Beovision 11 image processing exhibits "slow-motion effect" in images with little motion (on certain sources and/or videos)

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lundmark Posted: Sat, Dec 28 2013 10:27 PM

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I've been watching my BV11 for a few weeks now and I've noticed some artifacts in the image, which I believe are caused by the image processing that interpolates frames between each actual frame. 

In images where there isn't much movement, like say a close-up of someone's face, there can be a noticeable drop in frame rate. I'm able to tell by the little movement that there is, for example small facial movements. It looks pretty much like a slow-motion effect. It only affects the image shortly, before picking up speed again. It's like the subtle movement affects the image processors ability to "guess" the frames.

The effect is subtle, but frequent and I'm bothered by it. This does not happen when the image processing is turned off in game mode, but of course the image is not as smooth as a result.
This should occur on the V1 and Beosystem 4 too. Have you experienced it and what's your take?

Update:
Actually, it seems to differ between sources or video files. I have been watching different sources all day to set things straight and I haven't noticed any "slow-mo" effect when streaming using the in-built Home Media function (DLNA) from Plex. The Apple TV though is a different story, and I experience these slowdowns on both Netflix and Airplay'ed media from iOS and Plex. 

Is it possible that there's an issue with how the Apple TV outputs the image? In its settings, there are options for 50 and 60 Hz output, none of which can display 24p images without judder. I don't think the ATV is 24p compatible. 

Update 2:
I think I've noticed this behavior on other sources too, with certain video files. High-profile 720p/1080p rips play nicely, but when I was watching an iTunes-bought copy of Gravity, the image exhibited some of these slow-downs. It's like the quality of the video is the culprit. Incidentally, this copy of Gravity was made for watching on an Apple TV so there's the possibility that the video quality is the same as with Netflix on ATV, which somehow causes this problem. 

I can't figure this out. 

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lundmark replied on Sat, Dec 28 2013 11:09 PM

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No, I haven't done that, other than to switch to game mode for comparison. 

I know purists want to turn off these things, but the interpolation was on by default and I begun liking it. However, these glitches I can't stand. 
So is this a confirmation that this is to be expected by the image interpolation? If so, I fully understand why people switch it off, even if they (like me) prefer HFR.

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lundmark replied on Sat, Dec 28 2013 11:29 PM

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Can't seem to find any judder settings either. :O

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lundmark replied on Sat, Dec 28 2013 11:29 PM

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lundmark replied on Sat, Dec 28 2013 11:29 PM

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markiedee replied on Sun, Dec 29 2013 1:08 PM

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I would advise that you take the the sharpness down a few notches, when i demoed a bv11 and v1 i found the sharpness to be set to high which  caused a lot of ringing and false contouring and picture tearing and artifacts.

when i reduced the sharpness i found the picture to look a lot more natural and generally looked better. Also a lot of things can be down to settings or resolution if using a bluray player, be sure to set the resolution to 1080p, if the tv has an unscaled setting or screen fit setting i would use that when viewing hd sources as it will display the picture with no overscan and without cropping the picture.

Also make sure that the noise reduction is set to off as hd images doesn't need noise reduction as the picture is of high quality, noise reduction tends to soften hd pictures and add noise instead of reduce it.

It's a shame b&0 haven't given a min, mid, or max option for the frame interpolation. Try what I've suggested and let us know how you get on.

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lundmark replied on Sun, Dec 29 2013 8:04 PM

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markiedee:

I would advise that you take the the sharpness down a few notches, when i demoed a bv11 and v1 i found the sharpness to be set to high which  caused a lot of ringing and false contouring and picture tearing and artifacts.

when i reduced the sharpness i found the picture to look a lot more natural and generally looked better. Also a lot of things can be down to settings or resolution if using a bluray player, be sure to set the resolution to 1080p, if the tv has an unscaled setting or screen fit setting i would use that when viewing hd sources as it will display the picture with no overscan and without cropping the picture.

Also make sure that the noise reduction is set to off as hd images doesn't need noise reduction as the picture is of high quality, noise reduction tends to soften hd pictures and add noise instead of reduce it.

It's a shame b&0 haven't given a min, mid, or max option for the frame interpolation. Try what I've suggested and let us know how you get on.

Thanks. Neither seemed to make a difference, but I have discovered a few more details. Your advice prompted me to compare different sources and sure enough, I found that the Apple TV is affected by this "slow mo" effect but not the built-in Home Media feature which provides smooth images. So there's that. 

I changed the ATV output from 60 to 50 Hz to see if that makes a difference. I also updated my original post to reflect my findings. Maybe it's an ATV issue. 

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lundmark replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 8:39 AM

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It seems the stuttering occurs on all video that isn't top notch 1080p HD. For example, everything I watch on the Apple TV has this problem. It should be readily noticeable to anyone with a Beovision 11 and an Apple TV.

Setting the TV to game mode alleviates the issue, but I'm not yet sure if it disappears entirely. Of course, the image is much worse in this mode and moving images are not as smooth. 

This problem is not visible if I play a high quality bluray rip. 

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moxxey replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 9:01 AM

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lundmark:

It seems the stuttering occurs on all video that isn't top notch 1080p HD. For example, everything I watch on the Apple TV has this problem. It should be readily noticeable to anyone with a Beovision 11 and an Apple TV.

But this *is* a BV11/chassis issue as it happens on my BV11, but didn't on the BV10-46 (and doesn't on the Apple TV-powered BV10-32 in my kitchen!). I noticed this when I connected an Apple TV to the BV11 - looks like frame slow motion at points, during the film. Got used to it now.

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lundmark replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 10:44 AM

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Thanks for confirming.

Do you know why this happens? 

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lundmark replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 10:45 AM

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Thanks for confirming.

Do you know why this happens? 

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rob08 replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 11:39 AM

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I can confirm that I also notice some slowdowns for a scene or two and it then speeds up to normal shortly thereafter. Only while using Netflix on ATV2. I have turned off judder and sharpness is zero. I thought it related to Netflix but it might be the ATV. Interested in knowing if this can be fixed, either on the ATV side or BV11

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lundmark replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 11:45 AM

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I've noticed this also outside of ATV/Netflix too, with poorer-quality rips played over DLNA (though I rarely play these), so it seems to be a BV11 issue. 

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moxxey replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 12:02 PM

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rob08:

I can confirm that I also notice some slowdowns for a scene or two and it then speeds up to normal shortly thereafter. Only while using Netflix on ATV2. I have turned off judder and sharpness is zero. I thought it related to Netflix but it might be the ATV. Interested in knowing if this can be fixed, either on the ATV side or BV11

As I said, it doesn't do it on the BV10, meaning it's less likely to be an Apple TV issue, by process of elimination :)

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Millemissen replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 12:03 PM

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moxxey:

As I said, it doesn't do it on the BV10, meaning it's less likely to be an Apple TV issue, by process of elimination :)

MM

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lundmark replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 12:09 PM

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Yes. I've never seen this phenomenon on any other TV I've used, ever. (Haven't used a V1.)

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Millemissen replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 12:27 PM

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I guess that is a problem with every modern 'high-powered' tv engine!

As I wrote above, the big/new engines make more trouble than the older (example the BV10 engine) did.

Problem is, will the engineers/B&O learn to deal with these powers (needed for picture/audio processing and more/SmartTV, DLNA)?

Just think of future 4K processing - there is no way back to older engines!

Unless you give a s**t about these new possibilities - or you want to wait untill things are getting better....

MM

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rxcohen replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 1:25 PM

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I also have this problem when streaming from AppleTV from time to time but not when playing BR. Shutting down and then restarting ATV seems to eliminate the problem or minimize the problem for a while. 

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moxxey replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 1:41 PM

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Millemissen:

I guess that is a problem with every modern 'high-powered' tv engine!

You should consider applying for a job in B&O's Danish PR division!

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Millemissen replied on Fri, Feb 21 2014 2:58 PM

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Hi Moxxey,

I already tried that - they did not want to pay me enough  

Well, seriously - for how long would someone stay there, who almost advices the costumers to keep their recent BV's and come back some time in the future, when the problems are solved?

No - I was just trying to be realistic!

Every manufacturer of modern tv's has some of these issues (please correct me if I am wrong).

And their products aren't by far as complicated as a BV (with all the audio- and BeoLink/networking- capacities to handle as well).

MM

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The Beonic Man replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 10:59 AM

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Should I avoid buying a BV11 then?

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rob08 replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 11:08 AM

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The_5F00_Beonic_5F00_Man:

Should I avoid buying a BV11 then?

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vikinger replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 11:28 AM

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The_Beonic_Man:

Should I avoid buying a BV11 then?

I've had none of these issues with my BV11.

Then again I haven't got an Apple TV stuck in the unused hinge compartment.

I just use mine as a TV, with its own browser, or with a Cambridge BluRay player.

Only continuing issue is that the radio does not picture mute automatically if switching from TV: you have to switch to another radio station and then back for the picture mute to operate. Maybe this is not important as these screens, as I understand it, do not suffer from screen burn issues with static images.

The internal tuner occasionally locks-up just like the old external Freeview boxes, so now and then you get no sound or no picture on switch- on. Switching off and starting again after 30 seconds usually resolves it. 

The internal web browser cannot stream audio from internet radio stations. Maybe that is the biggest disappointment.

Graham

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Millemissen replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 11:37 AM

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There are a lot of things that I miss on the BV11, but that - and the picture issues - certainly would not keep me away from buying this tv....

.....if I had the spare money

I am in general very pleased with the V1-32 I recently bought for our new work-/guest-/2. living-room.

MM

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lundmark replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 12:05 PM

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I guess it depends on what you watch. This issue is big enough for me to spoil the entire experience of watching Netflix or anything else on the Apple TV. I end up watching these glitches more than I watch the actual content. Knowing how much I watch Netflix and use the Apple TV, I don't think I would have bought this TV in hindsight. 

What we need to figure out is what causes these slow-motion glitches. I can't speak for the built-in DTV receiver because I don't use it, but I have none of these issues with good content over DLNA or from my Mac over HDMI. So the question is: is this an issue only with Apple TV? I don't think so, since I've seen it on other content over DLNA as well, but in any case the effects seem to be most noticeable on the ATV.

The question is why. 

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Chris Townsend replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 12:18 PM

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My picture disappears when i'm watching Apple TV completely. But at least i can listen to it's fabulous speakers though...

No wait

Mines going next week thank god. The whole process of trying to negate the faults that B&O knew about all along, and getting it swapped for something that works will have cost me personally £2,000. Thanks a bunch

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Flappo replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 4:29 PM

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I've got all my movies ( 150+ HD ) stored on my mac mini which I use as a HTPC , don't really see the need for the apple tv apart from linking to an ipad / iphone via airplay to show photos quickly etc

Can't believe you're getting rid of a tv like this over something so trivial. lol

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lundmark replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 4:40 PM

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It's certainly not trivial.

The Apple TV is great for Netflix, iTunes and Airplay, as you mentioned. 

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moxxey replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 9:20 PM

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Flappo:

I've got all my movies ( 150+ HD ) stored on my mac mini which I use as a HTPC , don't really see the need for the apple tv apart from linking to an ipad / iphone via airplay to show photos quickly etc

Can't believe you're getting rid of a tv like this over something so trivial. lol

But you have to buy them all first. New Blu-rays are £15. You can rent on Apple TV. I often rent before buying, to see whether the movie is worth purchasing. Rarely watch the same movie more than two times, so buying can prove quite the commitment.

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Flappo replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 10:26 PM

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Itunes is miles better than blu ray , can you carry 100 blu rays in your pocket ?

If the disc gets messed up in a few years you're stuffed , with itunes you can just download it again as many times as you like

Also you can watch it on many separate macs , pcs and tablets - at the same time - in different rooms

I haven't bought a disc based movie in years

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Millemissen replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 10:27 PM

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Flappo:

I've got all my movies ( 150+ HD ) stored on my mac mini which I use as a HTPC ,

Wow - that must have a huge harddrive!

MM

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Millemissen replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 10:29 PM

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BeoGreg:

A samsung tv glued on a bv11 with bose set will be perfect :-)

Just wait 'till you see the V100

MM

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Millemissen replied on Sat, Feb 22 2014 10:39 PM

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Yep - and a big screen!

MM