ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi fellow Beomaster 8000 owners.As an owner of two fully restored Beomaster 8000 receivers I know how well they perform. My two receivers have been working flawlessly for quite some time. My first Beomaster 8000 has been operating since 2013. My second one since 2019.While I have enjoyed my Beomaster 8000 receivers I know of four where the Beomaster units have exhibited some very unusual behavior. The reported problem some owners are seeing is the Beomaster 8000 will sometimes turn on (usually to FM preset number 2) from Standby mode by itself. At first we thought the problem was just some anomaly. However, the problem persisted for the small group reporting it. I have been talking to these owners about this problem since 2018 and the problem appears to occur pretty regularly for these Beomaster 8000 units.I have had one of those problem Beomaster 8000 units in my workshop before. After testing it for three months I could never get the problem to appear.It would be easy to assume then that the problem has something to do with electric power in the regions where the problem occurs but we have done plenty of tests to rule that out.
My suspicion is that the problem is related to the remote control receiver circuit in the Beomaster 8000 but so far, swapping power supply boards (which have the remote control circuit on it) has not resulted in any change to the owners with the problem.
I would like to know if there are any other Beomaster 8000 receiver owners besides the four I know about who have experienced this problem. The four owners that I know have the problem are two Beomaster 8000 owners in Canada (they reside on opposite coasts from each other). One owner in the USA. Then finally, one owner in Australia. So the problem is pretty spread out. I am curious to know if this problem occurs in Europe, Asia, Africa or South America.
Thanks,sonavor
Hi, i have a few Beomaster 8000 myself and restored a few others and never had this issue coming from the Beomaster.
I had one Beomaster 6000 with this error but ist was coming from the Remote.
tried this Remote with a few beomasters and it was fully working, but sometimes it sended the Signal to start the Beomaster.
so maybe they should Look at their Remote. Take out the Batteries and see what happens.
Schletti82: I had one Beomaster 6000 with this error but ist was coming from the Remote. tried this Remote with a few beomasters and it was fully working, but sometimes it sended the Signal to start the Beomaster. so maybe they should Look at their Remote. Take out the Batteries and see what happens.
Hi,
That is very interesting and definitely something I will suggest.Thanks,-sonavor
Hi
That´s funny, I thought I would be alone in the world with a BM 8000 which comes up from alone.
Had the same issue with the amp starting usualy on FM P3.
First I thought, like you, about the IR reciever and a energy saving lamp which stays over the amp. Changed the lamp to a regular bulb > nothing changed.
Fed the amp over a 220 V UPS > nothing changed.
I searched a lot and found out that the STBY / 5 Volt line comming from PCB 6 via P48-6 has an issue which I could not sort out.
I know it´s the voltage which controlles the relay circurit ...but.
the voltage is near 2.5 Volt in STBY and not the expected 5 Volt.
I opened the line comming from R55 and the voltage comming fro uPC was ok 5 volt or Low level.
headscratching till no hair is there anymore ;-))
I can´t realy remember what I did but I think I changed one or two resistors to another value think R55 and R56 on PCB 9 and R36 on PCB 6, That brought the voltage near 3,5 Volt in STBY and the amp was woking as expected.
I changed the value quiet carefully because I didn´t want to shoot the uPC and as there was no more resonable change of the voltage I let it be as it was.
This is not the ususal way how I work but I rechecked and renewed following components on PCB 6: TR11, TR12, D12, R67, R68 and nothing changed.
So the Beomaster is still working and I let it as it is.
Maybe you can find something suspect in this area around TR11, TR12, D12 and the involved resistors.
Where is the voltage drawn down to 2,5 volt?
What is about the misery voltage -20 mV between R67/R66, from where comes the minus? and the 43mV at the base of TR11 when the unit is turned on?
Another spot to look at would be the STBY line comming from uPC PIN 14 via R57/R58 P76-7 to PCB 6 P48-4 R50 to TR5.
Hope to give you some points to think about if not already done ;-))
BTW: 220 Volt in Germany
Kind regards
Christian
Hi John,
No such issues with my two BM8000, no.
Jacques
Spassmaker: Hi That´s funny, I thought I would be alone in the world with a BM 8000 which comes up from alone. Had the same issue with the amp starting usualy on FM P3. First I thought, like you, about the IR reciever and a energy saving lamp which stays over the amp. Changed the lamp to a regular bulb > nothing changed. Fed the amp over a 220 V UPS > nothing changed. I searched a lot and found out that the STBY / 5 Volt line comming from PCB 6 via P48-6 has an issue which I could not sort out. I know it´s the voltage which controlles the relay circurit ...but. the voltage is near 2.5 Volt in STBY and not the expected 5 Volt. I opened the line comming from R55 and the voltage comming fro uPC was ok 5 volt or Low level. headscratching till no hair is there anymore ;-)) I can´t realy remember what I did but I think I changed one or two resistors to another value think R55 and R56 on PCB 9 and R36 on PCB 6, That brought the voltage near 3,5 Volt in STBY and the amp was woking as expected. I changed the value quiet carefully because I didn´t want to shoot the uPC and as there was no more resonable change of the voltage I let it be as it was. This is not the ususal way how I work but I rechecked and renewed following components on PCB 6: TR11, TR12, D12, R67, R68 and nothing changed. So the Beomaster is still working and I let it as it is. Maybe you can find something suspect in this area around TR11, TR12, D12 and the involved resistors. Where is the voltage drawn down to 2,5 volt? What is about the misery voltage -20 mV between R67/R66, from where comes the minus? and the 43mV at the base of TR11 when the unit is turned on? Another spot to look at would be the STBY line comming from uPC PIN 14 via R57/R58 P76-7 to PCB 6 P48-4 R50 to TR5. Hope to give you some points to think about if not already done ;-)) BTW: 220 Volt in Germany Kind regards Christian
Thanks for the reply Christian. I guess you can be Case #5 :-)
When I had one of the Beomaster 8000 units in my shop for three months (and was not successful in reproducing the problem)...I tried simulating a short power outage as well as momentarily triggering the reset line to the Microcomputer board. Those events will only result in the Beomaster 8000 coming back to Standby.I think the problem has to cause an event on a source selection control line for the auto-turn-on to occur.Similar to the test suggested by Beoworld member: Schletti82 which is to remove batteries from the BM8000 remote control I was going to suggest disabling the control lines from the remote control receiver (on the BM8000 Power Supply board). It still seems like a likely suspect.Just so you know, I did ask a couple of the BM8000 owners with the problem to unplug/remove their BM8000 control panel to eliminate that component as a problem source. The problem still remained. That still leaves the remote control circuit a suspect.-sonavor
Forgot to mention that I exchanged the controlbutton board as well > nothing changed
Completely overhauled with all caps and so on. Desoldered and resoldered all plugs and vias which are involved.
Great. Thanks for that Lee.It will be interesting to see if or how these all relate.I can see an issue in the keypad path causing a problem.In your case though, did the Beomaster 8000 just randomly turn on by itself and start playing an FM source? Was it always the same FM source (i.e. FM 2 or FM 3)?In one of the four cases I looked at the keypad was eliminated as a problem source. For that case I think that leaves the remote control receiver which sends its commands to the BM8000 Microcomputer board via P76-10. P76 has other signals not related to the remote control so it wouldn't be a good test to disconnect P76. I would like to see someone with the problem try removing that remote control path though. Maybe by temporarily removing transistor 6TR26 (on the Power Supply board).
-sonavor
We have a post about the opposite problem...a Beomaster 8000 going into Standby from playing a music source. That problem was with bad vias on the Microcomputer board.
With this auto-turn-on problem it is sounding like possibly more than one problem. In your case it was with the Microcomputer board.On the four cases I reported (and now five with Christian's BM8000) the Microcomputer board was replaced and the problem still existed. I would like to see if someone that has the problem can try removing transistor 6TR26 (from the Power Supply PCB) to disconnect the remote control connection to the Microcomputer board and see if that stops the auto-turn-on from happening.
I think I would focus a bit on the 5V supply.Bad filtering - f.e. the 10uF capacitor at the regulator - can cause many problems.Could perhaps also be a certain batch of voltage regulators causing this.A little additional filtering when the 5V reaches the processor board wouldn't hurt either (a 10uF and a 100nF in parallel perhaps).
Martin
Hi Martin,I have done quite a bit in those areas already. I even tried a couple of different BM8000 Power Supply boards. That doesn't guarantee that eliminates the board and its components from the problem of course. I have also tried several different Micrcomputer boards. Both Rudy and I have monitored the +5VDC line as well but no luck catching the problem so far....which, of course, is because I haven't been able to experience the problem first hand. One of the problem Beomaster 8000 units sent to me never exhibited the problem once. I had it plugged in and in use here for three months.I toggle back and forth between whether the problem is environmental or electrical. That is why I created this thread to see if the problem has occurred in other places and to see how common or uncommon the problem is. It appears to be extremely uncommon and there doesn't seem to be any published service bulletin from B&O about it. There is a similar problem that B&O did put out a notice about in the Beomaster 6000 (Type 225x). In that they do reference the +5 VDC regulator and something in the remote control receiver. So those two areas are something I would like to see some BM8000 owner with the problem try to investigate.
John
Hi John
Had investigated the controllbutton board, cleaned all contacts but no difference.
I've had this problem most times after the Beomaster was plugged into 220 V, wait 1 or 2 miutes and "click" > ON
After the unit was switched off aggain the Amp was quiet. and didn't start on it's own for hours.
When the Amp is continious connected to mains the problem seems to be gone.
A little bit Off topic does someone noticed the Balance Display glimming parallel to the Volume Display after installing new SMD LED's?
If yes did anybody solve this issue?
Thanks for advice.
Kind regards Christian
Hi Christian,
Are you saying that your experience with the problem is only within the first few minutes of plugging the Beomaster 8000 into your mains power?When the Beomaster is left plugged into your 220V mains for lengthy periods of time it doesn't exhibit the auto-turn-on problem?
That is different than the four Beomaster 8000 units I reported about. On those Beomaster units they are always plugged into the mains. They periodically come on by themselves (usually FM 2). The owners then press the "O" Standby button again to turn them off.I will restate that my purpose for this post is to gauge how prevalent the problem is among Beomaster 8000 owners. So far it confirms that the problem is very rare.One concern I had was how risky it is to restore a Beomaster 8000 with regard to encountering this problem. I feel that the risk is extremely small given the responses so far.
Spassmaker: A little bit Off topic does someone noticed the Balance Display glimming parallel to the Volume Display after installing new SMD LED's? If yes did anybody solve this issue? Thanks for advice. Kind regards Christian
Yes, this is quite common. The SMD replacements are slightly brighter I believe. You also can only dim them so far with the trimmer on the Display board before reaching a level that interferes with the +5VDC power...at which point the Beomaster 8000 won't function.I should probably spend some time to see if I can find a different SMD replacement LED to use but I haven't done that yet.
This is what I ment, as I remember so far is that the Amp, after connected to mains AND switched ON within the first minute, the unit shut down after a few minuts like it switched on when just conneted to mains...
hope you understand what I mean ;-))
Best regards
Had one Beomaster with new MD LED´s and changed all current limiting resistors , changed the value for the 5 Volt trimmer, changed both LED driver IC´s and the 3 darlington transistors, had no success so far,
as you wrote, if you go to far down with the 5 Volt it doesn´t function anymore
Had another conversation with scope measurements of the PHASE 1, 2 and 3 opened. but seems sometimes normal with the new LED sometimes not. Had 4 BM 8000 refurbished 2 without that glimming 2 with glimming, always same type of LED.
To read here: https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/45494/329001.aspx#329001
Maybe we get too crazy about that kind of perfection
My Beomaster 8000 started randomly switching itself on (always to FM P3) a few years back when it was in regular use in the dining room.
A certain Mr. Jarman told me to check two things - firstly make sure that it wasn't sitting in direct sunlight as this can sometimes activate the remote sensor. It was at the back of the room and well shaded, so this was not the issue.
His second suggestion was to change the battery in the remote handset as he said that, as these run down, they can cause the handset to do odd things, including sending our random commands on its own!
I changed the battery - no more problems.
This was a relief as, the first couple of times it did it, my wife was away and hearing random talking late at night in a house in the middle of nowhere in the countryside when you're on your own is a bit unnerving!
Hi Adam,
Thanks for that information. The remote control functionality has always seemed like a prime suspect for this problem I have thought. It is the only item other than the keypad that initiates a source to be switched.
Lee:It was always a FM source. I think it varied which program though. It’s been that long since it did it that I may be miss remembering. I’m sure Rudy wrote a post about this on your blog.
Hi Lee,
I finally found Rudy's post that I think you are referring to here.The last I heard that Beomaster 8000 unit is one of the four this Beoworld Post of mine refers to with the continuing auto-turn-on problem.John
Spassmaker: This is what I ment, as I remember so far is that the Amp, after connected to mains AND switched ON within the first minute, the unit shut down after a few minuts like it switched on when just conneted to mains... hope you understand what I mean ;-)) Best regards Christian
So your problem is the opposite of the auto-turn-on then.Your Beomaster 8000 issue sounds more like this issue Rudy posted on the Beolover Blog.
Hi, personally i never noticed this.
avensis18: Hi, personally i never noticed this
Hi, personally i never noticed this
Thanks for responding.Have you had your Beomaster 8000 in service long? John
AdamS: My Beomaster 8000 started randomly switching itself on (always to FM P3) a few years back when it was in regular use in the dining room. A certain Mr. Jarman told me to check two things - firstly make sure that it wasn't sitting in direct sunlight as this can sometimes activate the remote sensor. It was at the back of the room and well shaded, so this was not the issue. His second suggestion was to change the battery in the remote handset as he said that, as these run down, they can cause the handset to do odd things, including sending our random commands on its own! I changed the battery - no more problems. This was a relief as, the first couple of times it did it, my wife was away and hearing random talking late at night in a house in the middle of nowhere in the countryside when you're on your own is a bit unnerving!
I have and update...
I checked with a couple of the owners that are in the group of four Beomaster 8000 units that are experiencing the auto-turn-on problem.They had already tested their issue with the remote control out of the equation. Either in a drawer or batteries removed. The problem remained.I am still waiting for someone with the problem to try removing transistor 6TR26 and see if that solves it. That will disconnect the BM8000 remote control receiver circuit from the Microcomputer board. John
Yes I have noticed that. But the original LEDs did it too although much less bright so only really noticeable in a very dark room.