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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hey experts - I have come across a Beogram 4002 for sale locally (Perth, Western Australia). A 4000 series beogram is high on my list of 'needs'. It is advertised at pretty ridiculous price (AU$400 = 325 euro = US$430) but being local has my interest. Seller advises it was working perfectly 8 yrs ago and has been in storage since. Also states a 'new stylus' (though he had not heard of soundsmith). The seller has no amp/speakers to test so will have to take my own.
2 questions:
Apart from dodgy microswitches what else should I be looking for with this model - does the motor seize in these?
Was thinking of taking my Beolit 700 to test (other suitable amps I have are obviously larger and have a couple of issues that may confuse testing the 4002). I think the orig DIN plug has been swapped with RCAs so could check both channels easily by plugging and unplugging to patch cable to the beolit. Is this a good or bad idea?
(at this stage I am at about 1/2 advertised sale price - even if working - so that might rule me out anyways)
Any advice much appreciated - never seen or heard a 4002 working so hit me with everything!
Cheers.
Ben
Hello Ben,
The Beogram 4002 does have a few age-related issues, such as: instability in speed (faulty trimmers), arm not lowering despite the familiar release click (seized air cylinder/lowering mechanism) and arm not sensing the record (blown lamp, michoswitches are dirty, capacitor failure) being the most common.
They are fairly reliable when working, and functions are done in a very smooth manner. You should just test speed stability, arm lowering, record sensing and the cartridge. B&O stopped making cartridges for the Beogram 4000-series in the 1990's, the last discontinued was the MMC20S. IMO, it doesn't matter that much as long as it sounds good to you. Some may not like the sound of an aging B&O cartridge, but I quite like it. To test it, the Beolit 700 would be fine, just turn all the way down when changing plugs. It's a shame that the original DIN plug had been replaced, it's a part of the B&O experience.
Compared to Danish market prices, it is a very expensive 4002, but it would be fine if it is in good condition (they fetch for about that amount on the big auction site I think).
It's a great turntable which is generally considered the epitome of B&O design and function, being the successor to the legendary Beogram 4000 which woud sound very similar to the 4002.
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Thanks Søren,
Although the price is pretty high - I might have to go have a look (3 hr round trip). Will be pretty wary of any issues it has however, not much local repair expertise in Perth - so will probably be on my own fixing any problems.
Thanks again for the advice
So lets get this straight - top price for a deck that has not been used for 8 years, has had the DIN plug taken off and has not been seen to play. Sounds very expensive to me!! There are quite a few of these round - I would look at a known good one rather than a dubious one. I would say that I would expect to pay less than half given the description. The only real problem with these decks is that they don't travel well - therefore a local one you can see is an advantage. However don't pay over the odds.
These are complex decks and are not that straightforward to repair. If you really want one, I would get the best you can and one that has been properly restored. I would buy from a reseller who will make sure it works and offer a warranty. They will also make sure it is properly packaged when it is sent.
Peter
Yep - you have it straight Peter - top price. Perth is the end of the earth and I have not seen one of these locally in yrs...so hence my interest. But I agree 1/2 the advertised price is where I am at. Probably a few of these on the east coast of Australia but that still means I gotta get someone to pack and ship 4000km. I get sad when beograms arrive in bits...beomasters and beovox's I am happy to buy and ship.
I am going to try to have a look/listen to it tomorrow.
Luckily there is also not a big market in Perth...gives me a shot.
I agree: my own white 4002 was in top condition (not working either), chopped DIN as well, paid €50.
Jacques
I agree, around £50 would be the right price especially as the stylus is doubtful.
I have just sent a 4002 to Australia for the first time. I have sent to the UK and Europe with no problems but this is my first long haul shipment of a 4000 series.
I am waiting to hear the outcome..........
Regards Graham
I sent a 4002 to Craig - I confess to have used a huge amount of packaging just to make sure, but it arrived fine. I am sure Graham's deck will also be fine. I have on the other hand received a 4000 is many pieces - it is all down to the packing!
Peter: I sent a 4002 to Craig - I confess to have used a huge amount of packaging just to make sure, but it arrived fine. I am sure Graham's deck will also be fine. I have on the other hand received a 4000 is many pieces - it is all down to the packing!
The heavy 4000 platter would also be a factor, along with a higher component count could make it more likely to break during transport unless it has been prepared and packed carefully
I spent years tracking these down and fixing them, its a big risk which rarely pays off. I'll may have one for sale soon, its working and fully restored but the effort to get it that way was far in excess of the price I originally paid. Hence why I have been sitting on it for 5 years.
In short, if its working great then consider the cosmetics. If the unit is in poor condition its too hard to restore in Aus.
beoaus
Thanks beoaus - price is obviously dependent on the market and I have been keeping my eye out for a local beogram 4000 series for a long time - so fair to say the limited supply means they are going to cost more here then in Europe. Your point about availability and ease of restoration is well taken.
Any tips of what to look for from your resto? or should I just check everything works?? if not - walk away?? (is what I'm hearing)
Thanks all for your help - wasn't able to visit the 4002 today - maybe tomorrow?
B
joeyboygolf: I agree, around £50 would be the right price especially as the stylus is doubtful. I have just sent a 4002 to Australia for the first time. I have sent to the UK and Europe with no problems but this is my first long haul shipment. I am waiting to hear the outcome..........
I have just sent a 4002 to Australia for the first time. I have sent to the UK and Europe with no problems but this is my first long haul shipment.
Knowing how you pack things Graham I have no doubt it will arrive in as good a condition as you sent the thing! It tires me out unwrapping some of the bits you have sent me in the past lol!
Olly
The real thing to look for in these decks is tiring motors and bearings IMO. All other issues are fairly easily fixed but a perforated thrust pad in the main bearing is not and will impede performance! Test this by looking but also remove the belt spin to 33 1/3 the light platters should spin for around 40 seconds the heavier platters more like 2 minutes!
**Edit** it has been discussed that the perforations might actually be by design, and not due to wear like I originally thought. There are decks with and without a hole in the thrust pad, some with a very sharp bearing spindle and others with quite a flat pointed spindle, there seem to be no hard and fast rules! It may be that the examples without a hole all had two sintered bearings to stabilise. Seems there are many shaft types too. As far as I am concerned the servo issue below still stands and is correct!
Also the servo motors are getting tired now. The bearings can usually be rejuvenated (if caught in time) by removing old traces of oil and 'heating' in new oil but the brushes are another matter!
So in short ideally the servo motors should be almost silent but a certain amount of noise is to be expected especially with the plastic bodied motors. The main motor should be absolutely silent too!
I have also had a couple of decks that had a strange issue with the suspension (i.e. not able to setup entirely to service manual specs) but that is another story lol!
i agree with everyone else the price for this deck is waaaay overpriced I am afraid so I wouldn't waist the journey!
Arrived safe and sound..........it's the way I pack em!!!!
joeyboygolf: joeyboygolf: I agree, around £50 would be the right price especially as the stylus is doubtful. I have just sent a 4002 to Australia for the first time. I have sent to the UK and Europe with no problems but this is my first long haul shipment. I am waiting to hear the outcome.......... Arrived safe and sound..........it's the way I pack em!!!!
Glad to hear it, but not surprised :)
Step1: The real thing to look for in these decks is tiring motors and bearings IMO. All other issues are fairly easily fixed but a perforated thrust pad in the main bearing is not and will impede performance!
The real thing to look for in these decks is tiring motors and bearings IMO. All other issues are fairly easily fixed but a perforated thrust pad in the main bearing is not and will impede performance!
I thought the thrust pads were perforated by design!
You see, there is just one sintered brass bearing at the top with nothing else to guide the spindle at the bottom.
The way it is worn here shows that the hole in the thrust pad was there when new!
Hmm I know what you mean Jacques but why do you see decks with a hole and others without? Also, what happens to lubricant that sits at the bottom...?
I just can't help feeling that there should NOT be a hole at the bottom of the thrust bearing it wouldn't make sense to put one there! An indentation yes, but a perforation?
Also I have noted the platters do not spin as freely with a perforated disk, which of course would make sense as there is more surface area in contact with the shaft!
Btw there seem to be a few shaft designs!
Anyway, I guess the man to ask is Martin! Where are you Martin?
Oh and I swear there are decks with two sintered bearings anyway I will have to start keeping notes I think!
Step1: Also I have noted the platters do not spin as freely with a perforated disk, which of course would make sense as there is more surface area in contact with the shaft!
That's why I have used a Teflon bit to partially fill the hole. I had a conversation about this with Martin, and he's not so sure either. My 4002 and 4000 certainly have holes. My BG 8000 has one too, but the spindle has a pin-sharp end.
Also, the thrust pad is not cracked, and the spindle rests on it, never reaching the bottom.
(one missing in the new set)
You know Jacques you could be correct. I have just looked back in Picasa and found pictures that I forgot I took lol! Seems that where there is no hole, there are two sintered bearings, and in all honesty where there is a hole it does kind of look like it was intentional and not drilled or otherwise created by wear, so maybe I need to retract that bit of advice!
I will upload a couple of pics later...
We could do with a forum wide survey maybe??
chartz: Step1: Also I have noted the platters do not spin as freely with a perforated disk, which of course would make sense as there is more surface area in contact with the shaft! That's why I have used a Teflon bit to partially fill the hole. I had a conversation about this with Martin, and he's not so sure either. My 4002 and 4000 certainly have holes. My BG 8000 has one too, but the spindle has a pin-sharp end. Also, the thrust pad is not cracked, and the spindle rests on it, never reaching the bottom. (one missing in the new set)
Step1: We could do with a forum wide survey maybe??
Yes, good idea!
Like: who's got a (late) 4000/4002/4004/6000 and could have a look at their thrust pad.