Beosystem 7000 and Beolab 5's.

First a bit of history....

I have owned a Beosystem 7000 for many years now and throughout so many of these years have had Beolab Penta 2's under their power. They were always "speaker linked" as I considered "power link" to give an inferier sound?

The Pentas provided so much detail, especially in high end such as trumpets, and a lovely soft sound. Their only fallback was the bass detail that always sounded mushy to me and lacking in definition. Not that surprising considering such small bass drivers. I even experimented with a Beolab 2 which certainly helped but I really dislike subwoofers so that didn't last long.

I decided to "upgrade" to Beolab 9's. 'loved the look of them for sure but a really small sound picture after the Pentas and under duress I found the 9's to struggle. A very distinct lack of midrange too convinced me that I couldn't live with them long term. So they got p ex'd for some Beolab 5's.

The 5's give me that big sound wall back but not quite as much as the Pentas due to their limited height and for sure some of the detail the Pentas gave me is missing now. But it's a trade off. There is much clarity with the 5's and the bass destroys the Pentas. 

Now to the question:

I find radio perfectly respectable, tape outstanding, and phono (just acceptable). B&O record decks were never that good. But then we come to CD. The sound is hard as hell. Digital nonsense? It can be so painful that I just don't want to listen to it at times and even consider selling the 5's over it!

if I record a CD onto cassette tape and play it back I, along with everyone else, agree it sounds nicer to the ear. It just takes out that horrible hardness that digital gives you.

Now if I connect the 5's to the CD player through the direct digital feed am I going to enjoy this more or less? I think I know the answer but am interested in other's opinions?

I just want to enjoy the 5's to the maximum but feel I am not doing so with CD's which is, after all the mainstream of music reproduction these days.

Hi,

Actually connecting the pentas up with speaker link is the worst way to do it.. you have to attenuate an amplified signal and then re-amplify it which always results in loss of signal quality. Powerlink is always the best way to ensure the signal is passed with as little degradation as possible.

I will agree with you that the Beogram 7000 turntable is not the best. It's based on the same design as the 5005 (which I used to have) and it's possibly the worst B&O deck I ever heard.

I now have a Beogram 8000 and a 4000 and both of them are superb and easily best my Linn LP12 so B&O were very capable of making excellent record players and their top end cartridges are second to none.

I'm surprised you aren't happy with the sound from the Beolab 5s they should sound much better than the pentas... perhaps the issue is with your beomaster.

In all fairness the Beomaster 7000 isn't really audiophile quality. The earlier Beomaster 5000 has a much better preamp section which results in a nicer sound but lacks the powerlink sockets.

Connecting the Beogram CD directly to the Beolab 5 over a digital connection would result in the best sound quality possible. The Beolab 5s would take over the digital to analogue conversion and do a much better job.

As for CDs being the current way of playing back music... I think they've had their day. HD digital downloads and high quality streaming is the way to go now... or Vinyl on a good rig.

Lee

Do you prefer the 8000 or the 4000? I no longer have an 8000 (have had 6002,6006,8000 and 8002) but still have 4000, 4004 and a mucked about with 6000. The 8000 range sounded great - the 8002 especially - but the materials and build quality was awful. The plastics were a real disappointment compared to the hewn from solid feel of the 4000 and the sound quality seemed much the same.

On the CD note, try a CDX if you want to lose the harshness though some of detail does get smeared a little!

The 4000 is the best sounding deck. The 8000 is great and I actually prefer the drive mechanism and the tonearm assembly but the heavy platter on the 4000 makes all the difference.

Peter. I cannot believe you are suggesting the CDX! I bought one when they came out. Truly awful and it lasted two weeks with me. I took it back and part exchanged it for a Phillips CDV player. It destroyed the CDX. Besides, the Beogram CD 7000 was streaks ahead of the CDX which was, after all, the cheapest 1st, Phillips based CD player B&O made. It looked gorgeous but sounded awful. How it would perform through Beolab 5's I dread to think?

Cdx, beogram cd 4500, beosound 9000 are the best players I have listened to and I got nearly every beosound produced.

it depends a lot on which cd you use.

for the beolab 5, I cannot understand why somebody can use them at their maximum without the digital input and an appropriate source. Most of cds are flat and too poor for the beolab 5. I just stream.

I recently made a test between the lab 8000 and penta mk3 in good condition. They cannot reach the wonderfull capabilities of the beolab 5.

I have a hard time understanding the statement that the BL9s are lacking in midrange. Different ears I guess, but to me their midrange performance is stellar, smooth, detailed, articulate, and well balanced. At least the equal of the BL5s in that range in my opinion.

Beofile7:

if I record a CD onto cassette tape and play it back I, along with everyone else, agree it sounds nicer to the ear. It just takes out that horrible hardness that digital gives you.

Did you mean: "Instead of listening to the music as it is intended to sound, I prefer adding various forms of distortion by recording it on cassette"?

 

Sorry, I couldn't refuse ;)

On topic: I'm also using a 7000 system (with Penta IIIs via PowerLink), and I'm interested in getting more modern Beolabs (like a pair of 20's or maybe a sub + satellite solution) but I'm a bit worried that the 7000 pre-amp maybe isn't good enough. At the same time, I don't want to give it up since the bm7000 controls almost all lights in my home, wakes me up in the mornings, provides multiroom audio etc and at the same time has enough inputs to cater for my needs. Are there any easy ways to improve the performance of the 7000?

henrik:

Beofile7:

if I record a CD onto cassette tape and play it back I, along with everyone else, agree it sounds nicer to the ear. It just takes out that horrible hardness that digital gives you.

Did you mean: "Instead of listening to the music as it is intended to sound, I prefer adding various forms of distortion by recording it on cassette"?

Exactly my thoughts too!

MM

Millemissen:

Exactly my thoughts too!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

+3

Millemissen:

henrik:

Beofile7:

if I record a CD onto cassette tape and play it back I, along with everyone else, agree it sounds nicer to the ear. It just takes out that horrible hardness that digital gives you.

Did you mean: "Instead of listening to the music as it is intended to sound, I prefer adding various forms of distortion by recording it on cassette"?

Exactly my thoughts too!

MM

Well, "everyone else" doesn't agree obviously. I don't. 

Well many thanks for the responses. I do have difficulty agreeing with them though...

To state that CD reproduces the music as "it was meant to be heard" is a difficult one to swallow when what I hear is a hard, metallic, thin sound?

Whatever happened to that rich, colourful, full, detailed analogue music of years before CD's? I just think the Beolab 5's are putting yet another "digital" factor in the equation. Connecting them directly to the CD7000 will make remove any analogue input completely so I am expecting my problem to get even worse but I'll give it a try.

In the meantime I am putting this one down to us all having different tastes and ears?

Your comments about the 7000 system and the sonic difference between sources are interesting. One of Tim Jarman's observations about B&O that I wholeheartedly agree with is generally how well they balance their sources. In other words, if things are working properly and the source material is good, it's very difficult to tell if you're listening to radio, LP, cassette or CD.

Then again, I've not heard a 7000 system so don't know how well it does this, and the later linear tracking turntables were definitely not B&O's finest hour.

Beofile7:

Whatever happened to that rich, colourful, full, detailed analogue music of years before CD's? I just think the Beolab 5's are putting yet another "digital" factor in the equation. Connecting them directly to the CD7000 will make remove any analogue input completely so I am expecting my problem to get even worse but I'll give it a try.

It is more likely that you would prefer some kind of tube-amp/passiv speaker combination feed by a vinyl player.

Just be sure that your lp's weren't sourced from digital produced/mastered material ;-(

The BL5's are probably wasted on you.

MM

It's quite remarkable how different Beofile7  impressions of some kit are to several others!

I will agree that I have thought in the past that a cassette recording sounded "nicer/warmer" than the source but in that case it was a vinyl "Yes" LP source and the result of tape "compression" and HF rolloff!! (B&O 2200 deck & tape with TDK SA-90,Chrome cassette).

I am a fan of the CDX & CD50 but I'm willing to concede that the CD5500 (and cousins) may give the most "accurate" reproduction. However if the CD50 had the quicker, quieter and more reliable drawer/transport mechanism of the CD5500 (and I didn't have to dismantle and fiddle with motor and gear alignment on a semi-regular basis) I would be a very happy bunny!!

I've always been very, very impressed when I've auditioned BL5's instore but I've also read many stories from anguished customers regarding in-house sound issues - I have often wondered if the bass calibration facility was too much too soon and isn't really capable of calibrating satisfactorily in many real world living room environments (I have no practical experience on which to base that opinion)! There are too many great reviews to think that the BL5 is anything but a great Speaker - assuming the set up is OK.

A digital output from a CD550 or CD7000 into BL5's should be as good as it gets for mere mortals, assuming it is a well recorded and mastered CD. It has also been observed on numerous occasions however that a terrible CD will not be "warmed up" by a digital connection into a high quality speaker but will sound as terrible as the recording, - lesser playback chains can actually mask the terribleness!!

 

 

Well Millemissen I am trying to find the pitfalls of a £15,000 speaker and there are some! To blatently shove the onus in my ear I feel is unfair? Everyone that has listened to my setup has agreed with me so it is not just me alone. 

The fact is that when digital replaced analogue the "tone" became much courser and for me it can be very noticable and unpleasant. For the amount of money spent I do not expect to sit and curse what I hearing but at times this does happen. Whether that is because it is a lousy recording/mix that I am trying to ascetain. That is why I posted the question? 

Your comments were not welcome!

Well Millemissen I am trying to find the pitfalls of a £15,000 speaker and there are some! To blatently shove the onus in my ear I feel is unfair? Everyone that has listened to my setup has agreed with me so it is not just me alone. 

The fact is that when digital replaced analogue the "tone" became much courser and for me it can be very noticable and unpleasant. For the amount of money spent I do not expect to sit and curse what I hearing but at times this does happen. Whether that is because it is a lousy recording/mix that I am trying to ascetain. That is why I posted the question? 

Your comments were not welcome!

What's interesting is that when CD first came out, a number of different people, both in the recording and objective audio industries (JAES types) and in the subjectivist press, did numerous tests where they compared CD to the master tapes. In every case I've read about they found the CD either identical to the master, or far closer to what it sounded like than LP or tapes made from the master. CD, done properly, is a very transparent medium. Many people seem to like the euphonic distortions that LP adds, but accurate is not something that can be said about LP. Realizing the difference seems to be hard for many, if a person likes the euphonic colorations added by LP, that's fine, but it's not more accurate. Accuracy has a definition, an accurate transfer medium will sound like the source.

What CD is very bad at is hiding poor mastering, all the warts and blemishes show up with amazing clarity. If the music you like to listen to is often badly mastered, as most modern pop and such are, you will hear all the problems. Also, today many, many pop albums are seriously bad sounding due to the "loudness wars" where the signal level is smashed up against the top of the dynamic range envelope, clipping some of the peaks. Interestingly enough, often MP3s of music suffering this sound better than the original CD! The MP3 encoder tends to remove some of the ultra high frequency grunge generated by the clipped peaks.

The best CDs I've heard are just amazing, far better than any LP I've ever heard. The worst ones can be horrible, worse than LP. And certainly many early CDs were not well done when the music industry was rapidly shoving anything they could out on CD without any consideration about how the medium would show the poor job of mastering, in fact some early CDs were taken from the cutting masters for LP that had significant high frequency boost to compensate for the losses in LP master cutting!

So, no, everyone doesn't agree with you that digital is garbage! I don't insinuate that you can't hear because you prefer analog, you like what you like, for whatever reason, that's your preference and is fine, but don't claim that everyone agrees! If digital sounds that awful on your setup I think something is wrong somewhere personally.

This may be a little OT but here goes:-

I did a straight-forward listening test this afternoon. Not saying it is perfect, it is subjective and gives an opinion only.

A bit of Tom Petty (Rebels), as he is usually a safe pair of hands in cutting his music and has good dynamics to listen to:-

Played the track 3 times through the following:-

a)         BS5 WMA Lossless à BM5 à SPDIF à BL90  (but also possibly via ML/NL Converter to Avant 55 and PL to BL90) 

b)         BM5 HDD WMA Lossless à Avant 55 à BL90  (and assumes the Avant 55 Renderer pushes signal via PL to the 90’s)  

c)         Oppo 105 CD à Avant 55 à BL90 (and assumes Oppo CD output is either Avant 55/PL/90 or direct via Toslink to BL90). 

If I were to score it relatively, I would give c) 10, b) 9.5 and a) 8.

The BS5/BM5 combo did not sound as good as b) or c). It may be that ML is a weak link here depending on what the BL90s are accepting. There was very little I could distinguish between b) and c) but I thought/perceived the original CD has slightly more detail. I don’t know again if the Oppo or the Avant or the cable pathway is adding or subtracting or not.

However, and to get on to the post, I would suspect that the BL5’s are doing what they can in the room and the calibration they have deemed optimal. I suspect the old Beogram CD is probably the issue giving the poor sound. I have a Beogram 8002 with a MMC2 in good nick I occasionally use to listen to vinyl, however, I would not swap that play back for a/b/c above in terms of quality and enjoyment. Not for a second.

Check your CD player and perhaps replace/do diagnostic with something more modern. I doubt your BL5’s will do anything but give a full rounded sound (a little bright on the top – as is the nature of the ALT), but nevertheless a full detailed enjoyable non-fatiguing sound.

If the BL5's are previously loved, then have a good listen to the top tweeters. I had two upper tweeters that gradually gave-up detail after 12/13years of hard work. I don't think this will give a noise, but lack of high-end detail. Check the player first IMHO.