ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello all,
I have recently acquired a pair of BL5 for resale purposes that were basically unused by the PO who received them as a sales promotion/reward at the beginning of this year, and decided he didn't want them. Once I return home from being out of town I will actually be upgrading my account and listing these on the BeoWorld For Sale forum. I don't want to list them quite yet as I want to be able to get good photos and the speakers arrived literally the day I was leaving out of town.
I am curious as to what other recent Lab 5 owners are seeing as the latest serial numbers out there. This pair has consecutive serials beginning with "239". I also noticed some differences between the previous 05/06 era pair I sold and these. Namely the power connector was made less beefy on these and it's the same old two prong unit found on the 8000s.
My other question relates to the Sync cable. I didn't get a chance to open the cover before I left, but on the older pair when I opened the sync port I distinctly remember seeing a strange multipin connector in there. Yet the cable I see on Sounds Heavenly is a minjack type cable. Did this change over time as well?
Thanks.
Dear Playdrv4me,
I have for a very long time been keen to hear from someone who has had either the B&W 802d or 800d in the same room as the BL5 and compared the two...! How does the best from the two companies stack up? Please tell us more...
How would you rate the two on:
Treble, midrange, bass, stereoimage, volume / sensitivity, detail, dynamics?
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
seethroughyou: Dear Playdrv4me, I have for a very long time been keen to hear from someone who has had either the B&W 802d or 800d in the same room as the BL5 and compared the two...! How does the best from the two companies stack up? Please tell us more... How would you rate the two on: Treble, midrange, bass, stereoimage, volume / sensitivity, detail, dynamics?
Absolutely. I would be glad to answer your question :)
I have actually been going around doing a little of this already on some other forums where I remembered the BL5s being discounted by supposed "audiophiles". Two such threads came to mind, and in one of them a very neutral buyer was actually comparing BL5s and 800 Diamonds (!), the 25k big boys in the line-up. Now in that case the buyer did end up going with the 800 Diamond after many auditions of both, but said his impression was that B&O were on to something with ALT and that he hoped to hear later refinements of the technology. I personally considered that quite an endorsement, rather than a negative.
As to *my* impressions of the older 802D (there have been 3 generations of 802, which slots beneath 800... Nautilus 802, 802D first with the diamond deposition tweeter, and 802 Diamond with some refinements to the "D"): Well, I should start out by saying that the 802D may already be at a slight disadvantage from the word go, as the listening room I have is also my bedroom. Perhaps because this is a rather small room, many of the potential benefits of the 802's FST midrange and diamond tweeter are lost to a rather slow and sometimes overpowering, even "tubby" bass. I have to turn down my preamplifier's bass control by 1.5 to 2db just to make it tolerable. Supposedly, one of the improvements in the 802 Diamond that has been noted is a tighter, cleaner bass. This is a good thing, because the bass is not up to my standard at least in my listening situation. As for the rest of the spectrum, the 802D is a world-class speaker, from a family utilized in many recording studios across the globe, and it shows. You can never ask the 802 for MORE detail, as it is very present, due in no small part to the diamond tweeters. Do I think the diamond tweeters are some kind of revelation, though? Eh, not really. They are very very nice no doubt. The 802 also has a wide dynamic range and the sound is a little more "full" bodied and slightly less "hollow" in the low-midrange end than the Lab5, and this is taking into account the bass issue. Make no mistake, the 800 Series in general, are a force to be reckoned with.
However, that leads me to the BeoLab 5 and some of the aspects I enjoy most about it. First and foremost, is the silky and very present mid-range. Mids on the 802 are just a little too laid back for my liking. This is made more evident by the overpowering bass issue I have. Total contrast with the Lab 5, I like my mids potent but not fatiguing because I feel this is where so much of the important information for vocals and strings and other instruments lies. The Lab 5s don't disappoint here. They do an amazing job with mids. Highs, while not as crisp or sparkly as the 802, still very much hold their own and are also never fatiguing on the Lab 5. The bass on the Lab 5, while not particularly outstanding in any one aspect, simply does what it needs to do, and that the speaker can exert as much control as it does over such a massive lump of woofer, is truly amazing! Never does it feel to me like you have "Speaker + Subwoofer", which is an incredibly hard science to master with such a large single driver. I continue to be amazed that the Lab 5 handles bass so well overall, so much better than the 802 with roughly equal surface area (two 8 inch cones vs. the Lab's single 15) in just ONE woofer. Again, this could possibly be chalked up to an inadequate listening space, but who cares? If the Lab 5 can do so well in this same space, why should the 802 get a pass here? And perhaps that is the Lab 5's greatest strength. It's remarkable ability to simply "blend" into a room. Perhaps almost ANY room and just be forgotten altogether. The combination of ALT, ABL and the automatic calibration functions all come together to produce this spectacular feat in my opinion. Another often forgotten point that I think aids the Lab 5's overall presentation is that it is almost a FOUR way rather than traditional three-way design, carefully crossing over from the 15, to the 8 inch mid, to the upper mid ALT and treble ALT. It is a clear case where more technology does NOT impede the musicality of the speaker, it most certainly HELPS it. Many audiophiles swear off DSPs and such, but if you want a truly versatile sound system, that can handle wherever you choose to put it, it is absolutely the best way. I could theoretically create a similar (but not perfect) situation for the 802s with something like the McIntosh MEN220 room calibration system, but that system requires you to place Microphones in a few areas by hand, and costs roughly $5,000.00.
So, I hope my answer was not too wordy, but there you have it. For those wondering, the answer for me is that I find that while the 802 is a world-class speaker in ideal conditions, not everyone HAS ideal conditions, and thus the Lab 5 just slightly edges it out in my opinion. Lab 5 is an excellent example of technology aiding the listening experience in a very positive way, and a way that is bound to be more useful for far more people. Add in the fact that all of your amplification and DAC are built in and you have to spend NOTHING more on equipment if you don't want to, and the deal becomes even sweeter. Considering that you can get like new late model Lab 5s secondhand now for 15-18k, it makes the value proposition much tougher for the 802 Diamond which costs 15 grand all by ITSELF withOUT equipment.
And speaking of equipment. For those wondering, the source for both speakers was a Classe CP-800 preamplifier (Classe's latest) connected to the Lab 5s via RCA line-in and the 802's amp via balanced XLR (this in theory is actually an advantage, or should have been, for the 802). The amp for the 802s is a Classe CA-5200 and the listening positions for both pairs were damn near identical in the same room.
I do not want to be a douche but the beolab 5 is a four way speaker and the upper bass is a 6.5 inch speaker.
I had the opportunity to hear both speakers in different stores. And almost every where the sellers of B&W speakers knows more about acoustics than B&O sellers. More the often the beolab 5 is placed in corners. The listening area is compromised to. Even if the B&W speakers isn't ideally placed they at least have decent setup. Even if B&O claims that the 5´s can be put any were in the room and produce the same result. That is NOT true. But they often preforms better then the competition when bad placed.
My last observation is that you didn't used the digital coax when auditioned the lab 5. (They rarely do in stores either.) When using a analog signal the 5s has to convert the signal to digital to make the dsp work and afterwards back to analog again. This will not be ideal.
The beolab 5 with the right digital signal and good placement is a phenomenal speaker that is hard to beat.
Wilderwein: I do not want to be a douche but the beolab 5 is a four way speaker and the upper bass is a 6.5 inch speaker. I had the opportunity to hear both speakers in different stores. And almost every where the sellers of B&W speakers knows more about acoustics than B&O sellers. More the often the beolab 5 is placed in corners. The listening area is compromised to. Even if the B&W speakers isn't ideally placed they at least have decent setup. Even if B&O claims that the 5´s can be put any were in the room and produce the same result. That is NOT true. But they often preforms better then the competition when bad placed. My last observation is that you didn't used the digital coax when auditioned the lab 5. (They rarely do in stores either.) When using a analog signal the 5s has to convert the signal to digital to make the dsp work and afterwards back to analog again. This will not be ideal. The beolab 5 with the right digital signal and good placement is a phenomenal speaker that is hard to beat.
A little douchey but all can be forgiven :P.
You are correct that I mis-spoke about the Lab 5's mid-range driver size (probably because I got it mixed up with talking about the 8 inch woofers on the 802D). But I guess I'm not really sure I'm understanding your vehement defense of the Lab 5 when I concluded that for me, it IS the better speaker. You brought up issues of placement and the digital input and such, which are valid points, but none of them really change the outcome, which was PRO Lab 5 to begin with. For what it's worth, my speakers are not in corners, AND I have used the digital input directly from my source. It sounds terrific, but with as good as my preamp is, it doesn't sound all that different to be honest. I've had Lab 5s before and used the digital input exclusively so I know what they are capable of. Though it can NOT currently play hi-res formats which for me is a non-issue, for some it's a BIG issue. And yes, the Lab 5 is a 4 way design, which I mentioned above likely had a positive effect versus the three way design of the 802, despite the same number of drivers (since both 8 inch woofs are dedicated to bass on the 802). My faux pas for saying "more of a 4 way design", for it IS a 4 way design.
I'm not sure if you are trying to implicate that had conditions been perfect the Lab 5 would simply "blow away" the 802D, because I can tell you without question that is just not going to happen. That would be the same type of fanboyism as the 802 guys who say IT should destroy the Lab 5 for reasons like the "sonic characteristics of Class D in the treble", which is conversely not the case, either! Each speaker has a unique character to the way it produces the material it is given, but neither is worlds apart from the other. For B&O, this is quite an achievement. And as a lover of both brands (I actually love B&O more overall) I am glad to see two stellar products that have nothing to give up to the rest of the industry.
I was asked for MY opinion on both speakers, which is exactly what I provided, and I stand by the conclusion.
Wilderwein:I do not want to be a douche but the beolab 5 is a four way speaker and the upper bass is a 6.5 inch speaker. I had the opportunity to hear both speakers in different stores. And almost every where the sellers of B&W speakers knows more about acoustics than B&O sellers. More the often the beolab 5 is placed in corners. The listening area is compromised to. Even if the B&W speakers isn't ideally placed they at least have decent setup. Even if B&O claims that the 5´s can be put any were in the room and produce the same result. That is NOT true. But they often preforms better then the competition when bad placed. My last observation is that you didn't used the digital coax when auditioned the lab 5. (They rarely do in stores either.) When using a analog signal the 5s has to convert the signal to digital to make the dsp work and afterwards back to analog again. This will not be ideal. The beolab 5 with the right digital signal and good placement is a phenomenal speaker that is hard to beat.
Barry Santini: Wilderwein: I do not want to be a douche but the beolab 5 is a four way speaker and the upper bass is a 6.5 inch speaker. I had the opportunity to hear both speakers in different stores. And almost every where the sellers of B&W speakers knows more about acoustics than B&O sellers. More the often the beolab 5 is placed in corners. The listening area is compromised to. Even if the B&W speakers isn't ideally placed they at least have decent setup. Even if B&O claims that the 5´s can be put any were in the room and produce the same result. That is NOT true. But they often preforms better then the competition when bad placed. My last observation is that you didn't used the digital coax when auditioned the lab 5. (They rarely do in stores either.) When using a analog signal the 5s has to convert the signal to digital to make the dsp work and afterwards back to analog again. This will not be ideal. The beolab 5 with the right digital signal and good placement is a phenomenal speaker that is hard to beat. My BS9000 is directly connected via SPDIF coax to my BL5's. Phenomenal.
My BS9000 is directly connected via SPDIF coax to my BL5's. Phenomenal.
So before this thread just goes completely off the rails, does anyone have any actual insight into the questions I asked?
Haha ......hahahaha .......playdrv4me .......you help people start a very interesting topics, that's the reason serials will be forgot ....
Are you looking for this list?
http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46053&PN=1&TPN=1
Please scroll a bit down.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
picada: Haha ......hahahaha .......playdrv4me .......you help people start a very interesting topics, that's the reason serials will be forgot ....
I know, I know! It comes along with my diverse electronics love... 1980s and '90s vintage Sony equipment, Bowers and Wilkins and McIntosh and old and new B&O. It's tough sometimes to juggle all the communities and topics and comparisons. But I meet great people in each. I wouldn't really be into B&O as much if the community here wasn't as great as they are.
Millemissen: Are you looking for this list? http://www.hifi4all.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46053&PN=1&TPN=1 Please scroll a bit down. MM
Millemissen you are a lifesaver as always! Thank you for this. My primary goal was to be sure that when/if I list these (they are no doubt growing on me again) I could be completely honest in my description of the production timeframe. According to that link 23xxxxx is 2013/14 and since these are 239 they are no doubt at the latter end of that production schedule and indeed recently "off the presses".
As for the syncr. cable, I suppose I will just order one from Steve and see if it works.
Dear Playdrv4me.
Im sorry for my "harsh" answer. But first and foremost. The cable you remember as the sync cable is the microphone cable for the calibration. The sync port is just above this cable and port. And the cable Steve has will work.
Of course the BL5 will not crush the B&W 802D. We are talking about two really good speakers and in this range of speakers we have to bare in mind that all differences are nuances. Whats making me rate the 5s over B&W are power respons. To me a speaker sounds more lifelike if it has goos power respons. It is more easy for me to say that this is a pair of speakers rather then music playing by musicians when listening to them.
Wilderwein: Dear Playdrv4me. Im sorry for my "harsh" answer. But first and foremost. The cable you remember as the sync cable is the microphone cable for the calibration. The sync port is just above this cable and port. And the cable Steve has will work. Of course the BL5 will not crush the B&W 802D. We are talking about two really good speakers and in this range of speakers we have to bare in mind that all differences are nuances. Whats making me rate the 5s over B&W are power respons. To me a speaker sounds more lifelike if it has goos power respons. It is more easy for me to say that this is a pair of speakers rather then music playing by musicians when listening to them.
No harm done. I understand where you're coming from now and I don't have any disagreement with you on that important point.
Thank you for the answer to the sync cable question as well!
Regarding serial numbers, my new BeoLab 5s arrived today.. The serial numbers start 2409XXXX.
D
Doonesbury: Regarding serial numbers, my new BeoLab 5s arrived today.. The serial numbers start 2409XXXX. D
Prepare yourself for auditory bliss.
And that sounds right in line with what I expected. These were awarded to the PO at the beginning of 2014 so that sounds chronologically spot on to me.
Playdrv4me: Wilderwein: I do not want to be a douche but the beolab 5 is a four way speaker and the upper bass is a 6.5 inch speaker. I had the opportunity to hear both speakers in different stores. And almost every where the sellers of B&W speakers knows more about acoustics than B&O sellers. More the often the beolab 5 is placed in corners. The listening area is compromised to. Even if the B&W speakers isn't ideally placed they at least have decent setup. Even if B&O claims that the 5´s can be put any were in the room and produce the same result. That is NOT true. But they often preforms better then the competition when bad placed. My last observation is that you didn't used the digital coax when auditioned the lab 5. (They rarely do in stores either.) When using a analog signal the 5s has to convert the signal to digital to make the dsp work and afterwards back to analog again. This will not be ideal. The beolab 5 with the right digital signal and good placement is a phenomenal speaker that is hard to beat. A little douchey but all can be forgiven :P. You are correct that I mis-spoke about the Lab 5's mid-range driver size (probably because I got it mixed up with talking about the 8 inch woofers on the 802D). But I guess I'm not really sure I'm understanding your vehement defense of the Lab 5 when I concluded that for me, it IS the better speaker. You brought up issues of placement and the digital input and such, which are valid points, but none of them really change the outcome, which was PRO Lab 5 to begin with. For what it's worth, my speakers are not in corners, AND I have used the digital input directly from my source. It sounds terrific, but with as good as my preamp is, it doesn't sound all that different to be honest. I've had Lab 5s before and used the digital input exclusively so I know what they are capable of. Though it can NOT currently play hi-res formats which for me is a non-issue, for some it's a BIG issue. And yes, the Lab 5 is a 4 way design, which I mentioned above likely had a positive effect versus the three way design of the 802, despite the same number of drivers (since both 8 inch woofs are dedicated to bass on the 802). My faux pas for saying "more of a 4 way design", for it IS a 4 way design. I'm not sure if you are trying to implicate that had conditions been perfect the Lab 5 would simply "blow away" the 802D, because I can tell you without question that is just not going to happen. That would be the same type of fanboyism as the 802 guys who say IT should destroy the Lab 5 for reasons like the "sonic characteristics of Class D in the treble", which is conversely not the case, either! Each speaker has a unique character to the way it produces the material it is given, but neither is worlds apart from the other. For B&O, this is quite an achievement. And as a lover of both brands (I actually love B&O more overall) I am glad to see two stellar products that have nothing to give up to the rest of the industry. I was asked for MY opinion on both speakers, which is exactly what I provided, and I stand by the conclusion.
Thank you for your very detailed replies and comparisons. I, for one, really enjoyed the read. I will be updating from my BL9s to BL5s when I move into a larger home. For the moment, in a flat, the BL9s seem more sensible. I am already looking forward to the day of BL5 ownership as it does sound like a truly brilliant speaker from B&O. Thanks again for these great posts.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
I hope so. After the past several weeks, I need a LOT of bliss.
I'm not hooking them up to a B & O system so I had to add some functions to the Beo4 remote. I hope to get the speakers going tomorrow after work when I have some time.
Considering what they are replacing, I'm expecting the skies to part (figuratively, as they're in the basement).