ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi all,
As my home will be renovated in 2 months, I am considering changing my audio system.
At the same time I want to move away from surround to stereo, as I rarely watch any content that benefits from surround anymore.
Current equipment:
All sources are connected to the receiver via HDMI, where the receiver acts as a switch and one HDMI runs to the TV. Harmony controls everything.
Speakers considered:
I ultimately want to be able to:
I see two routes (though please chime in)
I am very much open to any practical advise and/or considerations you might want to share.
Thanks!
If you could get a nicely priced used pair of BL5s it will far surpass any of the speakers you mentioned. But if you were happy with the BL18s, I would recommend adding a BL19 and you will have a very nice sounding system as the BL18s are still lacking in the bottom frequencies. As for the others, the BL8000 is quite different than the BL18 (much weaker) and would not recommend it. The BL20 was much more powerful than the BL18, but I also had problems with the store environment to have a more critical view. As for the BL9, I just cannot remember the sound but many people on here have experience with it.
I have BL1s/BL19 combo and the sound surpasses the BL18/BL19 and the BL20 in terms of clarity and balance for the type of music that I mostly listen to - classical, jazz and 60s rock on vinyl, CD and hires streaming, as well as a great match with the BV11-55. The new speakers are more bass heavy in my opinion, so good for more contemporary music and TV.
BV11-55, BS9000, BL1, BL19, Transmitter 1, Beo4, Beocom 6000, BeoTalk1 200, Sennheiser HD600, McIntosh MHA100
Well I have a similar situation, a non-B&O LG OLED and B&O speakers.
Keep the Harmony (I have one).
Regarding choice, that's very subjective but I've owned BL8000 & BL2 before and now have BL9s. There's no comparison, BL9 are far superior. Now I've also considered during "upgrade" phase between BL18s and BL20s. Personally I hated the BL18s sound and the BL20s were nice, very nice. Though I didn't go for them as I didn't particularly like their look and WISA is not needed for me. BL9s are similar sort of sound. But if you like the 18s sound and look go for it.
Now you're problem is getting a DAC/preamp with volume control. I went with a S8 connection hub and using optical plus the controls are traditional IR rather than BT wheely. Then I connected a Appletv3 via its optical out to the second port on S8 hub.
Thanks for your valuable thoughts, much appreciated.
As for the BL5s, these run about €9k for a set used, which is rather steep. I also don't think I can justify spending this much on speakers given me current listening (not that frequent).
I in fact also listened to the BL18 plus BL19, which indeed was a nice addition (though not 'needed' I would say). As I wanted to get rid of a sub, this wouldnt be my preferred route (in terms of styling).
I'm beginning to think more the BL20 didnt really came alive in the store, given their setup.
With the S8 hub you are referring to (is that the same as a Beosound Core? This was recomended in store), would I still need a streamer (e.g. Sonos) to play music? If I remember correctly I believe the Core can also stream music. The Core's connections seem limited, would that suffice?
If you heretofore liked the overall sound quality of your KEFs, I see little reason to buy BL18's, and *definitely* not BL8000's. Except for looks... Since you have the A/V amp, an upgrade to 5 identical KEF LS50's (the regular speakers, not the LS50W powered ones) and 1 or 2 KEF Kube-1 or Kube-2's will give you better sound than all but the BL5's in my opinion, and it will sound "like what you're used to only better." The only reason I can see to go with B&O speakers, other than beauty, is if you have an awkward room layout where the acoustic lens can make up for problems finding a sweet spot. But if you have a typical layout and enough room to pull the LS50's away from both the front and side walls, on stands, you'll be better served I think. As to price, that's an issue at USD1500 per pair, but they have a "typical" sale often for $1300, and I bought a pair at the end of the year when they were priced at $1000 (Amazon, and KEF Direct, AND dealers). (One of the Kube's was $550 down 25% at that time I think, but I'm a cheapskate and also wanted a white sub, so I got a different brand.) At that price you're looking at 1000+1000+650 (they charged higher to buy a single) + 550 = 3200 plus whatever you spend on 5 stands (absolutely essential). At "typical sale" prices, more like USD4000. They'll be new, sound excellent, and although not BeoBeautiful they *will* be striking-looking! Truly if you have gone to the trouble of auditioning various B&O speakers it is worth your trouble to audition the LS50's, "the most highly-regarded and well-reviewed mini monitors of the past decade." (Some people say it's unjustified praise but those kind of people would make raspberries at the way BL18's sound.)
As regards the S8 hub, the reason @davidr suggested it is that it learns IR input for TV volume control and translates that to the PowerLink speaker cable plugged into it. I have never used it with non-S8 speakers, but if he's done it, that's good enough. The one thing you will have to do is turn on your LG's RF-to-IR echo. (As you know, your LG OLED remote is RF, so normally there would be nothing for the S8 to see.) This is the same procedure that you would use for a Sonos PlayBase installation, which makes it easy to find instructions on the internet. Or maybe you have already done this since you have a Harmony, which is IR-only. [[Edit: Oops, nevermind the LG convert-to-IR instruction; I forgot you were using your A/V Receiver as the hub distributing the sound; the S8 will see the IR commands for that volume control just fine. But you *could* push the sound control down the chain if you wanted to, which might be handy if you ever started using LG's in-TV applications.]]
Similarly, with your Sonos Connect you use arguably the best music library selection app available, and with Spotify Connect if you're using their app you're golden. I wouldn't trade that for any BeoApp and the Core. If you think the sound quality is lacking, which I doubt given the rest of the system, you could switch to a BlueSound Node 2 instead of the Sonos, and Tidal instead of Spotify. But I would stay right where you are.
Haubjes: With the S8 hub you are referring to (is that the same as a Beosound Core? This was recomended in store), would I still need a streamer (e.g. Sonos) to play music? If I remember correctly I believe the Core can also stream music. The Core's connections seem limited, would that suffice?
The Core and S8 hub are completely different. The S8 is more of a basic DAC / preamp which happens to have PL jacks. Yes they're right that the Core has built in streaming / wifi and App control that the S8 lacks. However only one physical input, optical or otherwise. It might be perfect for you.. though the volume control & navigation for the tele will not be controllable with one remote.
Yes the powerlink outputs on S8 hub and Core are compatible with pretty much every PL B&O loudspeaker.
As an alternative check out something like Yamaha WXC-50, with the proper adapter cables it's a much more featured and flexible Beosound Core. By the way you don't absolutely require a B&O unit to drive their loudspeakers. With proper cabling almost every product has a analogue line level input so you can even use A/V type receiver. Of course you'd be missing the point of a "complete system" where you don't have to 'think'.
trackbeo:Similarly, with your Sonos Connect you use arguably the best music library selection app available, and with Spotify Connect if you're using their app you're golden. I wouldn't trade that for any BeoApp and the Core.
Since sound and looks are such a subjective thing, I'll put my two cents in and agree with all of trackbeo's suggestions, especially the one noted above. If you're used to Sonos Connect, then you're going to be extremely disappointed with B&O's offerings in the way of actually accessing your music. Personally, I think converting to an all B&O setup might be more trouble than it is worth considering you're pretty satisfied with your current setup.
If your main goal is a tidy looking setup, and you're already renovating your house, how about planning for an in wall cubby or or converting a nearby closet that will house all of your electronic "boxes" so that the wires are hidden, and all you see are the Front L and R speakers and your pretty nice LG OLED. You'd save yourself a ton of money that you might be able to put back into more renovations on the house.
That being said, if you have money that's burning a hole in your pocket and you must have B&O, then yes, go for speakers rather than any hub or brains. A used set of Beolab 9's are likely a great value for money at this time and don't take up much space, and have the acoustic lens to boot. Furthermore, you don't need a sub.
trackbeo: If you heretofore liked the overall sound quality of your KEFs, I see little reason to buy BL18's, and *definitely* not BL8000's. Except for looks... Since you have the A/V amp, an upgrade to 5 identical KEF LS50's (the regular speakers, not the LS50W powered ones) and 1 or 2 KEF Kube-1 or Kube-2's will give you better sound than all but the BL5's in my opinion, and it will sound "like what you're used to only better." The only reason I can see to go with B&O speakers, other than beauty, is if you have an awkward room layout where the acoustic lens can make up for problems finding a sweet spot. But if you have a typical layout and enough room to pull the LS50's away from both the front and side walls, on stands, you'll be better served I think. As to price, that's an issue at USD1500 per pair, but they have a "typical" sale often for $1300, and I bought a pair at the end of the year when they were priced at $1000 (Amazon, and KEF Direct, AND dealers). (One of the Kube's was $550 down 25% at that time I think, but I'm a cheapskate and also wanted a white sub, so I got a different brand.) At that price you're looking at 1000+1000+650 (they charged higher to buy a single) + 550 = 3200 plus whatever you spend on 5 stands (absolutely essential). At "typical sale" prices, more like USD4000. They'll be new, sound excellent, and although not BeoBeautiful they *will* be striking-looking! Truly if you have gone to the trouble of auditioning various B&O speakers it is worth your trouble to audition the LS50's, "the most highly-regarded and well-reviewed mini monitors of the past decade." (Some people say it's unjustified praise but those kind of people would make raspberries at the way BL18's sound.) As regards the S8 hub, the reason @davidr suggested it is that it learns IR input for TV volume control and translates that to the PowerLink speaker cable plugged into it. I have never used it with non-S8 speakers, but if he's done it, that's good enough. The one thing you will have to do is turn on your LG's RF-to-IR echo. (As you know, your LG OLED remote is RF, so normally there would be nothing for the S8 to see.) This is the same procedure that you would use for a Sonos PlayBase installation, which makes it easy to find instructions on the internet. Or maybe you have already done this since you have a Harmony, which is IR-only. [[Edit: Oops, nevermind the LG convert-to-IR instruction; I forgot you were using your A/V Receiver as the hub distributing the sound; the S8 will see the IR commands for that volume control just fine. But you *could* push the sound control down the chain if you wanted to, which might be handy if you ever started using LG's in-TV applications.]] Similarly, with your Sonos Connect you use arguably the best music library selection app available, and with Spotify Connect if you're using their app you're golden. I wouldn't trade that for any BeoApp and the Core. If you think the sound quality is lacking, which I doubt given the rest of the system, you could switch to a BlueSound Node 2 instead of the Sonos, and Tidal instead of Spotify. But I would stay right where you are.
Thanks for this, much appreciated. I also like the broader advice to look beyond B&O.
I in fact like the KEF sound, though not hooked or sold on it indefinitely. Also, if I buy new equipment I aim to move away from 5.1 to stereo. Ideally without sub, though would consider a 2.1 system. I will look into the suggested KEF LS50 speakers, thanks for that.
Would these best be served playing on a dedicated stereo amp, plus a sub wired in?If possible, wouldnt mind getting rid of the chunky 5.1 receiver. Aestethics-wise, a pair of these on stands + sub would score less points than a set of wall-mounted BL18 I presume.
davidr: Haubjes: With the S8 hub you are referring to (is that the same as a Beosound Core? This was recomended in store), would I still need a streamer (e.g. Sonos) to play music? If I remember correctly I believe the Core can also stream music. The Core's connections seem limited, would that suffice? The Core and S8 hub are completely different. The S8 is more of a basic DAC / preamp which happens to have PL jacks. Yes they're right that the Core has built in streaming / wifi and App control that the S8 lacks. However only one physical input, optical or otherwise. It might be perfect for you.. though the volume control & navigation for the tele will not be controllable with one remote. Yes the powerlink outputs on S8 hub and Core are compatible with pretty much every PL B&O loudspeaker. As an alternative check out something like Yamaha WXC-50, with the proper adapter cables it's a much more featured and flexible Beosound Core. By the way you don't absolutely require a B&O unit to drive their loudspeakers. With proper cabling almost every product has a analogue line level input so you can even use A/V type receiver. Of course you'd be missing the point of a "complete system" where you don't have to 'think'.
I would ideally stay with 1 remote for everything. If the Core cant do that (also not with a dedicated B&O remote?) then that doesnt sound like the best way forward.
I have looked at the Yamaha amp. Am I right in thinking that with this amp, I can get rid of the Sonos Connect?
Sal: trackbeo:Similarly, with your Sonos Connect you use arguably the best music library selection app available, and with Spotify Connect if you're using their app you're golden. I wouldn't trade that for any BeoApp and the Core. Since sound and looks are such a subjective thing, I'll put my two cents in and agree with all of trackbeo's suggestions, especially the one noted above. If you're used to Sonos Connect, then you're going to be extremely disappointed with B&O's offerings in the way of actually accessing your music. Personally, I think converting to an all B&O setup might be more trouble than it is worth considering you're pretty satisfied with your current setup. If your main goal is a tidy looking setup, and you're already renovating your house, how about planning for an in wall cubby or or converting a nearby closet that will house all of your electronic "boxes" so that the wires are hidden, and all you see are the Front L and R speakers and your pretty nice LG OLED. You'd save yourself a ton of money that you might be able to put back into more renovations on the house. That being said, if you have money that's burning a hole in your pocket and you must have B&O, then yes, go for speakers rather than any hub or brains. A used set of Beolab 9's are likely a great value for money at this time and don't take up much space, and have the acoustic lens to boot. Furthermore, you don't need a sub.
Sounds more and more like an 'all B&O" setup (minus TV) won't be ideal.
Still, the option of getting a set of BL18, BL9 and then hooking that up to a suitable amp/piece of kit is something I want to explore further.
How about an amp that has a Bluesound module internally? WOuld that replace the Connect and the receiver at once? And then hook up a set of BL to the pre-outs? I have briefly browsed, but most amps I see always have a 'regular' amp internally, which allows for passive speakers. That is not required if you use BL, right? Other than the Yamaha, any more examples that can do this (and have been used successfully be you guys)?
Guys, I've given this some more thought and did some more research.
I've kind of ditched the idea of getting the Shape, as it would in any case need to be run by the Core, which has diverging reviews.
I am now considering getting a pair of BL9, BL18 or BL5. Then ook those up to a stereo pre-amp (rather than surround, which I won't need). Maybe a pre-amp that already has streaming built in?
Some questions:
Are BL5 indivually controlled via IR? If so, can the Logitech Harmony control this (I've read mixed experiences);
Do the speakers always hiss when hooked up to a non-B&O source? If not, how to avoid this (in terms of connecting);
Would the BL5 be overkill in my living room? The room is some 55 m2, though is U-shaped and the listening area is only approx 5.5m by 4m.
Your thoughts and input are much appreciated.
More personal opinion... Free advice, worth every penny!
You said above that in addition to going to 2-channel, you'd also prefer to go 2.0 instead of 2.1, i.e. no subwoofer. So:
1) Irrelevant since you're leaning to B&O powered speakers now, but note: My KEF LS50 recommendation absolutely required a subwoofer. Even put the sub someplace that isn't the perfect location if you must hide it, but don't choose the LS50s without one. Therefore, in such a case I also wouldn't ditch your AV receiver unless you have a replacement integrated amp with a subwoofer output. It's becoming more common (e.g. NAD D3020 v2) but not universal especially in high-end gear, whereas *any* AV receiver always has a sub output.
2) Right, since you're aiming at B&O: If you can afford them, the BeoLab 5s are soooo much better than the BeoLab 18s that you won't regret it. (Also avoids needing the BeoLab 19, see above.) If there's a dealer near you with both on display (BL5 is discontinued now?), you owe it to yourself to A/B listen to them -- the difference is not subtle! I think either will work fine in 55 m.sq. and the BL5 will not be overkill; they are voiced just fine for low and moderate volumes. However I feel both speakers need a minimum distance away from the walls, which may be a problem in your U-shaped 55 sq.m, but that requirement is more important (IMO) for the BL5 than the BL18, which some people mount right on the wall and seem to like. That extra space requirement may make your choice for you.
Don't forget to photograph your setup and post it in the "Flash" thread when you're done!
I've auditioned the BL5 and BL18 in an A-B test. Difference was really huge.
The BL5 were hooked to a Moment, which didn't convince me in the least bit in terms of functionality. Later on, used the aux in of a Beosystem 3200.
Now, I am considering getting a set of BL5 after hearing them, though ideally without any B&O gear in between.
Let's say the requirements are:
Basic stereo setup;
Streaming through Sonos or Bluesound or similar (not B&O, didn't find the Moment very intuitive);
Play sound from LG OLED tv;
Controllable through 1 remote (ideally Logitech Harmony as it also has an app).
During the audition I've learned that a B&O source can readily control BL5's volume. Is there any way to achieve the above without putting a B&O source in between? I'd like to have as few boxes as possible.