Quality of the B&O RIAA

I wonder how good RIAA (Phono pre amplifier) integrated in the BeoCenter 9000 really is?

Would it be justifiable to run one of the top- needles from Sound Smith on a Beogram 4000/8000

 through a BeoCenter 9000 .

Super minimalistic , and sounds not too bad in the standard edition, but if you then invest in a 

Sound Smith needle ( The Voice costs 2700 - USD ) how much take out of B & O 's integrated RIAA ?

I had one and from memory it was very good, I think they have a good reputation. Certainly the preamp in BM5500 sounds better than using my mega preamp on the BM6500 - However, in my opinion there are lots of other factors, the state of the main preamp and power amp, speakers, turntable etc - if all those are fine then I would go with it and you get remote control of the beogram too. If it doesn't sound good then start investigating.

I think the inbuilt B&O preamps sound great. Although I have no experience with the BC9000 I don't see why it wouldn't be as good as the other ones I have heard. They are perfectly matched with the output of the MMC cartridges (correct loading etc)

I am wondering about investing in a highend (Soundsmith) element for the turntable. And are really confused if the built in RIAA is up for the task, or if I am better off with a external phono preamplifier (outside the B&O).

What amp are you planning on using?

I am currently set up in the living room with a Beocenter 9000, Beovox CX100 speakers, and a Dual 1228 turntable with a Shure M95 - Jico SAS needle.

Sound is very good. However I am looking to complete the system with a B&O tangent turntable (the best I can get), and put in a custom Soundsmith needle. (The Voice can be bought from USD 2700,-)

I am a bit concerned that the integrated phono amplifier is not up to the task to get the resolution and detailing delivered from a high end pickup element like the Soundsmith. 

Save your money, this would be a big waste of time and money.

It makes absolutly no sense to spend this amount of money, when the rest of the system is not optimized to a audiophile standard.

I have done this to severel units of BM7000 amplifiers and other 7000 components. Spending some money to audiophile Opamps like BurrBrown 3134 and antimagnetic MKS caps makes a huge difference to a series B&O component. Workshops were public here...

I think, if you could hear the difference... it is like removing a bubble foil from a wrapped speaker.

When you have done this... then it makes sense. I can clearly hear the difference of a MMC1 to a MMC4.

I would have though it would be plenty good enough.

I'm not sure how much of an improvement you will get over the Shure Jilco combo though.

The Beogram will likely be the limiting factor.

Lee

More thoughts...

I wouldn't have thought it was worth buying a Soundsmith voice when you are using CX100s and a beocenter... Although good they just won't do it justice.

I have a rebuilt Beogram 8000 with a rebuilt top of the line MMC20CL with boron cantilever and shibata stylus and I honestly believe the cartridge is being held back by the Beogram. They are great turntables and do sound good but they aren't the best available.

I've had the Beogram connected to a BM5000 (80s version) and I could hear a difference between cartridges and stylus profiles but it wasn't anywhere near as pronounced as it is through my Beomaster 8000.

Lee

So you would recommend me to just stay with the Shure/JICO/SAS combo?

Is it the CX100 that will be the limit? Because I am wondering about some of the large floor standers from B&O. Any suggestions? 
I am a audiophile myself so I am a bit picky. But the system "as is"  in the living room both sounds good, ad look very good (WAF) ;-) I did a test and found the sound to be better with some "high diameter" speaker cables.

The Shure Jico SAS combo is a very good one, the SAS styli are very nice and hard to beat. The voice would probably be better but to get the most out of it you need to put it on a Sondek or similar. 

I love my Beogram 8000 and it is a fantastic performer, easy to use and looks nice next to the rest of the Beosystem 8000 but it won't be as good as the Sondek. 

Yes I'd say the CX100s are limiting and the amp isn't the ultimate in Audiophile quality. I really like my Beovox penta floor standers but they need a powerful amp to sound at their best, the amp in the BC9000 just won't cut it. You would have to get the Beolab pentas with inbuilt amps. 

I consider myself an 'audiophile' too but I really can't buy into all the cable nonsense, just use a good quality pure copper cable and you'll be fine.

Lee

Thanks,

So the Beocenter 9000 is not as good as I hoped for then. I was hoping to set up a good quality vintage B&O in my living room. Where do I go then? Which Beocenter? I always liked the Beovox m150 range.

http://beocentral.com/beovoxm150family

Of topic regarding the cable thing... I think the "gold" here will be the diameter and copper purity ;-)

If you want the best vintage B&O set up, you have a few choices:

Beolab 5000 system - the FM radio is fantastic, beautifully built amplifier and the Thorens Beogram 3000 deck in the best Beogram. Against it is that this an all manual system.

Beomaster 4400 system - Beogram 4000, BM4400, M100 speakers - again well made and superb sound - mainly manual.

Beolab 8000 system - probably the one for you - the Beomaster was made to be as good as it could be - huge transformer. The Beogram is limited - poor record support is a major factor - but is probably the best automatic record player available. MS150s are the speaker of choice - Against is the ridiculous size - does not have the typical B&O sound - not quite as warm and easy to listen to probably because more accurate!!!

OK, thanks :-)

I will keep it "as is" for the time being, and look around for a 8000 system with MS150 speakers.

Probably have to wait a while

The Dual/Shure/Jico SAS combo is really good so it will be a keeper anyway. And in a while I can have a shootout between the turntables.

I have the Beosystem 8000 (BM8000, BC9000, BG8000) and I love it.. So I too would strongly recommend. I unfortunately haven't got the MS150s but have heard them and they are fantastic... the only issue is the size! I would love a pair though :-) The Beovox Pentas are great if you haven't got the room. 

I will only say that as good as the Beogram 8000 is, its still got a number of flaws. The tangential arm is a fantastic idea on paper and I'm sure its the correct way to play records, but its got its own problems. As Peter mentioned the coupling of the record and the platter isn't great, although that was improved on the BG8002.

If your on the look out for a BS8000 be prepared to spend time/money on restoration... But its worth it!

Lee