Do you recommend to use a non B&O Turntable to a B&O Soundsystem with Active Speakers?

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Sepi Posted: Thu, Dec 13 2012 6:56 AM

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I have the Beosound 4 and the Beolab 6000 and I was using for a while a Project Turntable with a Phono Preamp (TUBE BOX II also from Project) connected to the AUX of the beosound 4 trough a AVT2 MIT cable. 

The sound was not superb because there was always this ground noise that i did not manage to stop.

The main problem came when the phono preamp suddenly stopped working, and even if it was still quite new and i did not really use it very often.

I brought it to the TURNTABLE shop and they guy told me that probably because the B&O has active speakers, this overheated the phono preamp.  Besides he says that for a pure turntable sound he recommends a amplifier with passive speakers, and not like B&O offers nowadays.

So now i am basically scared to connect again the turntable with the phono preamp to the B&O system. I dont know what to believe or where it is the problem.

HELP!

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Peter replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 7:13 AM

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Complete drivel by the salesman! The input to the Beosound has no real effect on the pre-amp and the presence of active speakers absolutely none. Sounds like a fault in the pre-amp. Many of the best turntable systems use active speakers - active merely means that each driver is powered by a dedicated tailored amplifier and the cross over occurs before the power amplifier. I would avoid that salesman like the plague as he clearly knows nothing!

On 'pure turntable sound', I dare say he is thinking of speakers like the Beolab 5 which have digital to analogue converters but this is rubbish as well!!

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Sepi replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 10:33 AM

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Thanks Peter. I will not desist then.

Only problem is that i still dont know why i overheated the phono preamp... i am worried will happen again.. and that device is not cheap.

Also the damn ground noise... not very happy with my setup right now... 

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Sepi replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 10:35 AM

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oh yes i forgot.. that salesman keep insisting to buy a stabilizer to control the voltage power... do you think it is necessary?

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stefan replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 11:20 AM

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Completely agree with Peter!

What the salesman told you is absolutely nonsense!

And yes, a stabilizer is necessary to make profit for the salesman. If your RIAA preamp is ok, you won`t need one, and if it`s not ok, you will need another preamp.

Why not get a preamp from Sounds Heavenly:

http://www.soundsheavenly.co.uk/bando-riaa.htm

I think, Steve can also provide the correct cables.

I`m using turntables (Beo, with and without RIAAs) since years in my different setups - without any problems.

You can connect any line level source to any B&O system with active or passive speakers.

There is absolute no reason to overheat a preamp. Sorry, I never heard such a rubbish before...!

I think your preamp, or any electronic parts of it, were just faulty, which causes the overheating..(?)

Stefan

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Sepi replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 11:46 AM

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Thanks Stefan.

What about the ground noise? did you ever find this problem?

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joeyboygolf replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 12:14 PM

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Sepi:

Thanks Stefan.

What about the ground noise? did you ever find this problem?

Sounds to me that your pre amp is faulty. If it is under warranty then send it back and get it repaired or replaced.

I use a TC770LC from www.phonopreamps.com with excellent results.

The hum is likely caused by poor ground (earth) connections. You need an earth wire between the turntable chassis and the pre amp and a further earth wire between the pre amp and the B&O.

Kick the salesman into touch, he is talking rubbish!!!!

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stefan replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 12:58 PM

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No, I never had any ground noise - I would exactly try what Graham suggests with ground connections .

Stefan

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Peter replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 2:08 PM

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I would also get a far cheaper pre-amp! Avoid the tubes - this is fashion! A nice simple solid state RIAA amp will give you no bother and I defy anyone to hear the difference with the present set up. We are all suckers for kit like this - the nice glow of a couple of valves - many of these type of devices, and I do not include any specific model, have solid state architecture with a couple of valves bunged in to attract audiophiles. A friend of mine who writes for Hi-Fi magazines has regularly complained to me in despiring terms of what is sold! Unfortunately advertising talks - this explains the ridiculous interconnect and power cable tests you see. James Randi has offered $1,000,000 to anyone who can reliably differentiate such products - his money remains safe!

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Sepi replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 2:28 PM

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oh man... how i like to complicate my life... how happy was i with the ipod....

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Søren Mexico replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 2:54 PM

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Sepi:

oh man... how i like to complicate my life... how happy was i with the ipod....

Not complicated at all, as Graham I can recommend Phonopreamps, I've used a TC750 with connections for TT and 3 more sources, that gives you the possibility to connect your Ipod too, and maybe sound from TV or other.

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BO replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 8:58 PM

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Peter:

I would also get a far cheaper pre-amp.......... James Randi has offered $1,000,000 to anyone who can reliably differentiate such products - his money remains safe!

Good speech. There is to much snake oil out there!

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TWG replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 11:25 AM

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If you want another turntable go and get a Technics 1210.
Built like a tank and it's a shame that Technics finally stopped producing them.

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Jeff replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 3:50 PM

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I can also highly recommend the phonopreamps.com gear. I'm using one of these:

http://www.phonopreamps.com/TC-770LCpp.html

to connect my Beogram 3000 to my Beosound 9000 with excellent results. I chose this one because the B&O cartridges could use the extra, adjustable gain to match levels with the CD changer output of the Beosound, and it also has DIN inputs so I don't have to go DIN to RCA from the B&O table. Sounds great too, no noise, no hum, no drama.

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Peter replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 6:04 PM

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Jeff:

I can also highly recommend the phonopreamps.com gear. I'm using one of these:

http://www.phonopreamps.com/TC-770LCpp.html

to connect my Beogram 3000 to my Beosound 9000 with excellent results. I chose this one because the B&O cartridges could use the extra, adjustable gain to match levels with the CD changer output of the Beosound, and it also has DIN inputs so I don't have to go DIN to RCA from the B&O table. Sounds great too, no noise, no hum, no drama.

That looks very good and a reasonable price. 

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Sepi replied on Tue, Dec 18 2012 7:19 AM

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Hey guys thanks for your inputs.

I might have found the problem but I need to know what you think.... in the country where i am now and where i overheated the PhonoPreamp there is 220V and I see the phono preamp adaptor says 230V.

Do you think is this the problem?

Before i was in another country where the voltage was 240 and i had no problem except the HUM noise.

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly replied on Tue, Jan 8 2013 7:22 PM

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Hi Sepi,

There is certainly no need to worry here, as your problems can easily be solved without any major cost.  All Beosound audio systems are able to accept a turntable input by using a conventional pre-amplifier and this does not need to be a special high-end version to get good results.

I think that the noise issue here may possibly be related to either grounding of the turntable chassis, or with the use of passive circuitry between the pre-amp and the Beosound (by this, I mean the components inside your MIT cable).  To quote MIT's website, this cable has "New micro-componentry networks located in RCA housing"......

My suggestions would be to check that the ground wire of the turntable is securely connected to the pre-amp case and also to try replacing the MIT cable with a standard audio interconnect that does not have any circuitry fitted inside.  I suspect that these steps may reduce the background noise, as your Beosound was designed to perform well with conventional cabling.

If you have further problems, I would look at the RIAA phono pre-amp as suggested in the posts above.  There is nothing wrong with the pre-amp that you were using, but you may well get better results from a more reasonably priced pre-amp that doesn't use esoteric circuitry.

If you need any help with choosing cables to get the turntable working well with your system, please feel free to ask.

Kind regards, Steve.

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Sepi replied on Thu, Jan 24 2013 12:15 PM

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Sorry guys for my late reply but I was overseas for long time.

Finally it seems it was just a problem of the PRE AMPLIFIER.

As you know i had 2 problems: the HHHMMM noise and that the pre amplifier overheated and stopped working.

So basically i sent the pre amplifier (Project) to to fix it and now they just give it back to me and i have tried again and there is no HHMM noise... so i guess the pre amplifier was defective.

REALLY HAPPY TO FINALLY ENJOY MY VYNILS!

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Danny Wells replied on Fri, Jan 25 2013 3:15 PM

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I bought a new Beomaster 3000-2 and a Beogram 3000 in 1973. I was not happy with the Beogram 3000 and so changed to a Linn Sondek LP12/SME3009/Shure V15 III - AMAZING!

My son has a 3000-2 coupled to a Rega Planar turntable fitted with a Shure cartridge - brilliant sound in every respect.

I also own a Beomaster 4000 which is similarly teamed up with a second LP12/SME 3009 S2/Shure V15vxMR - again a superb match.

Just to show that I am not anti Beograms, I have a complete 6500 set-up with the Beogram 6500/MMC2 combination - good but very prone to highlighting every snap/crackle/pop on my Vinyls, something that the Shure cartridges seem to minimise.

Hope this helps you.

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Peter replied on Fri, Jan 25 2013 3:33 PM

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The advantage of Beograms is that they are easy to set up and use. The Linn should be a better deck but does require more dedication to extract the best from it. You are clearly a vinyl fan and I can fully understand why you should take this route. Maybe you should try a Beogram 3000 Thorens as I think you would find it closer to your taste.

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Danny Wells replied on Sat, Jan 26 2013 5:17 PM

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I admit that the Linn/SME/Shure takes a bit of setting up - I reckon on around an hour starting from scratch or about 30 minutes if I decide to change the headshell/cartridge for a different combination. That said, once the unit is set up, it stays in perfect balance, is totally without problems and provided that you don't mind getting up to lift the arm off the vinyl at the end of each side, which can be a bit of a pain in truth ! it really extracts everything there is from the pressing.

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Sepi replied on Tue, Jan 29 2013 7:29 AM

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Hey guys me again, i just realized my pre amplfier gets warm very fast.. not that i will burn my hand if i touch it.. but as it is my first pre amp.. not sure if this is normal...

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly replied on Tue, Jan 29 2013 8:06 AM

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Hi Sepi,

No, that is not normal....phono pre-amps only use a tiny amount of electrical current, so they should usually remain cool to the touch.  I would suggest contacting the store where you bought the pre-amp, as it may be that the particular model that you have does run hot, but it is more likely to be an early sign of a problem.

Kind regards, Steve.

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tournedos replied on Tue, Jan 29 2013 9:31 AM

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly:

No, that is not normal....phono pre-amps only use a tiny amount of electrical current, so they should usually remain cool to the touch.

As it is called TUBE BOX II, I believe this might not be the case

By a quick glance at the specs, it seems to consume about 8W which isn't that much (about the same as a typical ADSL router, for example) but it should certainly get warm.

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Steve at Sounds Heavenly replied on Tue, Jan 29 2013 9:42 AM

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Yes, tube pre-amps are a special case!  The extra current required to heat the valves may well make the pre-amp warm or even hot.

My comments about pre-amps using a low current and staying cool refer to transistor pre-amps, as they are the most popular type in use.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards, Steve.

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Jeff replied on Tue, Jan 29 2013 2:35 PM

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You know, while I understand well the allure of tubes (I always seem to have a tube amp in service somewhere around the house) a phono preamp is about the worst place to actually use tubes. In the old days you had no choice, but today? In this role tubes are prone to noise, hum, micro phonics, and other non linearities. I have had a few tube preamps and their phono sections were always the weakest link IMO. Today's op amps are ideally suited, high gain with vanishingly low noise, high input impedances, low power consumption, don't wear out, etc. not that you can't make a good tube phono pre, it's just a lot harder. 

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ReneB replied on Sun, Nov 27 2016 2:49 PM

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thanks ! I see also a slightly different model which has USB, suggesting it will made digitizing the LP to my new MacBook to become easy-peasy....the TC-760LC-SILVER-Phono-TC-ADUSB.  But htat one doesn't have the "story" wrt B&O on it, but maybe that's just the DIN connection ?

thanks again on this nice sunny Amsterdam afternoon
rene