ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
So I have a beovision Avant NG that I bought 9 months ago with a motorized wall bracket. I paid almost $15000 USD for this TV.
I am trying to install some applications from the store and ironically the version of Android is too old on the TV ?
After some research, it looks like my TV has an Android TV version of 5.x.. Seriously? I mean seriously ?
Of course I can buy an Android box for 50 bucks but my 3 years old Sony TV has Android TV 7.1 and it runs perfectly fine.
The 5.x Android Tv version is based on Linux kernel 3.16.1 that was released 4 years ago. In other words, 2 years before the TV came out.
I understand that B&O is now focusing on new products but it's unacceptable that customers who spent a fortune on products near EOL are left in the cold.
If that's the case, then Microsoft should have abandoned all Windows 7 users when the 8 was out.
When I pay a premium price, I expect an outstanding support and experience. Certainly not the case with B&O.
If the R&D at B&O can't/doesn't have the skills to make an up-to-date software and aren't competitve enough, then outsource it. Even chineese TVs (no offence to anyone) get frequent firmware update with latest OS and features.
Unless; Unless the hardware is too old to run anything decent, which puts a lot of question marks.
It's B&O attitude towards their customers that's making me lose respect for the brand.
IA64: It's B&O attitude towards their customers that's making me lose respect for the brand.
I haven't bought a B&O TV for ages. Still using my BV12-65 (with connected devices such as an Apple TV) and BV11-40. The last time I considered a B&O TV, walked in my local dealer (who has since closed) and asked them about moving up from the BV11 to a BV14, primarily as I loved the brass frame, wooden fret and the improved design. It's a more modern TV, too.
Dealer said: "don't do it, just don't. Trust me on this, keep the BV11. We'd love to take your money, but the newer sets are causing us all kinds of grief".
Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Avant NG. Unacceptable!... but, but you should have been made aware that nowadays people don't buy B&O products to get the greatest picture and sound experience... but because it has the B&O logo shown on it. It is foolish to buy B&O products to get sound and picture premium experience. Just look at all the negative threads in this forum (yes, I know, happy people are less likely to share their "good" experience, but still, does any other brand in this field get such negative opinions/rating?)
Sometimes, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just buy the best rated sound/picture product and glue the B&O logo on the front panel....
Griebel: Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Avant NG. Unacceptable!... but, but you should have been made aware that nowadays people don't buy B&O products to get the greatest picture and sound experience... but because it has the B&O logo shown on it. It is foolish to buy B&O products to get sound and picture premium experience. Just look at all the negative threads in this forum (yes, I know, happy people are less likely to share their "good" experience, but still, does any other brand in this field get such negative opinions/rating?) Sometimes, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just buy the best rated sound/picture product and glue the B&O logo on the front panel....
That's a very weird analogy. It's like saying, " I know I've been scammed but you know it's a B&O "
There's no point in paying a premium price for a brand that doesn't give you something in return other than " logo" because the brand will die eventually.
People don't spend a fotrune on Rolls Royce because of the brand. It's the quality and luxury that labels the brand not the other way around.
In the end, I don't photoshoot every day and certainly not in a living room next to a "TV".
Very sad indeed. I ask the dealer about it and he's like " it's not me, try reaching B&O and see if there's any firmware update soon. But you know, you can upgrade for the eclipse if you want"
No I don't want, never. B&O doesn't realize that the niche market they are targeting is very small. If you happen to find someone willing to pay 30 grand for a TV, make sure you shower him with gift cards and invitations whatsoever.
I seriously doubt anyone from management at B&O checks the threads here but they better do. Eventually someone will file a lawsuit against them one day.
There's an old saying: Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
Goodbye.
Griebel: Sometimes, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just buy the best rated sound/picture product and glue the B&O logo on the front panel....
B&O beat you to that idea already...
Lee
The BV11 runs on Opera OS as far as I am aware. Very stable. However, the only significant update that I can recall was the addition of N radio last year. As a smart TV it is pretty dumb, and you finish up using an Apple TV / iPad for sending catch-up TV services from the likes of ITV and Ch 4 in the U.K. I am not sure whether that is because B&O never got round to extending the licences beyond BBC iPlayer in the U.K., or whether it's the lack of flash player in the OS.
Graham
IA64: I seriously doubt anyone from management at B&O checks the threads here but they better do...
I seriously doubt anyone from management at B&O checks the threads here but they better do...
I don't think anyone high up really cares enough now, if I'm perfectly honest. It appears to have gone too far, and even the panic stations have been abandoned... The Dealers are the ones who always take the brunt of poor decisions from the top, and they're all fighting as hard as they can for themselves as well as the loyal customers they have left.
As the "B&O Play" name gets dropped, and the Play products carry the proper "Bang & Olufsen" logo going forward, we'll see a transition to almost all products being sold on pallets to whoever wants them.
If a member of Management is reading this, and wants to fly me out to Struer to do an interview which will give a frank and honest account of where the company is going - I'm available at short notice! The longer the complete silence in response to our concerns, the more worrying it gets... Potential B&O buyers aren't totally stupid - they research on the internet first... And which site usually pops up first when it comes to discussions about B&O products?
B&O used to be in contact with me fairly regularly, but now... nothing for over a year (fifteen months to be precise), and with seemingly nothing on the horizon as far as new products I don't envisage an email landing in my Inbox any time soon. :(
No new products this year??
unbelievable!
I have sympathy - i was an early buyer of the Android BV14.
I would ask one question though (if you forgive me) - were you not aware (9 months ago) of the problems of the Android BV's?
They were well aired on the forum, and the lack of upgrades from the out of the box Android was always likely, especially when they'd moved on to webOS anyway.
I switched to an Avant (pre-Android) - much better. Many have a smart box (Apple TV or similar) anyway, so who cares about the original Avant is dumb.
Sandyb: I would ask one question though (if you forgive me) - were you not aware (9 months ago) of the problems of the Android BV's?
Hi there, no I was not. The last place someone would want to read unbiased reviews about the product is on the forum of the manufacturer itself.
The Avant 2014 feedback was positive and the only thing people were nagging about was the hevc support.
It seemed to me that B&O listened and included the HEVC with a smart platform app. People were very excited about it. Thats all I know.
There is no review of the NG online as far as I know. I'd be happy if you can link me.
There is no detailed information about the processing power of the TV ( what kind of CPU is driving the OS etc.. )
I didnt mean reviews as such - but this forum was full of issues and complaints with the 14 / Horizon, and they share the same software platform with the Avant NG.
This forum is not a B&O manufacturer owned forum - while we can take with a pinch of salt some of what is written here, the message was fairly clear from 14 / Horizon owners. I gave my Android BV14 after 7-9 months, cant remember exactly when.
Maybe. But it's worth mentioning that it's my first B&O ever. I wasn't familiar with the brand ( my parents had B&O speakers and they were great)
In other words, I wasn't even registered on the forum when I placed my order. lesson learned.
But then again, it's like buying a Ferrari just to realize that it goes into limp mode everytime you shift between gears.
Bottom line: I company charging that much for their products should have a minimum of self respect to not release unfinished / beta products. Even worse, there is NO FREAKING STABLE RELEASE AND THEY QUIT.
Yes, you have my sympathy.
I'd swap it for a first generation Avant - its not a smart TV, but that's not a deal breaker (to me).
And the software platform (multi room functionality, interlinking with other B&O products) is pretty flawless.
I've always had my doubts about these "smart TVs", so I just stuck to my ancient BeoVison 7-55 and stuck another ancient Mac Mini on the back of it. I have a wireless Apple keyboard and trackpad on my coffee table and would never want anything newer to replace this old, but marvelous setup.
BeoLab 5, BeoVision 7-55 MK2, BeoSound 5 Encore, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab Penta III, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2, BeoLab 7-6, BeoSound 8, BeoTime (analog clock), Beo 4 remote.
There are plenty of arguments (in theory at least!) in favour of smart TVs - the problem is that for most of the last 4/5 years when they have been around, the execution is poor, and app / service availability is not reliable - as are some expectation of future software updates.
Much easier to just use an Apple TV / Fire TV / Nvidia etc as a low cost but better smart platform.
LG's webOS is the only one that is generally well liked.
Android TV is a car crash.
The thing that gets me is how B&O's management can actually think they are a "premium" brand while leaving a trail of poorly designed devices that have not been updated, with errors and performance issues, and abandoned consumers. They have littered their recent offerings with such problems and seem to be arrogant enough to think their customers will keep coming back for more of the same.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
You write "Hi there, no I was not. The last place someone would want to read unbiased reviews about the product is on the forum of the manufacturer itself."
i hope you're not referring to this as the forum of the manufacturer itself?
The company has used social media and attracted enough negative feedback but here there is a diminishing collection of devotees.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
Jeff: The thing that gets me is how B&O's management can actually think they are a "premium" brand while...
The thing that gets me is how B&O's management can actually think they are a "premium" brand while...
Realistically, do we know what they are thinking? Like Lee says above, no-one is getting much information from them on fututre direction or product launches. It's highly likely they are working on some important future directional changes we don't know about, which might also explain the lack of new products.
I come on here daily now expecting the worst, a huge company announcement or similar. Not that B&O has folded, but that they are bringing Bang & Olufsen and BeoPlay together and selling standalone products online and that the dealers are no longer their primary concern. Or they are consolidating the brand and selling it to another company. I can really see this happening. Are dealers really necessary? Do people really walk in the stores for product demonstrations in enough numbers? I doubt it.
Hungedu: I've always had my doubts about these "smart TVs", so I just stuck to my ancient BeoVison 7-55 and stuck another ancient Mac Mini on the back of it. I have a wireless Apple keyboard and trackpad on my coffee table and would never want anything newer to replace this old, but marvelous setup.
Not that it really contributes to the topic, but I do resonate with the "old tv with external smart device" method.
If I didn't experience a huge move recently, I would be sitting in my old apartment watching a BV9 with an original BoxeeBox plugged in. I was operating that BoxeeBox since the day it was released in 2010 until Christmas of last year.
Due to room limitations, I now have a Mk1 BV10-40 with a 4th gen ATV connected to it and I'm driving everything with a Beo4. It just works.
PSA: I found a 7-55 for sale locally for 4900EUR including the low motorstand the inccorect BL7-4 fitted and a Beo4.
Beo4 'til I die!
moxxey: IA64:It's B&O attitude towards their customers that's making me lose respect for the brand. I haven't bought a B&O TV for ages. Still using my BV12-65 (with connected devices such as an Apple TV) and BV11-40. The last time I considered a B&O TV, walked in my local dealer (who has since closed) and asked them about moving up from the BV11 to a BV14, primarily as I loved the brass frame, wooden fret and the improved design. It's a more modern TV, too.Dealer said: "don't do it, just don't. Trust me on this, keep the BV11. We'd love to take your money, but the newer sets are causing us all kinds of grief".
IA64:It's B&O attitude towards their customers that's making me lose respect for the brand.
That's an Android TV OS issue, not a B&O specific issue.
Though they're at fault for having chosen Android TV as the OS - a spectacularly bad decision.
Reviewers grumble about similar scenarios when they have Sony TV's in for review.
I had a BV14 from launch for 9 months - swapped for a pre-Android Avant, and very happy with it.
Sandyb: That's an Android TV OS issue, not a B&O specific issue. Though they're at fault for having chosen Android TV as the OS - a spectacularly bad decision. Reviewers grumble about similar scenarios when they have Sony TV's in for review. I had a BV14 from launch for 9 months - swapped for a pre-Android Avant, and very happy with it.
No, just NO. I have to disagree with you on this one.
Google is doing a great continuously updating their OS. It's reatively a new operating system dating only from 2014. It's B&O job to follow up and release bug fixes and firmware updates.
Android has nothing to do with what we are experiencing on our TV. It was already addressed and fixed in later releases.
Btw, I'm on Sony forum since quite some time and I can tell you that Sony immediately releases new updates once ready. I had issues on my Bravia but not anymore. Os version 7.1 is damn stable.
And if anyone is kind enough to tell me what's inside the Avant NG ? ( CPU / RAM etc ? )
Hi, I have a FG Avant, placed the order the first week after release as my LX 5500 just broke down for good. Very happy with it, even if the “smart” function is crap.
When I aimed for a second TV I almost got the the BV14. Easel stand and wooden front is amazing! But hesitated after all the negative feedback here. It ended up with a 65 inch Samsung The Frame instead. My first non B&O for 25 years. The Eclipse was really never an option, when it came down the price tag.
Daniel: When I aimed for a second TV I almost got the the BV14. Easel stand and wooden front is amazing!
When I aimed for a second TV I almost got the the BV14. Easel stand and wooden front is amazing!
Totally agree - one of the best looking TVs I've ever seen. But, the other reason I didn't go for the BV14 was that even the ex-demo policy had changed. My dealer (although advising against it) also wouldn't do a deal on the BV14 even though it had been sitting in their showroom and on every single day. They claimed it was viewed as a "stock" product and the entire "ex demo" idea was long gone. So they wanted me to pay full price for a TV which was touched, moved around, displaying a picture every day and well used.
It wasn't that long ago a dealer would readily offer ex-demo products for 10-20% off RRP.
Hi, I have to agree. After living with the Beovision Horizon for over a year I gave up. I have now sold all B&O except for the old beocom 6000. After the endless problems with the tv and no help from B&O I dont think I will buy B&O again. I miss the beolab 17s but was to frustrated with B&O to keep them.
Barry Santini:Hello B&O Are you listening?
Are you listening?
I don't think so - I still think there's something big coming. Something different. I don't mean products, I don't mean improvements for dealers. I mean a change in direction and focus. I think we'll see B&O ditch big speakers and TVs and focus on widening their BeoPlay products, which have see a year on year improvement in sales and profit, then incorporate some B&O (BeoSounds, some BLs, Core etc) and sell everything online.
This new website could easily incorporate the future products such as BL3s and a soundbar. I can't even see B&O continuing with the Eclipse product. I can just see them turning their Eclipse contribution in to a soundbar which could be used across multiple TVs.
We'd then have a B&O website with a range of products which sound great, made relatively cheaply and are mostly 'disaposable'.
Barry Santini: Hello B&O Are you listening?
Hello B&O
I think those who care are listening, but can't do anything about it - and those who can do something about it, aren't listening...
We have no idea what's going on in Struer behind closed doors. It could be in total disarray with board members selling their shares when they were at the top and now looking to make a swift exit before it all falls apart and ruins their CV, or there could be the most cunning master plan we've ever seen being hatched.
You get the odd soundbite of "Yessss.... we have some incredible, amazing, groundbreaking new products coming.." - but I tend to think they are told to read that statement from a laminated card they are forced to keep in their wallets and purses at the moment.
The honest answer is - I don't know. Nobody tells me anything any more, and the excited and dedicated people at the factory who used to feed me rumours would now rather watch kittens chase pieces of string on YouTube than email me about the brand and its great new products. Nobody seems enthusiastic, nobody is excited, and everyone seems to be looking backwards rather than forwards.
UK Head Office is a waste of time. The last 'proper' person to run that place with any idea about, and love of the brand, was Lars Flyvholm. Struer seems to have become a bit of a void, with the good people (rightly) jumping ship - and the remainers (of which there still genuinely are some good people) just fire-fighting day in, day out, with little thanks.
Anyway. Sorry this became a bit of a rant. I still haven't had an email from anyone at B&O. I don't expect I will, either.
moxxey:We'd then have a B&O website with a range of products which sound great, made relatively cheaply and are mostly 'disaposable'.
This does seem to be a fairly likely scenario. If so, it will be very disappointing to me as I don't have much need for these types of products, but c'est la vie. It will at least save me money...
It is very sad to read about the experiences of those in this thread who have bought B&O's more recent TVs and who haven't received the "premium" experience that these products should provide. There are no easy answers to these issues, but at the very least B&O do need to listen to their customers and address their concerns if they are to have any chance of keeping their loyalty.
In terms of the wider issues regarding B&O's strategy, I understand the reason that some feel disillusioned, but I for one am positive about the future. Maybe this analogy will help me to explain why:-
As a sportscar fanatic, I was initially annoyed when Porsche launched the Cayenne SUV, as it appeared to be diluting their brand and moving their focus away from niche high-performance racing cars to mass-market consumer vehicles. However, a decade or so later, I can see that the cash this generated has funded some incredible sports cars that might never have been possible had they not monetised their brand and broadened their appeal.
B&O Play appears (in financial terms at least) to have been a similar success so far, providing much-needed income for B&O and bringing them to the attention of a much wider market. We have already seen the launch of a couple of "halo" products as a result, ie. the superb Beolab 50 and 90 speakers.
I don't think that it is reasonable to expect a fairly small company such as B&O to always be at the forefront of technology in every area, so I suspect that it is more sensible for them to be focusing on their core strength of building stylish and capable loudspeakers.
I agree that it would be nice if B&O slipped us Beoworlders some hints about their plans once in a while so that as enthusiasts and collectors we could plan our future purchases. However, that probably isn't a sensible way for them to approach the current technology marketplace, with its cut-throat competition and fast pace of development.
I don't have a crystal ball or access to any special insider information. However, I remain upbeat, as I can see that B&O appear to be setting the scene for a healthier future, despite their recent product issues.
And on top of that, there are 90 years of superb B&O products out there in the pre-owned marketplace to collect and enjoy......
Steve.
www.soundsheavenly.com
Founder of Sounds Heavenly Cables and Brand Ambassador for Bang & Olufsen
Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!
Please check out my YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
It's really a shame about B&O.
Now for Audio, most devices can be used for a looong time yet, with plug in expansions. The fact is that digital audio MUST still be converted to analog for us to hear it. I own a lot of B&O audio products and love them.
But Video???
I am sorry, but ever since we went digital and the constant barrage of competing standards, codecs and HDMI versions, etc. etc. One would have to question the sanity of investing many thousands into a technology that is almost obsolete the day you buy it. With flat panel and all digital display technology, you are locked in. And it's constantly changing.
Bought a 720p tv? guess what, already obsolete to 1080. Got that? Sorry 4K. Heyy, I just upgraded to 4K!! Well, enjoy it, 8K is already on the horizon. BTW, your TV won't play MKV.... sorry... We at smart tv central CONTROL what you may watch!
Ugh....
I love B&O.... I really do. But I own a cheap ROKU TV, because I will be tossing it in the trash and forced to upgrade in likely less than 5 years. So why waste the money. I'd rather restore another set of Beolab Pentas!
I really wish B&O built TV's like Panasonic did with their commercial Plasma sets. I do have a few of these, and it uses plug-in modules. This was a great path to upgrades, but then you keep your set "too long". Can't have that today.
Oh well...
Cheers!
Thanks, Steve for being a bt more positive thinking about the future Bang & Olufsen than (almost) any other poster in this thread.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Buying a TV in an informed way is a complex task, compared to yesteryear for sure.
So i agree with that inference - joe public will have little idea about HDR formats, optimising PQ for different sources etc.
But i wouldn't say there is immediate obsolescence though - for those who have bought 4K HDR tv's in the last 18 months, i don't think that many will feel the need to upgrade to 8K sets in 2019. The content needs to catch up, which is a 3-5 year process still, even for 4K HDR.
And there will be diminishing returns to the extra pixels of 8 vs 4K (HDR is the big improvement), so again, a new 4K HDR tv will be top notch for another 5 years.
Agree that all this does make sinking 10k into a TV a bit harder to justify, though i'd still pay roughly half that for a BV that did its job properly.
That for 5 years or so use sees about right to me, though everyone will see that value judgement differently.
True, but it was based on nothing but blind optimism, and discounts the poor experience of the last few years.
Beyond Beolabs and Beosounds, the product portfolio looks worryingly thin.
Steve at Sounds Heavenly: I don't think that it is reasonable to expect a fairly small company such as B&O to always be at the forefront of technology in every area, so I suspect that it is more sensible for them to be focusing on their core strength of building stylish and capable loudspeakers.
What's more reasonable ? paying 5 folds the price of a high end TV and expect an almost non existent support ?
We are not asking for more features or state of the art specs. All what we are asking for is a stable software capable of living the expectations of whatever they made you believe to pay for their product.
I am not sure if it's a typical to experience software incompatibilty and crashes when watching a movie on a $15k TV.
Doesn't matter how small the company is. The brand name alone should prevent such negative feedback.
It took years for the beosound moment to work as planned yet some people are still in doubt. When it did, they discontinued it.
I can tell you that B&O is very good at engineering. They have professional sound engineers, designers and sales teams maybe; BUT it's obivous to the blind that they can't do software.
They need to recruit a whole new team of software developers and fire the amateurs behind all this chaos.
B&O was good when everything was analog. Nowadays, everything is digital.. It's the software that matters the most.
In the end, it looks like this small company is still doing fine. Who knows....
Sibbi:I have now sold all B&O except for the old beocom 6000
BeoNut since '75
moxxey:I mean a change in direction and focus. I think we'll see B&O ditch big speakers and TVs and focus on widening their BeoPlay products
Millemissen:Thanks, Steve for being a bt more positive thinking about the future Bang & Olufsen than (almost) any other poster in this thread. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
Sandyb:Agree that all this does make sinking 10k into a TV a bit harder to justify, though i'd still pay roughly half that for a BV that did its job properly.That for 5 years or so use sees about right to me, though everyone will see that value judgement differently.