ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
In my inbox today...
As I was saying in a previous post on another thread, there used to be 3 in the San Francisco Bay Area, then 2, then 3 again, then 2, and now, apparently there will only be one.
It seems that B&O is changing its strategy in the US. The manager of the Tysons Corner store believed that they were one of the top performing stores, if not the top. So it doesn't look like these closings stem from a lack of sales,
It may be that B&O is going to an independant route. Torsten (the manager) said that he was considering opening an independant non-showroom "store". I guess that is good if you know what you want beforehand. I hope he does because he has been good to me and I would definately buy from him again.
This is all speculation, I have no idea what is going on!
Whatever the reason, it's a shame that the number of showrooms are dwindling. Although, I must admit, while I was a customer, I wasn't necessarily the best customer (in terms of actual sales). One day, I ran into the store's manager in a coffee shop, and he told me that every store had that one customer who would always be at the showroom, but it would take months (maybe years) before they even bought anything... and for the SF store, that customer was me! Give me a break though, I was just a kid still in college, to be fair.
Anyway, the reduction of showrooms will be tough, especially when the products pretty much require a showroom. Anyone else remember Cambridge Soundworks? What they're reduced to selling on their online presence is kind of sad. While I'm sure we here in the community will already be familiar of the B&O quality for any future products, it might be hard to sell B&O to new customers if a showroom for demonstrations will be hard to come by.
In Strasbourg the shop closed few weeks ago without telling anything to the clients (I used to receive adds from them...). The shop has been totally emptied in 1 weekend. Nothing written at the door and no answer to the phone. BO confirmed that the shop is definitively closed... Fortunately they are still good shops in Germany less then 100km away.
I wonder how much of the price of a "Bang & Olufsen" product is to maintain the store and the employee salaries. I think B&O Play is priced better to sell, but to spend over $4700 for a pair of BeoLab 17's can be a little daunting! It would be nice if they could figure a good way to get the price down a little. I just don't know if the volume of sales in a typical Bang & Olufsen store is high enough.
I think you are right! But we have to keep in mind that in some shops potentials clients are not always very warmly welcomed and some shops look a bit outdated and are not very appealing... I think the whole concept has to be rethought...
Does this mean the only store in the Bay area is the store in Palo Alto?
Mark-N: I wonder how much of the price of a "Bang & Olufsen" product is to maintain the store and the employee salaries.
I wonder how much of the price of a "Bang & Olufsen" product is to maintain the store and the employee salaries.
In common with most retail environments I would suggest at least half.
linder: Does this mean the only store in the Bay area is the store in Palo Alto?
Yup, Palo Alto is it (when SF locks the doors)... at least Zuckerberg and friends will have their outlet.
Is there a 'rolling eyes' emoji? No? Oh well, I'm rolling my eyes, guys!
Wasn't there all this hoo-ha about a year ago that B&O appointed Kathy something or other to head up the US or the marketing (from memory).
Seems like that went well...
Aussie Michael: Wasn't there all this hoo-ha about a year ago that B&O appointed Kathy something or other to head up the US or the marketing (from memory). Seems like that went well...
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bang--olufsen-america-inc-announces-kathy-thornton-bias-as-new-president-250113231.html
"With Kathy Thorton-Bias joining the Bang & Olufsen America team, we are confident that we can take the next important steps in the American market - which has experienced a healthy development during the past few years," states Tue Mantoni, Bang & Olufsen CEO.
"Healthy development" = closed stores?
Graham
Duels: Mark-N: I wonder how much of the price of a "Bang & Olufsen" product is to maintain the store and the employee salaries. In common with most retail environments I would suggest at least half.
In an independent store the profit margin is no where near half!
This store closing is really an amazing development. San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the US to live in. However the residents of this city have very high incomes and are definitely in the B&O demographics. Why didn't B&O open a new store somewhere in the city where the rent would be much less. Union square has some of the high rental costs in the city.
This is just another reason that many of us to believe that B&O is leaving the US.
Disclaimer: I don't have an MBA, and hated economics, and have no insights into B&O's interior workings. I think there's there is one thing we're not considering. What if B&O are preparing a move to another business model here in the US? It would be a marathon and not a sprint, and closing all the shops at once just wouldn't make sense. Maybe a handful will remain open. But the rest of B&O's business will be handled by "pro-partners" (I've heard this term bantered about here and there) or even enter the hi-end audio retailer world alongside other brands. It would be a terrible business decision for B&O to alienate US customers, I just don't believe they're leaving... I just don't want to believe it.
Sal: Disclaimer: I don't have an MBA, and hated economics, and have no insights into B&O's interior workings. I think there's there is one thing we're not considering. What if B&O are preparing a move to another business model here in the US? It would be a marathon and not a sprint, and closing all the shops at once just wouldn't make sense. Maybe a handful will remain open. But the rest of B&O's business will be handled by "pro-partners" (I've heard this term bantered about here and there) or even enter the hi-end audio retailer world alongside other brands. It would be a terrible business decision for B&O to alienate US customers, I just don't believe they're leaving... I just don't want to believe it.
Sal, I don't mean to be a contrarian but B&O better do something fast because there are people like me who just might get cured of the B&O virus due to withdrawal of B&O products. Also I am old enough to remember when B&O products were sold through audiophile dealers. They always tried to sell a customer another product. I have had that experience and also suffered bad and dishonest repair service. If they are going to use a pro partner, it will be worse. There are several pro partners near where I live and I have talked to several. My wife actually wants to use a pro partner to install a home audio video system. The reason she wants to use a pro partner is she wants everything hidden and completely inbuilt....no floor standing speakers and a hidden 70 inch TV which means no B&O. I am resisting.
Linder,
I'm confused as to why you think the pro partner idea is hurtful?
This allows for a mix and match of product, incorporation of third party ideas, use
of home automation product, including lifts that hide televisions (which can be done with any B&O chassis now).
Seems to me that maybe you should consult a pro partner and give them a shot at your project.
I've done several projects as a pro partner already and am finding it to be a nice offering for folks.
I currently am installing a project with 15 panels, 12 are Bang & Olufsen and 3 are third party brands.
I have found that this is a nice solution as with the limitations on size in B&O the ability to sell third party
product, which has heretofore been limited by B&O corporate, is a major plus in the installation game.
In addition, through the BLGW one can accomplish almost anything via IP control. Again, as a brand
loyalist, I hope you'll reconsider and give a pro partner a try. Even it it's not me
This is indeed becoming a very concerning trend - to wit:
The Washington DC - Maryland - Virginia tee-state area is one of the top 5 markets in the USA. It is a very affluent area with a massive population.
Not so very long ago there were 3 stores - in in DC, one in Bethesda Maryland - both franchise and a company store at the Tysons Galleria Virginia.
First closed DC than Maryland and two weeks ago they closed the company store.
One of B&O's biggest problems in the USA is distribution and name recognition. For this brand to thrive it must have showrooms in key markets and to withdraw from markets like San Francisco and Washington DC makes no sense whatsoever.
What kind of message does it send if the stores in these key markets can't be profitable?
The US market is vastly underperforming and shutting down key stores is not going to improve this picture.
I agree with every word, Tifoso.
The first store to close in the San Francisco area was Walnut Creek (talk about where 'old money' people live). And then, the next one to close was Santana Row in San Jose - which is an area always compared to Rodeo Drive (not quite, but sure, I guess). And now, San Francisco, to which I know George Lucas was a client (we all know the secrets of our local stores).
The only unnerving issue is the trend of franchise/company location closures. This post has only made me more aware of what seems to be happening in the hometowns of other users. Where that will leave the company in the future, is really anyone's guess. I will say that direct sales without a see/hear/touch will be very difficult - especially with the see/hear/touch nature of B&O products.
linder: This store closing is really an amazing development. San Francisco is one of the most expensive cities in the US to live in. However the residents of this city have very high incomes and are definitely in the B&O demographics. Why didn't B&O open a new store somewhere in the city where the rent would be much less. Union square has some of the high rental costs in the city. This is just another reason that many of us to believe that B&O is leaving the US.
Oddly enough, B&O opened a second location in San Francisco (Townsend). Although I never visited this location, it was situated in what was referred to as the 'design district'. It was in a lower-rent area, among all the furniture whole-sale warehouses. It's also where all the nightclubs tend to be... again, because of the lower rent nature of the area.
I think this location lasted about 3-5 years before closing permanently (not great, if you ask me).
mjmedlo,
Thanks for your comments. There is nothing wrong with a pro partner. There is intense competition among pro partners here which is good for the consumer but not so good for someone like B&O. The reason is Bang and Olufsen has been poorly marketed here and thus is almost unknown in the US. Furthermore B&O has not announced anything. I have no idea of any pro partner selling B&O products.
Ultimately I am going to use a pro partner to install a home video system that will be really cool with a very modern minimalist look. Mjmedlo...Sorry I can't give you any business. Thanks
I also am old enough to remember when B&O was sold in hi-fi stores. That is where I saw and fell in love with Bang & Olufsen... 8 years old at Pecar's in Detroit Michigan! That experience stayed with me until I could afford to buy Bang & Olufsen. Granted I purchased McIntosh first, but that love affair was short lived! I believe they moved to company stores to prevent the salesman from redirecting the customer to another brand.
But... who are the real Bang & Olufsen customers? Is it someone who is looking to buy a pair of BeoLab 18's but can be steered to buy a boxy "Totem" speaker instead because the salesman says it sounds just as good? I don't think so. The B&O customer has to be interested in the style and flexibility just as much as the sound. Your wife has certain criteria, like hidden components, that steers her to certain brands, I think [potential] B&O customers are not easily persuaded to buy something else.
I think that independent or pro-partners could work.
Mark-N:But... who are the real Bang & Olufsen customers?
Mark asks a very good question, who are these people? From everything I've read and heard about pro-partners, I am not the right customer for them. I don't buy 3+ screens at once, and I take my time in making any significant purchase, which for me, is a tiny sum compared with the installations that mjmedlo has done and linder are considering (I'm assuming ). Where would a small-potatoes customer like me go?
Mark-N:Is it someone who is looking to buy a pair of BeoLab 18's but can be steered to buy a boxy "Totem" speaker instead because the salesman says it sounds just as good? I don't think so. The B&O customer has to be interested in the style and flexibility just as much as the sound.
Secondly, Mark's answer is very astute, and I think even true today. With so few B&O stores and limited exposure and market saturation, B&O customers are those who already know what they want, and merely need a dealer to audition and view the merchandise in person. I highly doubt that any sales person will sway a customer away from B&O if that mind is already made up... but what about those whose mind isn't made up? That's the crux isn't it... How does B&O grow in this market?
Is B&O Play a bigger player (pardon the pun) as the gateway drug to bigger B&O purchases? I don't know, but from all accounts, the current crop of Play products is doing well, which is wonderful.
I can only speak for myself, when I moved away from B&O for a time, I did a TON of research before settling in on B&W speakers with a Rotel receiver. I went into the hi end audio shop knowing exactly what I wanted, and after I listened, I bought. The salesperson didn't do anything apart from pressing a few buttons. I wonder if that's how it'll be for B&O in the end, especially if they go back to that model of being one of many brands next to one another. The only differentiating factor is the customer in the end isn't it?
There are several B&O pro partners.
You should call BeoCare and ask for the closest one to you
There are some good guys out there selling B&O
good!
Personally I find this a tragedy; if the demographics don’t work in San Francisco, where DO they work? The US is too important a market to walk away from…. if a company plans to survive.
As for B&O service, it is far below appalling. Try terrible, condescending, oh what the heck rotten. Service in Vancouver is handled through Seattle and I have never in my life seen anything remotely on this level…. and the problem goes up to the DM who laughed at me saying, “Oh, so he [the service tech] blew you off.” Did he ever!
That said, the dealer in Toronto was not only polite, but seemed genuinely interested in my “vintage” B&O products. They also provided the “feet” for my Beolink 1000. If all dealers were like the Toronto dealer, B&O would have a rosy future.
However when a company doesn’t appear to value their customers, one has a genuine right to be concerned and I know we all want B&O to survive.
Sad day indeed Earle.
At least we have each other to keep our older B&O equipment going.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Well, that's all folks...
One can only wonder if Vancouver is next. What a unfortunate development.