro Tull- etc recordings for CD and BluRay release.
2b: You don't need to lecture me about 'getting my turntable up again'!
All I have to do is to pick one of my vinyl LP's, place it on my BeoGram 3500 and push 'Phono' on my Beo4.
But ---- I don't do that very often. It is far too much efford for listening to music.
And with my CD's (ripped to FLAC or as plain dics), my BluRay music releases and what Is on a streaming service like WiMP Premium (Tidal) I am far better off in finding, what I want to listen to.
3: "The physical side of things is irreplaceable to" you - I can't say anything against that - and I won't!
If that is the way you prefer thing, be welcome - it is your choice.
But ---- don't try to convince me, that I with vinyls would have a better overall SQ, than with the CD's/CD-rips, losslees streamed files etc, that I listen to nowadays.
I think you correctly said it all MM. I've grown up surrounded by ALL music formats and whilst I like vinyl / turntables 1210s in a bar/club/beach party environment, they sound of vinyl has NEVER been for me. I simply don't like it. And I can tell you from my of studio work that vinyl sounds NOTHING like the original master tape. If anything, CD is the nearest that the human ear will recognise. I think with vinyl it's very easy to only remember the good things about it and nothing else. Don't even get me started on those disgusting plastic sleeves that protected the cardboard covers :(
this is not about the chicken and egg conversation, the idea of RSD is to physically support your independent local store in purchasing music, you can also purchase CD, Cassette (yep cassette medium is being used by many artists), tee-shirt, magazine or just a coffee.
why Vinyl works for me is the connection... yes a majority of my music is stored on my server and in the cloud so I have access 24/7 and listen approx 2-3hrs a day when on the move which is fantastic but when I play a vinyl album I am forced to sit down and listen, I have time to study the artwork and read the sleeve notes, in this hectic world this to me is quality time and as good as meditation...
please support your local record store even if it means going in and and discussing its merits over other selling models or mediums....
In a way I am for supporting these 'small shops', but I guess it is more from a nostalgic point of view.
I am sure these shops can't make a living from the cup of coffee, that I would drink being there and from the couple of used CD's, I would find there, that aren't available on a streaming service like WiMP/Tidal.
That is how things work today - and that is the reason, why many of the other small shops (we use to love) are closing down. We can sit down and pity this fact, but if we don't buy anything there, they will disappear.
And I freely admit, that I am not buying enough to expect, that they will be there, when I once in a while feel like going there.
Mark: but when I play a vinyl album I am forced to sit down and listen, I have time to study the artwork and read the sleeve notes, in this hectic world this to me is quality time and as good as meditation...
but when I play a vinyl album I am forced to sit down and listen, I have time to study the artwork and read the sleeve notes, in this hectic world this to me is quality time and as good as meditation...
I see absolutely no reason, why you should not be able to do the same with a non physical album.
It is just a matter of habits.
Maybe you could force yourself to sit down and listen because of the music and not because of the physical format of the music
I often sit down to listen to albums (yes: albums!) and have time to study the artwork, the liner notes - you can easily find these on the internet (some times they are even part of the tags in the files).
And I enjoy reading about they artist and his/her situation of live, when the recording was made, which other artists did the engeneers work with etc etc....
I like to find reviews of the album and I get inspiration for, what I am going to listen to next/next time, when I have the time to sit down a listen for an hour or so.
These things are possible today because of the easy access to the internet and the convenience of tablet computers.
Being limited to reading the liner notes on a piece of paper - no thanks!
Luckily however, enough young people (like me) do continue to support these shops week in week out. It is our generation who have recently discovered why vinyl is special to many people. It is more than just the quality of the recording but the physical nature of owning a piece of music and art.
I will try and get down to my local record shop this weekend but I fear it may be extremely busy.
I will be going too - its good to support independent local businesses - and I love Vinyl - oh, and digital