Where do you think AV is heading?

The question is basically in the thread heading...  

Families don't sit around the TV any more to watch the 'big soaps' at 7pm or 7.30pm, nor do they all sit and watch a movie together in the lounge of an evening. They just don't sit together as a family in front of the TV as there's so much choice - and they can 'consume content' in the privacy of their own 'devices'.  The physical TV is something which has become a bit of a novelty, as opposed to a necessity.  It's something you have when the guys want to watch a game and have a few beers, or the girls want to have some drinks and watch a series which other girls talk about. It's just a commodity.

Music seems to be something that's on in the background as we check our tablets and phones for Facebook, Twitter and Instagram feeds. It has to sound good, but it has to be convenient. One touch, connect, Music, then lets get on with our socialising. It sounds good? Yes. Okay.. Cool - that's what we want. Let's move on.

The AV game has changed. We don't buy an album, take it home, unwrap it, smell the fresh vinyl as we slide it out of the cover, lay it on the platter, sit back, and listen. We didn't have smart phones then - nor did we have internet. We just had music to listen to.

Then CD's - Digital. Better sound, less crackle, but we bought a CD, and we sat and listened to it. No distractions. We listened, we loved our CD player, we loved our speakers - and we constantly looked to upgrade our system.

Now?  Where is it all at... Where is it going? Where will it end up?  Will we go full-circle and listen to music like we used to - or will it become just 'background noise' as we do things we deem more important?

TV? Will we ditch screens altogether? Will we just have a cheap yet high-performance projector which we wheel out for the big games or popular series when our friends are round, tied to our Bluetooth audio speakers - or even pairing to their smart phones and personal wireless earphones. Connectivity is easy these days, in any shape or form. As any company knows - if you exclude, you lose a customer.  Look at MasterLink...  It was great at keeping customers in for many years - then it became great at keeping customers out.

The world is changing - and so is AV.  I'd love to hear your thoughts and predictions as it's such a fickle, dynamic and convenience-driven industry.

What do you think?  

Think all of the above is fairly well rehearsed no?

The mainstream consumer spends more of their income on mobile type experiences, that's been the trend, that won't likely change, but B&O have the Play brand to piggy back off that to a degree.

As for bigger fixtures, which the main brand covers is where the market may be moving against them. We've covered the TV debate ad nauseum, it's a competitive landscape with short cycles and lots of reduced price end of life gear, which doesn't help their ultra premium TV range.

The bigger change in habits I think is in the speaker market - i see far fewer lounges with stereo speakers, and far more with single one point speaker units. Sonos works well enough for many, even well heeled buyers. But here I don't think you can throw too much mud at what B&O have done speaker wise, it's more that front and centre listening is arguably less important - especially as for many their primary music device is their phone, the rest just drops out from there.

In the end, they have never been a company with a huge audience - and there will always be people for whom home audio is important and who look for something more prominent than a one box speaker. Which comes down to pricing - the sales delta might be surprisingly good if the premium stuff was a touch cheaper. Speculation of course, but if the BL50's were 17k not 23k, for example, would they sell a materially higher volume?

That to me is where they can more easily make an impact - keeping their high end stuff within range.

In the same direction as the music and television, movies content and so forth.

Not good and rock is dead as several online places are saying.

Is there a need for obsolete B&O anymore? Music around the house to enjoy and turn up for? To discover and inspire one self to get into being a musician?

You still work for the majority of people at least a certain 40 hours pr week + family and every thing else. What else do we have time for? 

Is televison essential when the content is really crap as always and now your needs can be fullfilled in other ways?

Then we have the economy and do the people have the money to invest in higher quality AV along with the interest? 

How did it go away? Well technology decided that now cd's were out and Ipods etc were the order but the need for a proper system to play around the house? How did that need go away? Has it even?

Now you just don't have to settle for your viewing pleasure when finally trying to unwind from day to day but for most a screen is something you will find on some sort at least for the majority of sports fans and all other niche groups.

The basic needs will always be in peoples habits while the world evolves around it.  Changing habits such as how to enjoy music or watch movies or hear radio will never go. As long as newer generations get's introduced to it and that is the biggest key to survive for people selling AV.

 

As soon as LG can retail an UHD OLED panel so thin and pliable, you simply apply it to a wall like a thick wallpaper, its game over.

https://youtu.be/f-cUjblOVq0

Speakers like the 12 series will be potentially massive market for B&O though , if it acts quick enough!

I think that most families will still want a main TV in the living room despite all the options now available for personal viewing or listening. As TV's move more and more towards behaving as large computer screens, maybe they should go all the way and come with XBox type games already built in.

Parents will also want to control what young family members can access on phones or iPads etc.

Landline telephones are often essential, but only because they are part of packages (and are still favoured by banks and the like who need to confirm your identity and address). But we've noticed that most younger relatives do not give out or use their landline numbers and prefer all communications to be via mobile phone. 

I'm not sure that wallpaper screens will catch on in a big way. It's ironic that most room layouts probably favoured the bulky CRT television sat in the corner with its bulk out of sight. How many homes now have a giant flat screen still across a room corner? Motorised or hinged stands must still have a huge market if well designed.

I've said it before.... B&O need to market motorised soundbars with the PUC control in the soundbar so that any make of TV screen can be clamped onto it and controlled via one remote.

As for sound systems people seem to be happy to get true stereo via headphones and background music via speakers scattered around the house. Personally, I've belatedly discovered the benefits of synchronised but separately controlled sound via MasterLink.

Graham

I took Lee's question to be more of a lifestyle question than a B&O question.

The memory of LPs and CDs is my experience.

But then that changed.

Not so much because of technology

But because of how busy my life was

I returned to CDs at about the time that download and streaming really took off

So now I am very much a mixed economy individual

Nonetheless I probably only listen to an hour of music a day

And where as I used to listen to several hours each weekend it's probably no more than an hour these days

On the other hand of the household we have still ever the TV watchers

However we are doing a lot of timeshifting and a lot of streaming

We never watch commercial channels

And even ABC and SBS we often access via catch up apps on the ATV

And we are more likely to purchase or rent a movie via iTunes them to actually go to the theatre these dates

Visits to the cinema are rare and reserved for specials/ blockbusters such as avatar or arrival

I suspect that as a family we are dinosaurs !!!

I think it's far more complex and there will always be room for a TV set or projector or the like.

Younger people seem to want to watch on ipads and small sets because they are more mobile. As you get older or in a couple you will want to watch TV or Films together - then depending on how much room you have and where you live will dictate what and how you watch or listen.

New houses or flats mean that you cant have massive speakers unless you want the environmental noise people banging on your door. Rooms in newer properties seem to be smaller so massive sets dominate the room - although these days it seems the less you have the better - look at estate agents and the trend for nothing in a room apart from a huge sofa and picture of the family above a fireplace - perhaps in that setting a large TV provides a focal point of interest. If you live in a detached house you can go for bigger speakers and maybe a dedicated media room. Some older people or disabled people may spend more time watching TV so want a dedicated device rather than watching on an iPad. Some people like to watch TV in bed. Some people want music all over the house whilst others are happy with Radio 4 on a Roberts in the kitchen. Some want a TV hidden away behind a screen or in a cabinet. Another factor is that there is a trend for more and more people to live on their own - and entertain themselves - housing costs are high and you cant be out all the time so a large TV and decent stereo are great for nights in - also good for having friends round to watch a film or an event. Maybe even as we socially isolate ourselves with social media they become even more important? A hike in the interest rates will mean that more people are forced to do less and so home becomes even more important? It's happened before - I remember the early 90's when I had my first flat in London - interest rates were so high that you had no choice but to socialise with your neighbours.

I don't really see that much has changed as when I was growing up you watched TV with your parents until you were a teenagers and then had aTV in your bedroom that you could watch on your own - albeit with only 4 or 5 channels, listened to music on your own and joined the family for big films or event viewing. As a student you had a portable TV rather than a 26" set because it was easy to move and take with you. Then you got a big set when you bought your own place.

Maybe as the sets get thinner and hangable on a wall and cheaper we will see them everywhere.

What I think will change will be what we watch and listen with more and more choice available through streaming both radio and TV and people becoming more selective rather than just having it on in the background.

In summary; a mixture of, at what stage in life you are at, where you live, how you live, the economy and what there is available to listen and watch - most likely then that there will always be a need for something to suit everyone because we are all different and at different stages of life and different budgets.

Great post Andrew! I have had similar experiences to those you describe and agree completely with your sentiments on the thread topic. Really well put!

9 LEE:

What do you think?  

The only observation I have is how under 30s seem to enjoy A/V. Mostly illegally and on either their laptop or smartphone. I can go to my local gym (I won't name them) and they've downloaded the latest movie (ie. one being shown in the cinema) and watching at lunch, in a public environment. They then blatantly talk to me about this new great film and whether I've seen it - I ask if it's in the cinema and they tell me they've just downloaded it. They can't see any issue with this! A friend I travel with is doing the thing on his laptop on the plane. 

They don't really use iTunes, they often don't even use Spotify either. They rip tracks or simply find them and then store them on their smartphone and create their own playlists.

Sad thing is, it's the new norm. It's what they expect. In this new world where content is easy to find and 'freely' available for them, they take advantage and don't care. Plus they are more than happy simply watching a movie on their laptop.

Realistically, I do wonder how many of these young people will go forward and buy a 65" TV and get a £120/month Sky/BT Sport subscription? They think I'm mad to even consider getting a 65" TV. And I'm starting to wonder if it's really uncool and "old school" as a result. 

But the key thing is: they are aren't spending money on huge TVs, expensive channel subscriptions or buying brand new albums. They spend almost no money on media or media equipment.

moxxey:

The only observation I have is how under 30s seem to enjoy A/V. Mostly illegally and on either their laptop or smartphone. I can go to my local gym (I won't name them) and they've downloaded the latest movie (ie. one being shown in the cinema) and watching at lunch, in a public environment. They then blatantly talk to me about this new great film and whether I've seen it - I ask if it's in the cinema and they tell me they've just downloaded it. They can't see any issue with this! A friend I travel with is doing the thing on his laptop on the plane. 

I have a friend whose son plays bass with a very famous band. He tells me that they make little money from recordings or videos, presumably because of this problem. Their main income now comes from touring, playing to thousands at a time in arenas.

Graham

vikinger:

moxxey:

The only observation I have is how under 30s seem to enjoy A/V. Mostly illegally and on either their laptop or smartphone. I can go to my local gym (I won't name them) and they've downloaded the latest movie (ie. one being shown in the cinema) and watching at lunch, in a public environment. They then blatantly talk to me about this new great film and whether I've seen it - I ask if it's in the cinema and they tell me they've just downloaded it. They can't see any issue with this! A friend I travel with is doing the thing on his laptop on the plane. 

I have a friend whose son plays bass with a very famous band. He tells me that they make little money from recordings or videos, presumably because of this problem. Their main income now comes from touring, playing to thousands at a time in arenas.

Graham

Very true Graham. The interesting twist is they *do* pay to go to shows, events and anywhere they can socialise with their mates. So the friend I mention who downloads the latest movie on his laptop is meeting up with two old school friends for "Austin City Limits" in October where tickets are $100+ each!

So, movies and music, on a personal level, is ripped and watched on portable devices. But they get together with friends to pay and go to events.

While I agree with the spirit of most that has been written above, I think there is a danger of conflating the broader trends with what the prospects are for a luxury brand like B&O.

There will always be a market for entertainment products with a high design and performance quotient, so they have a future as long as they can deliver on that premise. They don't need to be leaders on newer interfaces like voice activation, their products just need to be able to work with these newer forms of interaction.

Technology presents challenges, sometimes existential, for many in the entertainment field. There are errors of (not) forecasting and errors of execution.

If anything the rap against B&O is the latter more so than the former, in my view. And that includes maintaining a slightly sensible pricing structure.

Sandyb:

There will always be a market...

There may be, but it's an ever-decreasing market, much like the desktop PC market, as an example. People don't go out in 2017 pro-actively buying a desktop PC (monitor, workstation, keyboard) for home - certainly not those <30s, which is the future market. You can't rely on the 40s, 50s, 60s to prop up your future.

The younger generation is re-defining the entire market, primarily as they lack any funds, don't have the space for these big devices and are more interested in the fun aspect rather than sitting around a huge screen enjoying "the best picture quality" which appears to be the universally most-discussed TV topic on this forum (how sad, 'eh?).

So, yes, there's "always a market" for anything (desktop PC or expensive big TVs), it's just a declining and decreasing market. The problem here is many of us from the older generation bury our heads slightly in how we *want* things to be, rather than how they really are.

oh i agree, its a shrinking market...we can debate the pace and extent, but i'm with you. They've never been especially mass market, so they'll continue to sell products to their target market on the assumption that they're good enough. Their issues seem largely self inflicted, with poor execution and high relative pricing, so don't under estimate the challenges.

So i'm not of an entirely different mind, and have voiced concerns over the declining big screen market (not everyone agrees). But i don't think these things disappear that quickly, by which i mean the desire for a (perhaps only one yes) big screen and something to produce a decent audio experience will still be around in some form in 10 years time. Lower and later home ownership will mean people buy a big screen a bit less often than before, of course.

Imagine where they'd be without the Play brand, so they re not entirely blind to the broader shifts.

 

The > 30 also get older.

I did not have a 'big screen and huge stationary speakers' when I was > 30 either.

MM

I think AV is already heading that way. As the world gets more crowded and people all clamouring for personal space I think TV is just on demand on your phone and headphones.

Walk around at lunch and see how many people are watching a show or something on their phone.

In time this will just be walking commercials and more ad driven.

After that gets old then people will go back to big screen (cyclical) and think of what they have missed out on.

Millemissen:

I did not have a 'big screen and huge stationary speakers' when I was > 30 either.

To be fair, it's more like <40-year-old now. Most people under 40 can't afford/justify B&O and that upcoming market is very different to when *we* were in our 20/30s, which is the precise point of this thread. Times have changed.

We all had TVs and borrowed DVDs. But now their attitude has completely changed. They love the personal portability experience over sitting around a huge screen in your small apartment/home - and let's face it, the two key options now are 55+ or 65" when were were buying 28" or 32", so now buying a TV is more like buying a cinematic experience which dominates your wall.

The main reason is that the world is getting saturated with desktop pc's and the like. A desk top pc can last for years then you can upgrade it as the technology moves forward in the terms of hardware and software. 

 

Some really interesting answers.  I'm glad it was taken in the context it was intended - as in 'Where do you think AV is heading', and not 'Where do you think B&O are heading'

I genuinely meant Audio Visual products.  I'm trying to put on my 'future-goggles' and get at least some kind of idea where the AV market will be in 2, 3, 5 or 10 years time. 

How will people watch TV, how will people listen to music, what sources will they use, what actual hardware will they want, what might change, what might stay the same, what's coming which will totally disrupt the AV industry, if anything?

Lee

Amen

That's sadly the reality and the trend. Not only for the av market.

Just a quick thought...I don't think the whole stereo/surround setup and dedicated place to watch TV will ever go completely away, but one thing that I think the modern world has brought (and not just with AV) is a fracturing of the near monolithic approach of previous years. Tablets, laptops, portable speakers, big TVs, etc. streaming, have allowed far more options than ever before and people are choosing what works for them. Instead of an average of what most people do/want with a tightly coupled variance or standard deviation, you now may have an average that's shifted from what it was (e.g. fewer people with big TVs) but the variance is much higher, more people are doing their own thing and fewer doing the average. That being said, it appears the traditional approach is being chosen by fewer people. Of course, the fact many younger people can't afford big screens, and may also not be living on their own but still with their parents, skews this as well.

Until right now, I don't know nobody that doesn't have a big screen in the house/flat in a corner or some kind and everybody from the youngest kids to the grandparents is enjoying that experience.

Usb stick for pictures hurray the big screen, movie hurray the big screen, latest series hurray the big screen, a game on PS4 or similar...

Music, well I haven't seen a real music system for ages around me (not a plastic or conic speaker). I still play a cd a few minutes every day while dressing in the morning on BS 9000 but otherwise it's my Iphone on the A1 or Beolit 15 or the Tivoli that replaced my BS3. And I can't leave without music around me.

So I believe that big screen will still be around even if there are tiny screens available and music system like we loved them (a player and separate speakers) are dead.

The odd thing about the AV market contracting / shrinking (as people have said above, and as seems to be the case)  is that it is happening alongside content proliferating and becoming ubiquitous.   Instant access to music and video content, in HQ (of varying degrees) is now in most peoples pocket.

For music, the boom in live shows has been driven by improved sound, the growth in festivals and TV coverage of the same, a change in artist & label financial needs as streaming hits sales.   The AV industry may see some access to this sector -via Augmented reality incorporated into shows - but that will be niche, if it happens at all and will be mobile device driven.

B&O do (still, just) seem well placed to be seen as the go-to quality speaker supplier for people (under40) to use on the end of their mobile device...  the Beoplay speakers & headphones have shown this, to an extent.   Beolabs can be used on almost anything (an under-sold area, imo, by most dealers).

The main B&O brand must do similar, and regain that  profile in the home, for both audio and video.   How is another question.  

When I sold Avants, AV9000, Beossounds / centres and MX TV's, the price was ALWAYS an issue, particularly in the Thatcher-savaged wastelands of north Manchester -  - but in most minds, the quality/readability/performance was a given.  A few pedants and What HiFi readers would trot out the line, "its just a Philips in a posh box" ....  but most people saw the value, and the reasons for the premium.   Is that still the case?   I don't know - I am a decade out of the industry, but I suspect not. 

For example, the number of bedrooms/kitchens/lofts we put MX4002 into was mind boggling at around £2k per room (inc cabling & a stand/bracket) in the late 90's - for a 21" 4:3 TV.    

Now netflix/spotify etc are established, stable and cheap, surely it is all about easy, high quality access to this content.    Some of the options on the way to these services were a real challenge, btw - Kaleidescape DVD rippers, early NAS storage & CD ripping media  'servers...   nightmares one and all for most 'domestic' users...     

ooops - double post.

 

I would add that that was all quite generalised - and we all know exceptions.  Youngsters (under 30 ish)  with a big TV and loads of DVD's - and oldies ( over 60ish) all Apple'd up and Netflixing away...    Regardless of these outlying folks, the trends are clear.

BeoGreg:

Until right now, I don't know nobody that doesn't have a big screen...

With the minimum of 55" hitting the market, this is definitely changing a bit and younger people aren't as fussed over the entire "cinematic experience" as we were. Not entirely convinced every person under 35 has a huge screen on their wall - everyone I know doesn't. How many do you know? :)

I think one of the main demographic shifts hitting the AV industry is the "kids" are living at home longer, marrying later, etc.  Even when they move out, they are renting longer (housing prices are pretty insane in the urban markets where "kids" prefer to live).  All this points to portability as a key requirement.  Then, once a habit is established, it continues (it's no so bad consuming AV on my phone/laptop vs finding friends/trucks to move a ton of AV equipment when the landlord raises the rent).  Net result, fancy AV is purchased later in life (when the house is finally secured, and kids put a damper on the "club life"), or not at all - when you've spent 10 years primarily consuming on a laptop or phone, a simple 40'' TV might be construed as a big upgrade or even unnecessary. 

I'm in my early 50s, and I didn't buy a big (tube) TV until I was confident I was not going to move for 5+ years (and had enough stuff that any move was going to involve professionals).  Granted, flat screens no longer weigh +100 lbs, but some are getting too big to easily fit in a compact car.  This was my early 30s (and most of my friends were behaving similarly).  Now, I'd say it's late 30s for most.  Although, with so many screens in homes now days (iPads, iPod, old phones), maybe the communal TV where the family gathers to watch a movie or favorite show is also a dying concept.  No more arguing about what to watch, I'll just be in the other room watching whatever I want - this started in my home when the kids were in their teens, but this is also about the same time that video content started working well on "devices".

So... as others have said, the market for "fancy AV" (like B&O) is definitely shrinking.  Will it disappear?  No.  B&O needs to figure out a "BeoPlay" concept for Video.

Exactly, it's not a binary thing.

Fewer big purchases suggests a smaller market, and I agree with the broad analysis, but not a disappearing market.

Bigger screens will likely always be required, perhaps less often, but still required.

The perhaps larger change is the disappearance of prominent audio systems, as here listening habits seem to have changed for many.

Stan:

So... as others have said, the market for "fancy AV" (like B&O) is definitely shrinking.  Will it disappear?  No.  B&O needs to figure out a "BeoPlay" concept for Video.

Agree - it will shrink, but not disappear.

Bang & Olufsen A/V isn't cheap, never was and isn't supposed to be.

Bang & Olufsen is a luxury brand!

As B&O Play was launched, they called it the new - more flexible - way of doing B&O.

It is not the cheaper version of Bang & Olufsen, these products are still luxury products.

Seems that they were right launching this new brand.

B&O Play products aren't supposed to be cheap - nevertheless they seem to sell well and they have become an important part of the company.

B&O Play products are just Bang & Olufsen products for a more 'moveable' and 'singularity living' generation.

Of course the sale of the B&O Play products could/would cannibalize the sales of the traditional Bang & Olufsen AV products...

....unless the total sales could be increased along the way.

The market for 'prominent audio systems' is long gone - Bang & Olufsen has already realized this (many 'B&O lovers' still haven't, it seems).

The likes of the new BeoSound 1 and 2 are examples new 'audio systems' (called Speaker Systems).

The BeoSound Moment is at least an attempt to create a 'new' sort of audio system.

After all we know, the BV Eclipse will (even more than the previous BV's) be new 'audio systems' too.

And yes - it might be wise to think about a 'BeoPlay concept for Video'.

However, this would be a difficult venture. We already saw one attempt: the BeoPlay A3 (some still in use!)

When it comes to small flexible, moveable displays/display technologies, things are moving really fast and big players like Apple are leading and ruling there.

Yes thing are changing rapidly in the world of 'AV' - imo B&O are quite well prepared in their product category/segment, the luxuary AV category.

B&O is a lifestyle brand - which makes the company somewhat different than most of the companies they mostly are compared with.

As B&O lovers we maybe should be more concerned with the question: is there a future for a 'lifestyle AV brand', than with the question of the future of AV in general.

MM

 

 

Yes the prominent audio system is pretty much gone I guess I agree. My question on the recent thread about new music systems was posed as much as a question than as a proposition. I.e. Is the seeming gap in their offering when it comes to music systems just reflective of the state of play.

If the answer was indeed yes, then (speaking personally) I'd love the Moment to be brought up to date (better screen, bit more flexibility etc)

But I'm with you in the sense that I don't think B&O are wildly out of step. Their main brand prices may be a trickier sell to some of their traditional core constituency, that seems to be the main sticking point to me, and while that may always have been the case, it might be hard to continue quite such a pricing structure in todays world.

That and poor execution have been the issues, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Not to be downplayed, but needn't be existential threats.

I agree with moxxey, kids now/ young adults want on the go viewing...my daughter would rather watch sky q on her iPhone , than on a 40-55 tv.

All her friends are exactly the same...no big screen concerns by any off them.

I am sure we would have done the same back then...

....only we had no 'small screens'.

We did other things instead - we certainly did not sit with our parents.

MM

yes, though they will grow up and live somewhere longer term. People won't live in houses without a big screen, though as has been rehearsed many times on this thread, the market probably isn't going to be quite as big as it once was,

Anyway, there have been any threads on the same issue, not sure if achieves great deal (despite my numerous posts!). We can all see / read how the world is changing around us, and of course it is, but its often not quite as binary as people project.

 

I think this speaks for itself, when it comes to future AV.

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-24171226/television-screens-have-doubled-in-size-in-last-10-years

The real question is, how big a bite of future AV will B&O be able to get hold on.

MM

 

 

I feel a bit contrarian on this thread as I don't see such a dramatic shift as others, it's just the objects have changed to reflect technology.

When I was under between 10 & 30, I had limited use for a TV. I did have a small 21" that I used sparingly in my 20's. I did own a cassette Walkman (later CD), a boom box that was battery powered, and small speakers that I could plug into my Walkman. Today, Walkman = iPhone (or digital device of your liking), headphones are now Bluetooth, and the boom box and speakers are more portable and Bluetooth.

When you are younger, no spouse, no kids - of course you want a personal experience. The handheld screens are an addition, but I don't see a fundamental shift in habits there. I didn't want to watch tv with my parents and younger people today are no different. I had headphones on.

Things change when you are settled - spouse, kids, home. You tend to want more shared time and you have the space for a TV. It's still a focal point in most people's houses. In fact, I can't think of any friends in my over 40 age bracket that don't have a large screen in their family room/ lounge. I don't see much change in those habits either. The way we get content has certainly changed, but we are still watching plenty of content on large screens.

The one shift I do think is noticeable is the blending / hidden nature of speakers. You don't see big wooden or black box speakers taking up valuable space. Most people like a single sound bar, smaller satellites, or hidden speakers in the ceiling. You also don't have stacks of equipment, but all-in-one solutions, like an AppleTV. I can't remember the last time I saw a large box surround receiver in someone's home, but 15-20 yrs ago, that was everywhere.

Its quite hard to get all the data about how global TV sales are growing or otherwise (size is but one issue)

From what i can see, there is a different picture in China (sales volumes growing) vs Western Europe and the US (sales volumes stagnant, shrinking a bit).

But these are by volume, so only tells part of the picture - anyway the volume figures are not dramatic thus far.

When it comes to revenue, it seems oversupply has compounded the "problem", and revenues from TV sales have been on a clearer downtrend....thats an issue i guess, especially for luxury premium brands.