ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi there folks,
I've recently acquired some Lab 5's (demo models from the store). The dealers have previously calibrated them and I note slightly more bass from on of the speakers. Despite this they are impressive. I prefer not to recalibrate to my room until I can I know what their default setting is like. Does anyone know how to set the speakers back to default sound settings (its not in the manual)??
On a previous discussion I think it was Moxxey that said he wasn't happy with the speakers following calibration. Has any one else this experience or the converse? Thats my primary concern preventing re-calibration.
Thanks
J
You have to calibrate them when you get them first as otherwise you get a flashing green light! I have had a look at the service manual, and it makes no note of a default setting. You can of course fool the system by altering the environment around the microphone. I would calibrate!!
Peter
To reset to factory default you press the calibration point for 10-15 seconds. The calibration will start as usual but if you keep pressing it will stop and shut down resetting it self to factory default.
You should know that factory default is just a calibration for a room at B&O, so you don't get a flat EQ or anything useful at all. In my room the factory default sounds very thin. So does an actual calibration. If you like the sound now keep it. You never know what you get.
I would really like the factory default to be something close to no EQ. I think that would help many who are troubled by the calibration short comings. The flashing green light when not calibrated is of course also an issue but I am often tempted to live with that over the calibration in my own room. However the green flashes do get very annoying, espeacially since they are not sync'ed between the speakers.
What kimchr says is pretty much correct. The default setting has no testing or performance significance. Interestingly, if the default setting was for "anechoic flat" the speaker would have absurdly loud (unusable!) bass response in any normal room.
I can sympathise with the wish to not disturb the prior calibration setting, but it is no more than a calibration to deal with the speaker's previous position in a previous room. Those of us who try to "EQ" our Beolab 5s by "gaming" the calibration are making a mistake. Far better to buy a good equalizer and put it in line to tweak performance to your taste. I've often experimented with this, and have a couple of settings I like, but I haven't permanently implemented any of them.
I hope this helps. Thanks for listening!
Dave
Beology: On a previous discussion I think it was Moxxey that said he wasn't happy with the speakers following calibration. Has any one else this experience or the converse? Thats my primary concern preventing re-calibration.
Yes, correct. They were pre-calibrated (they were a pre-loved pair) and much preferred the audio before I decided to calibrate to my room (smaller, sash windows, wooden floor etc). They were never the same again. Just to add though - I didn't know that 15 seconds to set to factory default trick, at the time. Mind you, my other (smaller) issue was that they were huge in my room, so didn't last more than a year in my place.
Hi guys,
Thanks for your responses- I think I will just calibrate as suggested as the differing base levels between the speakers is slightly annoying. We'll see how we go.
I have to say they are a truly fantastic speaker. My wife and son who previously never really cared about speaker quality too much, keep saying how life-like the sound is and are very impressed. Even better is the fact that they sit comfortably in, rather than dominate my room.
They are a superb product and one of the best I have purchased - more bang for the buck than far more expensive products too (eg cars)!
Cheers
MrDMoulton: What kimchr says is pretty much correct. The default setting has no testing or performance significance. Interestingly, if the default setting was for "anechoic flat" the speaker would have absurdly loud (unusable!) bass response in any normal room. I can sympathise with the wish to not disturb the prior calibration setting, but it is no more than a calibration to deal with the speaker's previous position in a previous room. Those of us who try to "EQ" our Beolab 5s by "gaming" the calibration are making a mistake. Far better to buy a good equalizer and put it in line to tweak performance to your taste. I've often experimented with this, and have a couple of settings I like, but I haven't permanently implemented any of them. I hope this helps. Thanks for listening! Dave
Horse's mouth - I would do as Dave says!
MrDMoulton:What kimchr says is pretty much correct. The default setting has no testing or performance significance. Interestingly, if the default setting was for "anechoic flat" the speaker would have absurdly loud (unusable!) bass response in any normal room. I can sympathise with the wish to not disturb the prior calibration setting, but it is no more than a calibration to deal with the speaker's previous position in a previous room. Those of us who try to "EQ" our Beolab 5s by "gaming" the calibration are making a mistake. Far better to buy a good equalizer and put it in line to tweak performance to your taste. I've often experimented with this, and have a couple of settings I like, but I haven't permanently implemented any of them. I hope this helps. Thanks for listening! Dave
i used fuzz measure to do countless of measurements while moving my speakers around and recalibrating. i have been tempted to eq it in pure music but i would like to avoid adding, turning up frequencies. i thougt about renting a sports dome for a day to calibrate and hopefully get some bass. then i can eq bass down again in my living room.
Maab: MrDMoulton: What kimchr says is pretty much correct. The default setting has no testing or performance significance. Interestingly, if the default setting was for "anechoic flat" the speaker would have absurdly loud (unusable!) bass response in any normal room. I can sympathise with the wish to not disturb the prior calibration setting, but it is no more than a calibration to deal with the speaker's previous position in a previous room. Those of us who try to "EQ" our Beolab 5s by "gaming" the calibration are making a mistake. Far better to buy a good equalizer and put it in line to tweak performance to your taste. I've often experimented with this, and have a couple of settings I like, but I haven't permanently implemented any of them. I hope this helps. Thanks for listening! Dave Just a tip to whoever use a computer as a source... I calibrated my bl5 via Dirac Live room correction software, at it works great!
Just a tip to whoever use a computer as a source... I calibrated my bl5 via Dirac Live room correction software, at it works great!
How does it work?
kimchr:i thougt about renting a sports dome for a day to calibrate and hopefully get some bass. then i can eq bass down again in my living room.
Can't you just locate them on the patio or garden (on a sunny day of course) or do you live above ground level?
Ban boring signatures!
koning:How does it work?
i live in an apartmemt building in central copenhagen. i think alot of people would be surprised if i took my speakers to the street. i do have a balcony, though. i might give it a try from there. regarding the dirac software it looks interesting. one problem is that it will only correct the digital signal from my mac. not the analog coming from beosystem 3. I will request a trial in a few weeks and see how it works for me.
Hey there!
I know I am kinda hijacking the thread a little but Dave do you know when you will be coming out with an upgraded version of the Lab5s? Or even a grander version? I really like what they can do but as I am an audiophile I have anxieties about their dated digital components. I think B&O should introduce upgrade schemes like what Linn did with their power supplies to great success. I believe extra cash flow and added longevity to the speaker line is always welcomed.
Alex
wonderfulelectric:Hey there! I know I am kinda hijacking the thread a little but Dave do you know when you will be coming out with an upgraded version of the Lab5s? Or even a grander version? I really like what they can do but as I am an audiophile I have anxieties about their dated digital components. I think B&O should introduce upgrade schemes like what Linn did with their power supplies to great success. I believe extra cash flow and added longevity to the speaker line is always welcomed. Alex
Yes like what you said a more modern connectivity like 24bit/196khz input will be nice. Reason why I didn't go for the meridians is because of the limited processing/input bandwidth too. Well improved power supplies can do many things to the sound in fact one of the main determinance of good amplifiers lies in the power supply. I have a high end rig at home that sounded dramatically improved after simple fuse upgrades. The sound is much more engaging and intimate. It is definitely not snake oil btw. I mean the technology employed in the beolab 5s can really be taken to another level by introducing even more refined dsp in the bass and of course better drivers. Dacs today are with a doubt much better sounding than the ones from yesteryear too. The beolab 5 has been around for almost ten years after all. I think B&O can totally upgrade the current ones and give existing owners the option of upgrading too. It really isn't that hard to do.
Wow just noticed that you are using Dirac software. How do you like it? Is it hard to set up? I don't like the fact that it is too limited to 24bit/96khz.
wonderfulelectric:Yes like what you said a more modern connectivity like 24bit/196khz input will be nice. Reason why I didn't go for the meridians is because of the limited processing/input bandwidth too. Well improved power supplies can do many things to the sound in fact one of the main determinance of good amplifiers lies in the power supply. I have a high end rig at home that sounded dramatically improved after simple fuse upgrades. The sound is much more engaging and intimate. It is definitely not snake oil btw. I mean the technology employed in the beolab 5s can really be taken to another level by introducing even more refined dsp in the bass and of course better drivers. Dacs today are with a doubt much better sounding than the ones from yesteryear too. The beolab 5 has been around for almost ten years after all. I think B&O can totally upgrade the current ones and give existing owners the option of upgrading too. It really isn't that hard to do.
wonderfulelectric:Wow just noticed that you are using Dirac software. How do you like it? Is it hard to set up? I don't like the fact that it is too limited to 24bit/96khz.
Maab:Hi-res music is not widely available. Many serious people in the know,think that the way human hearing works there should be no audible difference between 44.1 and 192 formats. I lost interest in hi res because many of the titles I have do sound even worse than cd.
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
We have no involvement with B&O at this time, and are "not in the loop" regarding their development plans. We have no plans . . .
The BeoLab 5 will be ten years old next spring. I'm very pleased that it has been both so successful and so robust and stable in its performance capability. I'm also very interested that no one else has tried to compete with it (power, dispersion, calibration, production tolerances, overall performance). All things considered, it remains a "world-class" museum-quality product that simply outperforms everything else in small and medium-sized rooms for anything near the price. I feel like we got it really close to right.
IF (and I'm not!) I were to think of upgrading the 5, I would revisit the drivers (simply to see what is now available that might be an improvement). I would do a similar review of the convertors and DSP, not because I think anything is wrong (there isn't), but it is always wise to test our assumptions.
Because everybody seems so hot to tweak the response during calibration, I'd consider offering a couple of generic pre-set rooms (small-dry, medium-wet, IEC, etc.), as well as some very gentle tweaking slopes (3-position?) for both high and low end so you could have more fun playing with the speakers.
The BeoLab 5 does not need additional power. The frequency response remains superb. The S/PDIF and unbalanced analog inputs seem fine to me – I can't judge how connectivity is working with Master Link and current B&O products, but that's an area to be considered. I'd love for all purchasers to be given a Sound Level Meter with purchase, just you could begin to get a little more precise control.
That about covers it for now. Thanks for listening.
Best regards,
Dave Moulton, Sausalito Audio
Thank you Mr. Moulton for sharing with us. I think you are right, that this speaker is world class or at least can be under the right circumstances. We did have a thread earlier this year on wishes for a 10-year anniversary edition of BL5.
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/289.aspx
I would very much appreciate the presets you mention. I am one of the unfortunate that have yet to hear the BL5 sing in my living room. A B&O technician visited me to make sure the speakers very setup alright, updated, calibrated and everything. I was surprised to learn how little even he could do. The diagnostics options were down to a read out of operating hours ( standby/on hours ) and the software version.
Besides that the room measurement could apparently be read and sent to B&O but we did not do that. So status is still that I want these speakers in my room but for listening I am still better off with my BL3s.
kimchr:Thank you Mr. Moulton for sharing with us. I think you are right, that this speaker is world class or at least can be under the right circumstances. We did have a thread earlier this year on wishes for a 10-year anniversary edition of BL5. http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/289.aspx I would very much appreciate the presets you mention. I am one of the unfortunate that have yet to hear the BL5 sing in my living room. A B&O technician visited me to make sure the speakers very setup alright, updated, calibrated and everything. I was surprised to learn how little even he could do. The diagnostics options were down to a read out of operating hours ( standby/on hours ) and the software version. Besides that the room measurement could apparently be read and sent to B&O but we did not do that. So status is still that I want these speakers in my room but for listening I am still better off with my BL3s.
maclife:http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html
What I'd suggest for kimchr is to buy a good equalizer and start gently studying your own personal timbral response preferences. The BeoLab 5 is a fabulous platform for doing this because of its extremely smooth and extended response. You want something the speakers aren't giving you, and I suspect it is there for you with the appropriate equalization.
Just so you know, when I'm mastering, I almost always find there's more to tease out of a recording to get it "to sing for me," and I always go for it. I have a stable of signal-processing tricks that I use and I see and hear nothing wrong with this approach. In your case, you're just beginning to act on what your ears are asking for. I'd start with EQ, and I'd start with gentle (+2 or 3 dB) broadband boosts in the 2500 - 10,000 Hz. range. Do some extended listening with the EQ in and then out. At some point, you SHOULD be able to get these speakers (of all speakers) to sing for you.
So, good luck with this. There is a lot to learn and a lot of fun and musical satisfaction and joy to be had along the way. Keep me posted on how you make out.
Best regards and thanks for listening!
thank you mr. Moulton. i have a weeks vacation next week so i will experiment further. @maab my listening room is 6.20 x 4.40 m. ceiling height 3 m. a suspended floor from 1880 like the rest of the building. 1m between the supports. void below and then clay and wood. i moved,listened and measured using fuzz measure 100`s of times. i tried the golden cuboid placement, skewed 4\9, all the way into the corners, out again, moved the speakers one by one to the listening position calibrating them here, moved the listening position back and forth. i calibrated,listened and measured each tiny movement. i placed them on big concrete slabs resting on fat dots. i placed them directly on top of the floor supports. between floor supports. i changed the orientation 90 degrees. next week i will try rotating orientation 90 degrees more, eq, calibration on the balcony, ...
kimchr: @maab my listening room is 6.20 x 4.40 m. ceiling height 3 m. a suspended floor from 1880 like the rest of the building. 1m between the supports. void below and then clay and wood. i moved,listened and measured using fuzz measure 100`s of times. i tried the golden cuboid placement, skewed 4\9, all the way into the corners, out again, moved the speakers one by one to the listening position calibrating them here, moved the listening position back and forth. i calibrated,listened and measured each tiny movement. i placed them on big concrete slabs resting on fat dots. i placed them directly on top of the floor supports. between floor supports. i changed the orientation 90 degrees. next week i will try rotating orientation 90 degrees more, eq, calibration on the balcony, ...
@maab my listening room is 6.20 x 4.40 m. ceiling height 3 m. a suspended floor from 1880 like the rest of the building. 1m between the supports. void below and then clay and wood. i moved,listened and measured using fuzz measure 100`s of times. i tried the golden cuboid placement, skewed 4\9, all the way into the corners, out again, moved the speakers one by one to the listening position calibrating them here, moved the listening position back and forth. i calibrated,listened and measured each tiny movement. i placed them on big concrete slabs resting on fat dots. i placed them directly on top of the floor supports. between floor supports. i changed the orientation 90 degrees. next week i will try rotating orientation 90 degrees more, eq, calibration on the balcony, ...
A room correction device will help greatly. all room present problems to deal with, some more than others.... your room could very well be culprit for the abysmal sound you get. the bl5s will perform splendidly in larger rooms. They like ample space and away from boundaries (back/side walls) as much as possible. Again, an eq can help improve some aspects...
After all these years Beolab 5 still has the freaking best measurements I have laid my eyes on http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/forskjeller-og-testmetodikk/11088d1335552195-cambridge-840c-upsampling-inntrykk-beolab5hifinewsreviewdel2 .
Please update the DSP! So I can finally get my hands on the speakers where I couldn't afford back when they were introduced. The drive units seem completely adequate, it is only the dsp I find lacking. I will really like to see 64 bit processing and 24bit/196khz input and a more rigid cabinet. Resonant enclosures can really make speakers sound closed in. Maybe I am one of the few out there but I find Dacs make big differences. Have recently placed an order for a made-to-order totally discrete ladder Dac actually
It is still so unfortunate that some people still presume B&O as a brand that has style over substance.
wonderfulelectric: After all these years Beolab 5 still has the freaking best measurements I have laid my eyes on http://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/attachments/forskjeller-og-testmetodikk/11088d1335552195-cambridge-840c-upsampling-inntrykk-beolab5hifinewsreviewdel2 . Please update the DSP! So I can finally get my hands on the speakers where I couldn't afford back when they were introduced. The drive units seem completely adequate, it is only the dsp I find lacking. I will really like to see 64 bit processing and 24bit/196khz input and a more rigid cabinet. Resonant enclosures can really make speakers sound closed in. Maybe I am one of the few out there but I find Dacs make big differences. Have recently placed an order for a made-to-order totally discrete ladder Dac actually It is still so unfortunate that some people still presume B&O as a brand that has style over substance.
That is a very interesting review/set of measurements, wonderfulelectric.
Are you able to link to the full review by any chance?
Lab 5's are my 'dream' speaker and a good review will help fuel that dream to come to fruition!
Kind regards
John...
Unfortunately I think the link for the full review has long been taken down. The review was done way back in 2004 or 2005 I think. I do remember however, that the speakers were praised for their performance and value.
btw Dr Mouton have you ever considered to narrow down the dispersion pattern of the lenses a little. I don't think a 180 degree dispersion pattern will sound well in all rooms and might not appeal to the audiophiles who might have bright sounding rooms. I think 90 degree dispersion will be the most ideal for most situations.
Is there concern that your speakers are not working as well as you would have liked based on your room size? I'm asking as I'd like to have a pair of BeoLab 5's in my basement listening room, hopefully in the next year.
My room dimensions are 35' x 16' x 6.67' (D x W x H) (10.7 m x 4.9 m x 2.0 m). The speakers would be installed along the 16' (4.9 m) wall.
Does the room construction have any bearing on how well these particular speakers do? Three of my walls are wood paneling on wood studs with stone foundation behind. One of the long walls has solid brick with wood paneling for half it's length while the other half of this wall is wood paneling on wood studs with an open room behind.
The floor is carpet over poured concrete.
The ceiling is an acoustical panels on metal grid. Above that are wood joists with a solid wood floor.
There are no windows and (3) person doors.
How well would the BeoLab 5's work in this room?
David
The ceiling is acoustical panel on metal grid. Above that are wood joists with a solid wood floor.
Regarding upgraded DSP performance, I personally don't feel this necessary.
192KHz sampling has been shown to cause more problems than it solves (ref: Dan Lavry - Sampling Theory for Digital Audio) and 24bit sampling depth already gives us over 144dB of dynamic range (around 36dB more than the BeoLab 5 is capable of, and still more than the dynamic range of almost any analog front end in use in audio today).
Audio above 24bit depth is only really useful for internal processing on digital audio workstations IMO.