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Hi everyone, I wonder if anyone can tell me if it is possible to do this…
I have a Beovision 11-46 which is connected to a Beosound Overture (in a different room) through a Beolink NL/ML converter.
Playing audio from the TV on the Overture works perfectly and there are no sync problems when playing on the TV at the same time.
Playing a CD from the Overture on the TV also works perfectly but there are sync problems when playing on both. As I understand it, this sync problem won’t be solved by the introduction of a delay box on the ML side of the converter because the speakers are directly attached to the Overture.
So my question is if I were to attach the Beolab 6000’s currently directly attached to the Overture to a Beolab Receiver 1 instead, would I then be able to have them in separate groups on the BV11-46. Thus, when listening to CDs in both rooms I could select the speaker group that has both the TV and BL6000’s and when only wanting the BL6000’s I could select a speaker group with only those. Or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick!
Thanks very much to anyone who can throw some light.
Murray.
You could do as you have proposed, but I can see two potential issues with this:
1. The Wireless powerlink is designed for same room use, and tends to struggle through walls
2. You lose the ability to Play music in the room with the Ouverture, whilst someone else is watching television in the other room.
You can however resolve the issue another way.
Are the two products you've mentioned the only products in the setup? and is the NL/ML converter is in the same room as the Ouverture?
If so you can add an IR eye to the Converter (configured with ML Video Master role, IR option 2), set the Ouverture to A.Opt 0, and connect the speakers to the converter rather than directly to the Ouverture. This should result in synchronised sound in both directions as all the speakers are connected to NL based devices.
Kind regards,
Martin.
Hi Martin, thanks very much for your reply... much appreciated.
The house is wired with ethernet which all goes to a patch panel in a cupboard in the hall. That is where I have installed the converter because as well as making it easy to attach the BV11 via ethernet I am also using some of the ethernet outlets to link up the ML network (all kept separate from the ethernet data network). At the moment the only other ML product I have is a Beolab 2000 in the kitchen also attached to ML using some of the ethernet wiring in the walls.
I could possibly move the converter to the same room as the Overture but would then have to run an ML cable directly to the BL2000 due to insufficient in wall ethernet cables in that room. This is also possible.
However, I am unclear how to attach the speakers to the converter? All it has is an ML connection using either a conventional ML plug or RJ45 on one side, to which I have attached the ML network in the house. An RJ45 network cable on the other side, to which I have attached the BV11 and a couple of USB ports. Is it done through the IR eye in which case how does that attach to the converter? Also is the IR eye you mention a BeoLink Active?
Beginning to think that I have an odd NL/ML Converter.
Thanks again for your help... any further light would be most welcome.
MurrayLow: Beginning to think that I have an odd NL/ML Converter.
On the early samples these ports were not labelled - should be active now, if the sw is uptodate.
Please notice that you need RJ45/PL cables or an adater to connect the speakers there.
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Not only not labelled but also covered up with a plastic blanking plate! As you say they are indeed there. Thanks very much indeed. I think the software is up to date - according to the device it is.
I can get RJ45/PL cables from Sounds Heavenly but what IR device do I need?
Thanks again... Murray.
MurrayLow: Not only not labelled but also covered up with a plastic blanking plate! As you say they are indeed there. Thanks very much indeed. I think the software is up to date - according to the device it is. I can get RJ45/PL cables from Sounds Heavenly but what IR device do I need? Thanks again... Murray.
The eye (and the cable) are available through a B&O dealer.
I am not sure, if Steve can provide the eye as well - just adk him!
They are still available (same as used for the Core). Also on eBay (e.g. https://www.ebay.com/itm/IR-Auge-mit-Join-Beolink-Converter-MML-BeoSound-Essence-Beoplay-Bang-Olufsen-/153358030399).
Note that you'll specifically need the IR eye with 'JOIN' button as shown in the posts above, not the older type with a TIMER button or no buttons at all, as these are not compatible with the NL/NL Converter.
Also be aware that this configuration will put the TV and Ouverture rooms in sync, but your BL2000 will be out of sync with the other two rooms when listening to CD / TAPE / RADIO from the Ouverture (but in sync when listening to TV sources). There isn't really a cost effective way to resolve that issue - you could add a NL Delay box to put the BL2000 in sync for the Ouverture's sources, but it would then be out of sync with the TV, or you could add a second Nl/ML converted just for the BL2000 to resolve the issue completely, but that would be more costly than simply replacing the BL2000 with a multiroom capable Beoplay product such as the M3, M5 etc...
Thanks to everyone who has responded to this. I think I now have a good understanding of how this all works and you have helped me come to a much better solution. Great forum!
Thanks also to Martin for pointing out the idea of replacing my BL2000 with a Beoplay M3 or M5 - what a good idea. Also. turns out we are practically neighbours - I live in Torbay.
All the best to everyone,
Sorry to add a rather late addendum to this thread but I am still having some problems...
I have taken everyone's excellent advice and added an IR Eye (with Join) to the BeoLink Converter NL/ML and attached the BL6000's to the NL/ML powerlink socket. I have also bought a BeoPlay M3 for the kitchen.
When playing a source from the Overture the BV11, the speakers attached to the NL/ML and the M3 are all in sync. Brilliant.
However, when I play the sound from a video source on the BV11 the speakers attached to the NL/ML and the M3 are in sync with each other but not in sync with the BV11. Not brilliant.
The NL/ML is set as V Master, IR 2 and has 'Connect to Primary' as the NL/ML and 'Connect to Secondary' as the BV11. I have tried other combinations but they don't seem to correct this problem.
One other strange thing is that on the 'Sources visible on ML' menu the 'Disabled due to ML role' has 'Beoplay M3' in the greyed out boxes in the 'NL Product name' column for the RADIO, A.MEM, A.AUX and N.MUSIC entries. I would have expected to see the NL/ML in there or have I got that completely wrong?
I am sure I have done something stupid and I hope you can point me in the right direction.
Thanks again,
It's great timing that I see this thread. I've been having very similar issues to resolve. When I had speakers connected directly to my BeoSound 4, the echo was just unacceptable with the NL devices. Ultimately, I connected the speakers to the NL/ML converter instead of the BeoSound 4. Now, everything sounds great. Here are a few observations I've made:
1. An IR eye without the JOIN button will indeed work with the NL/ML Converter. The buttons on the eye just have no function. However the Beo4/BeoRemote One signals will be accepted by the IR eye with the RJ45 cable.Oddly, though, the JOIN command of the BeoRemote would only work with the NL/ML Converter if the IR eye has the JOIN button. It's possible that the reason could have been that I did not power cycle the NL/ML Converter when I connected the non-JOIN IR eye? I'm not sure.
2. The importance of the PRIMARY and SECONDARY linked devices in the NL/ML settings are relevant just for the B&O app when the NL/ML Converter's settings are made such that the NL/ML Converter and its speakers are controlled by the app. With this setting, ONLY the A.Master or V.Master and the PRIMARY and SECONDARY sources are available via the app. Also, when one uses the app to control the NL/ML Converter in this manner, the sources playing on the NL/ML Converter cannot be JOINED by any NL device.
3. In contrast to using the app to control the NL/ML Converter, if you control the NL/ML Converter by using a BeoRemote and an IR eye connected to the NL/ML Converter, you CAN then JOIN the source playing on the NL/ML Converter on an NL device. You also have control of ANY of the sources mapped for IR through the NL/ML Converter's configuration. You're not limited to the PRIMARY and SECONDARY connected link devices.
Thanks for your reply, beojeff.
Is it the case that you have played the sound from video sources on a NL Beovision and found them to be in sync with speakers attached to the NL/ML converter? If so then what I am wanting to happen is certainly possible.
But the more I think about it why is the audio on the M3 and the NL/ML speakers in sync with each other but out of sync with the TV? Everything is surely on the NL side of things so ought to work? The ML side isn't involved at all is it?
The TV sound is definitely ahead of the M3 and NL/ML so it can't be a delay in the TV. I'm really baffled!
Incidentally, thanks for the clarification about primary/secondary on the NL/ML converter. It makes sense to me now having fiddled with various combinations.
MurrayLow:But the more I think about it why is the audio on the M3 and the NL/ML speakers in sync with each other but out of sync with the TV? Everything is surely on the NL side of things so ought to work? The ML side isn't involved at all is it?
For example the delay time set in different devices must be equal.
As I write this: my Moment is playing. A Beoplay A6 and the BV11 are joined. All three are completely in sync
beojeff:3. In contrast to using the app to control the NL/ML Converter, if you control the NL/ML Converter by using a BeoRemote and an IR eye connected to the NL/ML Converter, you CAN then JOIN the source playing on the NL/ML Converter on an NL device. You also have control of ANY of the sources mapped for IR through the NL/ML Converter's configuration. You're not limited to the PRIMARY and SECONDARY connected link devices.
Thanks very much to both Carolpa and Beojeff for you responses.
I have done some more research and the lag only appears when I add the M3 to my WiFi network. I did this while the TV was playing a TV source through its speakers and the BLC speakers and all was in sync. When I use the B&O app to add the M3, the moment it attaches to the network the BLC speakers slip out of sync with the TV. When I join the M3 to the experience it joins in sync with the BLC but out of sync with the TV.
Is this because you cannot mix wireless and wired speakers?
Thanks.
Hi Murray,
There is an inherent delay in sending audio over the network to another device/room, so normally the sending device will delay it's audio output accordingly to remain in sync with the receiving devices.
When the sending device is a TV, this is more complex, as delaying the audio from the TV speakers without also delaying the video would mean the audio would be out of sync with the picture (lipsync issues).
There are two delay settings you can change, one of 'Wired' and one for 'WiFi', and these are 50 milliseconds, and 1000 milliseconds (1 second) respectively.
Since the TV is able to delay it's video by a maximum of 200ms, with the default delay values, everything remains in sync when wired, and loses sync when a WiFi connected device is introduced, as you have already noticed.
You can try reducing the 'Network Delay WLAN' value to 200ms which should resolve the sync issue. This does increase the potential for audio dropouts if your WiFi is not up to the task though, so it's a case of try it and see...
This setting can be changed on any one of your products and the rest should mirror the change accordingly. To access this setting on the BV11, go to the menu, highlight SETTINGS and press GO (centre button), then from the settings menu press the Red button immediately followed by GO. You should now be in the customer service menu. Select the Settings menu from here and you will see the delay settings.
Hi Martin,
I have tried changing the WLAN delay to 200ms in the BLC and the delay was much better but not perfect. So I tried 100ms and it seems to be perfect!
I checked the setting in the BV11 following your instructions on how to get to the customer service menu and it has also changed to 100ms. So all seems fine. I live in a small house so I think the wifi signal strength should be OK.
Thanks so much for your help...oh, and stay safe!