Cat7 cables instead of ML and Powerlink

Hello,

 

I am planning a major renovation of our home and would like to add cabling to the plan.

 

To the extent I understand, it now seems B&O is recommending CAT7 cables rather than ML cables.

So my questions are:

1) CAT7 instead of ML and PL cables, which type should I use is it the "S/FTP"?

2) Where can I see and order termination options, i.e. wall plates that are for CAT7, I do not seem to be able to find any.

3) Can I buy a tool so I can squeeze on CAT7 connectors like I can for CAT5? I have seen CAT7 connectors that claim to work without a tool? 

4) How much can 1 CAT7 cable hold? Can it do more than ML cable? Can I for instance combine 1 CAT7 with PowerLink or just act as ML?

5) CAT7 as PowerLink: can it handle L and R signal? Perhaps more or less?

6) HDMI: can 1 CAT7 cable replace an HDMI or would you really need 2 CAT7 per HDMI?

 

Many thanks!!!

Anything else I should be thinking about?

BeoMedia:

Hello,

I am planning a major renovation of our home and would like to add cabling to the plan.

To the extent I understand, it now seems B&O is recommending CAT7 cables rather than ML cables.

So my questions are:

1) CAT7 instead of ML and PL cables, which type should I use is it the "S/FTP"?

Yes, S/FTP is what you want.

BeoMedia:

2) Where can I see and order termination options, i.e. wall plates that are for CAT7, I do not seem to be able to find any.

Shielded CAT6/6A keystone jacks will be fine. The RJ45 style of connector doesn't reliably support the frequency requirements of the Cat7 specs which was why alternatives such as TERA were devised, but in this instance we're not really concerned with this, just that the cable is S/FTP.

BeoMedia:

3) Can I buy a tool so I can squeeze on CAT7 connectors like I can for CAT5? I have seen CAT7 connectors that claim to work without a tool? 

You can't / didn't ought to crimp plugs directly onto the ends of the solid core cable you will use within the structure of the building, so use the keystone jacks (above) for this and terminate into a keystone faceplace. Many keystone jacks require no specific tool to terminate.

You'll need a crimp tool suitable for whatever type of shielded RJ45 plugs you are using (as well as suitable stranded S/FTP cable) for any 'patch' leads you want to make, but equally you can buy the relevant cables to go between your equipment and the wall jacks (either from B&O, or from Sounds Heavenly).

BeoMedia:

4) How much can 1 CAT7 cable hold? Can it do more than ML cable? Can I for instance combine 1 CAT7 with PowerLink or just act as ML?

One Cat 7 cable is equivalent to one ML cable or one PL cable.

BeoMedia:

5) CAT7 as PowerLink: can it handle L and R signal? Perhaps more or less?

Yes, one Cat 7 cable used as powerlink will carry both L + R signal.

BeoMedia:

6) HDMI: can 1 CAT7 cable replace an HDMI or would you really need 2 CAT7 per HDMI?

Some older HDMI over Cat converters etc required two cables per HDMI, but most now use HDBASET standard and require only one Cat7 cable.

BeoMedia:

 

Many thanks!!!

Anything else I should be thinking about?

You'll need to consider whether you want to 1) run cables direct from, for example, a TV to it's speakers, or 2) run everything back to a central location, or 3) a combination of the two approaches. In general I would recommend options 2 or 3 for maximum future flexibility - if you are carrying out a full renovation it is better to run too many cables, than discover later that you don't have enough.

If you can provide floor plans and an idea of what devices you are placing where, as well as an indication of whether you intend to use an HDMI matrix, I'll happily mark them up with suggestions for cable runs if this would help.

Kind regards,

Martin.

Hi Martin,

Thank you so much for your reply and offer to mark up cable runs.

As it is a very old flat it is not straight forward where to draw the cables as I would like them to be as invisible as possible.

Before I start deciding where to have things I still feel I need to understand a little more of CAT7 cabling. To my understanding CAT7 is a recommended cable by B&O as it is very shielded which is important for the analogue ML signals. However I have also read that the CAT7 installation cable will be damaged if bent sharp 90 degrees which makes it impossible to draw around a door opening (I saw this mentioned in B&O's handbook). This got me thinking that perhaps a shielded CAT6 cable is a better choice provided it is more flexible and can handle to be bent more and still offers sufficient shielding?

If it is a real pain to install CAT7 for ML purposes it may very well prove a cheaper solution to swap the BeoLab 3500 and BeoLab 2000 out with one of the new solutions from B&O BeoLink Multiroom but that also feels unnecessary and a shame.

HDMI matrix: I guess this would be if I wanted to say share the Blu Ray with other tv's, not sure I need this, the Apple MacMini can run as a server and stream to Apple TV's around the home if need be in addition to Netflix on the same. Granted will not offer Blu Ray though. Not sure I need a HDMI matrix but if I do I guess it would make sense to think about this now at the same time as the rest.

My equipment and installation will likely be split up as below:

Living room: BeoVision 11 (NL, easy as standard ethernet will be fine, signal is digital) and BeoLab 14 (from the sub signals to the 4 satellites are amplified speaker cables).

Bedroom: BeoVision 6 (ML)

Dining room: BeoSound 3000 (ML), BeoLab 1 and BeoLab 2.

Kitchen: BeoLab 2000 (ML).

Office: BeoLab 3500 (ML).

Would be cool to do a drawing once when I know a little more I can make a decision where to put things.

Many thanks in advance, BeoMedia

I have found a 100m roll of CAT7 S/FTP white Installation cable on the internet by the brand "Deltaco". Is this a good brand or a stay away? Price is around £90 when converted to £.

I have no idea but the description/specification is correct.

BeoMedia:

Thank you so much for your reply and offer to mark up cable runs.

As it is a very old flat it is not straight forward where to draw the cables as I would like them to be as invisible as possible.

Yeah, I obviously can't advise on cable routes as I haven't seen the property, but I can help mark up how many of each type of cable between each position once you've decided which devices go where if that would help.

BeoMedia:

To my understanding CAT7 is a recommended cable by B&O as it is very shielded which is important for the analogue ML signals. However I have also read that the CAT7 installation cable will be damaged if bent sharp 90 degrees which makes it impossible to draw around a door opening (I saw this mentioned in B&O's handbook). This got me thinking that perhaps a shielded CAT6 cable is a better choice provided it is more flexible and can handle to be bent more and still offers sufficient shielding?

There's nothing wrong with using masterlink cable and powerlink cable, so if routes are difficult it might be easier to use powerlink cable between the devices and their speakers (but masterlink cable vs CAT cable won't gain you anything as far as bend radius is concerned).

I guess B&Os reason for recommending CAT7 for new installs is about providing a transition path to newer technologies. Network link audio is just Ethernet so currently requires nothing more that unshielded cat5e. Aside from very fast data links (10Gbps+), HDBase-T which is used for HDMI video distribution over cat cable is really the only area that actually requires CAT7 today (potentially it will work over CAT5 / CAT6 too, but only over much shorter distances).

The bend radius of S/FTP CAT6 is unlikely to be much different to S/FTP CAT7 as it's really the shielding that ends up becoming deformed / damaged when the cable is bent tightly - bending the cable around a coke can or a tennis ball are both good approximations of the tightest the bends should be.

Hope this helps

Martin.

BeoMedia:

I have found a 100m roll of CAT7 S/FTP white Installation cable on the internet by the brand "Deltaco". Is this a good brand or a stay away? Price is around £90 when converted to £.

I have no idea but the description/specification is correct.

It's not a brand I know so I can't really comment either way.

TE-Connectivity / AMP Netconnect is the brand that B&O use.

Martin.

riverstyx:

BeoMedia:

5) CAT7 as PowerLink: can it handle L and R signal? Perhaps more or less?

Yes, one Cat 7 cable used as powerlink will carry both L + R signal.

Slightly related to this: Do I understand correctly that if I take a Cat 7 cable, cut off one end and connect a 5 pin DIN to it I will have a RJ45 powerlink - 5 Pin audio cable for e.g. Playmaker to classic B&O? Or is the line-lever audio not transported correctly through the cables (as is it not a digital signal).

Thanks

Yes, you can do this - just watch out though that some patch cables use aluminium (usually for the braided shield) and you'll have a hard time soldering this to anything!

Martin.

 

 

 

riverstyx:

Yes, you can do this - just watch out though that some patch cables use aluminium (usually for the braided shield) and you'll have a hard time soldering this to anything!

Thanks. Any way I can see that on the outside? I saw cables for 2,5€, and also for 20€ online.

riverstyx:

I guess B&Os reason for recommending CAT7 for new installs is about providing a transition path to newer technologies. Network link audio is just Ethernet so currently requires nothing more that unshielded cat5e. Aside from very fast data links (10Gbps+), HDBase-T which is used for HDMI video distribution over cat cable is really the only area that actually requires CAT7 today (potentially it will work over CAT5 / CAT6 too, but only over much shorter distances).

Martin, after reading your post again, do you think I can make a Playmaker RJ45 powerlink > Beomaster 5pin DIN audio cable by simply cutting the end of a CAT5 cable? After I upgraded to CAT5e for gigabit ethernet in my home I have many CAT5 cables laying around. They also seem more flexible than the CAT7 cables, which is good because I need to fit it in a vintage cabinet.

Thanks.

Today I connected a 5 pin DIN to a CAT 5 cable. Only 3 pins needed, and the result is good as far as I can tell. I just got my Playmaker and connected it to the beomaster 5500. With a fixed output level to the TAPE makes it a perfect solution: if I select A.Mem, the playmaker and the beomaster activate, and I can skipp my tracks with beo4.

Hello, CAT7 cable now in the walls and I need to chose the right sort of outlet / wall plate / keystone (where the cables terminate). Both in the walls and for the patch panel.

Question, my electrician is saying that CAT7 outlets or keystones do not exist in RJ45 format. Is that correct? Which ones is B&O using for their installation? 

All B&O write in their manual called "Cat7/Class F New Installation Concept, New infrastructure, Handbook" (see URL below):

 is: "Straight connector used for wall outlet. Installation cable goes straight into the connector.

 

http://www.abo-center.dk/Abo_center_2/reptips/diagrammer/Link/Cat7%20New%20B&onet%20handbook.pdf

Many thanks, BeoMedia

Hello, CAT7 cable now in the walls and I need to chose the right sort of outlet / wall plate / keystone (where the cables terminate). Both in the walls and for the patch panel.

Question, my electrician is saying that CAT7 outlets or keystones do not exist in RJ45 format. Is that correct? Which ones is B&O using for their installation? 

All B&O write in their manual called "Cat7/Class F New Installation Concept, New infrastructure, Handbook" (see URL below):

 is: "Straight connector used for wall outlet. Installation cable goes straight into the connector.

 

http://www.abo-center.dk/Abo_center_2/reptips/diagrammer/Link/Cat7%20New%20B&onet%20handbook.pdf

Many thanks, BeoMedia

Hello, CAT7 cable now in the walls and I need to chose the right sort of outlet / wall plate / keystone (where the cables terminate). Both in the walls and for the patch panel.

Question, my electrician is saying that CAT7 outlets or keystones do not exist in RJ45 format. Is that correct? Which ones is B&O using for their installation? 

All B&O write in their manual called "Cat7/Class F New Installation Concept, New infrastructure, Handbook" (see URL below):

 is: "Straight connector used for wall outlet. Installation cable goes straight into the connector.

 

http://www.abo-center.dk/Abo_center_2/reptips/diagrammer/Link/Cat7%20New%20B&onet%20handbook.pdf

Many thanks, BeoMedia

Hello, CAT7 cable now in the walls and I need to chose the right sort of outlet / wall plate / keystone (where the cables terminate). Both in the walls and for the patch panel.

Question, my electrician is saying that CAT7 outlets or keystones do not exist in RJ45 format. Is that correct? Which ones is B&O using for their installation? 

All B&O write in their manual called "Cat7/Class F New Installation Concept, New infrastructure, Handbook" (see URL below):

 is: "Straight connector used for wall outlet. Installation cable goes straight into the connector.

 

http://www.abo-center.dk/Abo_center_2/reptips/diagrammer/Link/Cat7%20New%20B&onet%20handbook.pdf

Many thanks, BeoMedia

Hello, CAT7 cable now in the walls and I need to chose the right sort of outlet / wall plate / keystone (where the cables terminate). Both in the walls and for the patch panel.

Question, my electrician is saying that CAT7 outlets or keystones do not exist in RJ45 format. Is that correct? Which ones is B&O using for their installation? 

All B&O write in their manual called "Cat7/Class F New Installation Concept, New infrastructure, Handbook" (see URL below):

 is: "Straight connector used for wall outlet. Installation cable goes straight into the connector.

 

http://www.abo-center.dk/Abo_center_2/reptips/diagrammer/Link/Cat7%20New%20B&onet%20handbook.pdf

Many thanks, BeoMedia

BeoMedia:

Question, my electrician is saying that CAT7 outlets or keystones do not exist in RJ45 format. Is that correct? Which ones is B&O using for their installation? 

i've also CAT7 cables everywhere in the walls and all outlets where done by my electrician, without any question, in RJ45. and  the B&O-technician cramped the old Masterlink cables into RJ45 outlets

Thanks yes I agree they are RJ45 from B&O but which sort? CAT7 or less?

The B&O supplied RJ45 keystone outlets are Cat6 - more specifically they are AMP Netconnect AMP-Twist SL series.

Your electrician is right that there are no Cat7 compliant RJ45 outlets as it is not possible to meet the frequency requirements of Cat7 in this connector format, but for B&O use this isn't an issue so any shielded Cat6 or Cat6e keystone outlet designed for S/FTP cable and designed to accept the conductor size of whichever brand of Cat7 cable you are using will be fine.

Last time I checked B&O's prices for the AMP-Twist SL jacks was actually pretty competitive but this will depend of course on whether packs of 24 suit your needs. You'll also have to factor in the cost of the termination tool if you use these jacks whereas some manufacturers make outlets with tool-less installation.

Kind regards,

Martin.

Hi

I'm using Cat6a S/FTP and in theory will be doing the following below to Masterlink with the white cable in the pictures. I am also terminating powerlink in this way for the speakers.

Hi All

Below is a pic of the cable I am using - 23awg

It says U/FTP but around all twisted pairs, there's an overall shield.

I have tested for Masterlink to work through this and confirm it works fine 👍🏻💯

Pic below:

RJ45 to ML.

Take a look at:

https://www.telegaertner.com/en/info/highlights/mfp8/

Cables are now installed and correct CAT6A outlets on the walls. 
Now to connect the equipment, I see (and user posted in this thread) that B&O is offering a RJ45 to ML cable. However, if I wanted to use my old ML cables with plugs and wanted to crimp on a RJ45 modular plug, would this be possible? I am thinking it is a challenge as the ML cable is like an installation cable (solid wires within the cables) and modular plugs only have room for non-installation wires.

 

Is the B&O ML to RJ45 an installation cable?

What kind of RJ45 are they using?

Does anyone have experience with crimping an sufficiently shielded CAT6A (?) to an old ML cable?

Alternatively, I could perhaps buy a prefabricated CAT6A cable, cut it in half and use a ML junction box to connect to an old ML cable, then again might not be a stable setup as the CAT6A cable would not be of solid wires and thus not as solid a connection.

 

Ideas welcome :-)

 

Almost there with my project, always a challenge to combine different generations of B&O infrastructure but with a little patience it should work.

 

Thanks BeoMedia

BeoMedia:

I see (and user posted in this thread) that B&O is offering a RJ45 to ML cable. However, if I wanted to use my old ML cables with plugs and wanted to crimp on a RJ45 modular plug, would this be possible?

I found this at page 176 in the BeoLink Handbook v1.7:

Question: Is it possible to crimp an RJ45 plug on existing Master Link or Power Link cables?

Answer: No, it will give reliability problems over time