ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Having seen a read a lot of "generic known faults" in a lot of B&O units, I was just wondering why this is accepted "as is".
For example, the Beolab 8000 seems to all suffor from the acid attacks from the deteriorating foam that should reduce noise inside the speaker.
This speaker could last a lifetime (if the std.by trafo doesn't fail also) but a simple thing as the rattle foam can kill it dead.
Is this really standard for other brands also, or are these "stupid" mistakes B&O only ?
I have seen this foam deterioration in a lot of B&O units, mostly the speakers. But why did B&O not catch this mistake ?
Actually my BL7.1 died because of the foam also, it had to have a new power supply board.
It is not what I expect when buying these expensive speakers, that they once will die because of cheap foam?
Are this addressed in the latest speakers, or will Beolab 5 / BL 18 and so on, a one point die if they are unlucky to have the foam touch important places ?
/Weebyx
Good question. I believe this boils down to what you want to call a "design fault" or "cheap choice". For devices that fail within a year or three that is quite easy to tell. But B&O kit may be used for decades. The first Beolab 8000 speakers are soon quarter of a century old. You can't expect the designers to know in advance how a certain type of damping foam may behave during that time span.
Partly the same can be said about many components. I don't know any other brand where recapping is a continuous topic. I believe this is mostly due to physical design constraints. The electrical engineers at B&O are probably always in trouble trying to fit the needed electronics into the exterior design. Just looking at the data sheets (or the price) isn't always enough to tell in advance what will happen once the electronics have been baking in there for a decade. The reliability engineers at component manufacturers will try their best using accelerated aging etc, but still, if a component proves unreliable in practice after 15 years, that's old news as it probably has been out of market for a decade by then!
There are certainly some unfortunate design choices in many B&O products. I believe that is something you need to live with when we are talking about a low volume manufacturer. No time nor resources to iron everything out before release.
--mika
tournedos: Good question. I believe this boils down...
Good question. I believe this boils down...
Good point, and I understand exactly what you mean.
But I still think that it is sad to see such expensive products dead because of foam for instance. The recapping issue has been discussed many times, and I guess that is up to people if they get something out of it.
Many other manufactures might benefit from this also then ? Off course, the 3 obvious recaps, are the Beolink 7000/5000 where the IR receiver is dead because of it, and then the infamous C2103 in the earlier cd players.
But since there are a lot of second hand B&O being bought and sold, then people might be buying a set of fully working BL8000's that is dead within 14 days or 3 months because of foam. Maybe Beoworld should have a thread with "standard issues" for the products, so that when buying second hand, it is know that f.ex when buying BL8000, first thing is to disassemble and remove old sticky foam before it kills.
Just a thought..
I know this i not easy, and it is also a wide subject, but I just thought on it the way home in the car today.. Sad to see B&O units die on behalf of some small "mistakes"
For the older products I think that it is fair to say, that at the time the products where designed, nobody could know how long e.g. the mentioned foam will be "harmless". But for newer products it's easy:The continous quality downgrading and the "recent" outsourcing to locations where quality, environment and human lives doesn't matter that much: China. Just have a look at the "best of" shortly malfunctioning or non working products:- Beosound 3 (they all seem to die far too short and yes, they ARE ruining the reputation of B&O)- Beoplay H8 (Bluetooth problems since launch and it still doesn't seem to be sorted out. And sorry: In the year 2015 you do NOT have any excuse for lousy Bluetooth connection, especially if you are a "high quality luxury" brand!)- Beosound 5 (Mainboard problems from day 1. Mine was in for repair 2 times. Biggest problem (as it's only a computer): You can not change the motherboard yourself without a service tool)- Beosound Essence: MK2 very short after MK1 and no more support and updates for the MK 1 users. Is this how you treat (loyal) customers? I don't think so.Quality is a tough thing and personally I think a company like Bang & Olufsen which really has to fight in the competing AV market should not only tell that they are a quality brand, no, they should prove and show the real quality.Quality includes to:- engineering quality (don't choose the cheapes componentes available on the market just for maximising profit!)- manufacturing quality (I bet a worker in Denmark cares more about the quality of the finish than most chinese people that just need a job to survive)- design quality (can't wait to see the new Beosounds at the end of August... hope it's not that ugly Cecile design)- service quality (including customer service which means more than sending out newsletters)An interesting topic for sure.
Bm5 motherboard was modified.
Playing 6 years now without any troubles at all.
Double post
The boss says "I look very much forward to joining the organization and working with the team to further exploit the global potential.” Inspiring hope that he cares , about profit.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
TWG: For the older products I think that it is fair to say, that at the time the products where designed, nobody could know how long e.g. the mentioned foam will be "harmless". .....
For the older products I think that it is fair to say, that at the time the products where designed, nobody could know how long e.g. the mentioned foam will be "harmless". .....
You are totally correct. In the 90's and up until the Beosound 9000, I bought the following..
Beosystem 4500
Beosystem 7000
Beovision LX4500
Beocord VX5500
Beocord VX7000
Beolink 7000 / 5000
Beosound 9000
Beovision Avant 32" DVD
4 Beolab 8000
Beolab 2
Beovision 7-32
Beovision 7-40
Beovision 4-50 with BS3
My adventure ended with the BV7-40 and BV4/BS3, I sold it including BL8000/BL2 because of SW problems, and also sold the 9000(it actually worked fine though) I was tired of all the SW problems I had with the BV7/BV4.
I have not owned a B&O tv since, and probably never will again. Right now I have a complete BS7000 with a set of Beovox Penta, and a Samsung TV. All controlled with the Beo6
I often am thinking about the Moment and the newer MultiRoom products, but although I am sufficient in Network and computing, I cannot be bothered with more SW problems..
I was very very happy in the 90's and early 2000's, but I simply cannot get that feeling back with the current products.
BeoGreg:I don't know a product that can last forever. Best cars need service, best watches need service... Paying for a refoam or whatever on a twenty year old speaker is ok for me. My year 2000 beolab 8000 are still working like day one and I believe that with a good service they can go for twenty years again. What I don't like is that my dealer tells me that if my Beosound 9000 cd mech dies I can't make it repaired.
Best cars need service, best watches need service...
Paying for a refoam or whatever on a twenty year old speaker is ok for me.
My year 2000 beolab 8000 are still working like day one and I believe that with a good service they can go for twenty years again.
What I don't like is that my dealer tells me that if my Beosound 9000 cd mech dies I can't make it repaired.
Totally agree that most products require servicing. Foams and plastics will have plasticisers etc to make them function which are likely to degrade with time.
I agree that products don't last forever, however.. When I bought the BL8000, no one told med that after 15-20 years, they would require foam to be changed, if not, they will die.
When I buy a car, I know it needs oil and brakes and so on..
It's when the spares are not available for a quality product that people deserve to get disappointed.
Weebyx:I agree that products don't last forever, however.. When I bought the BL8000, no one told med that after 15-20 years, they would require foam to be changed, if not, they will die. When I buy a car, I know it needs oil and brakes and so on.. /Weebyx
Lee: Car manufacturers also won't tell you that after 20yrs the foam in the seats will have sagged, the speaker surrounds in the doors will need replacing and various plastic parts will have become brittle. Materials age... Some better that others. That's life.
Car manufacturers also won't tell you that after 20yrs the foam in the seats will have sagged, the speaker surrounds in the doors will need replacing and various plastic parts will have become brittle. Materials age... Some better that others. That's life.
You are correct, and I stand corrected. Maybe im just being old and unfair ;) but I really don't think that B&O is worth the money anymore. I know the marked is tough, and a small company like B&O cannot longer afford to keep up. Sad but true.. I used to love B&O and all my friends couldn't understand why I would pay that kind of money as 22 years old, when they bought Sony/Philips and so on for 1/10th the price. But every time I looked at my stereo, I smiled :)
The system I use most is my Beolab 5000 system though the MCL link system in the house does act as one big radio. It has been expertly restored by Frede of course but still sounds fantastic.
The only B&O flat screen I have is the Beovision 5 - all the others are CRT and still excellent, especially the sound.
On the car front, 71 Morris Traveller working fine - almost no plastic to be seen - the back half is mainly wood and aluminium - and the 72 GT6 is much the same - though the cardboard glove boxes are a bit rubbish!
Peter
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)