ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
First of all, hello to everyone on Beoworld. My setup at home is a BV10-40, BC2, Bl8000, Bl4000 and Bl2. I'm planning of buying an Avant-55 and a new set of frontspeakers. Therefore my dealer gave me a set of Bl18 and Bl 20 for this weekend to try and listen. My rears are Bl4000 and I want to leave it that way.I thought perhaps You can appreciate when I share my findings
First I had a go with music. My taste is progressive rock for the most, but I also listen to pop and classic. My first one was False awakening suite and Illumination theory of DreamTheater. The Bl 18 were a huge difference according to Bl8000. A lot more mid's, a better balance of high and much more low's. This was on medium volume. On very high volume the low's fade a bit away and were a bit distorted, mid's and high stayed sharp and nice to listen to. Really no need for a subwoofer at low and medium volume. On high I turned on my Bl2 and there it was. Very clean and tight bass. I don't know why, but it's differend from the combo wih Bl8000. No wobbly sound to my ears
Then I turned on the Bl20. Very tight and clean sound. Nice spread and crisp sound.Perhaps a bit to crisp for my appreciation. The Bl18's were warmer. On very very high volume they were still clean and tight, the bass was much better than it was with the Bl18. So on average and high volume the Bl18 ( plus Bl2 ) and the Bl20 were almost on par.
Next was Vivaldi's The Four Seasons. For me here were the BL18's definitely the winners. However, It's all a matter of personal choise. To me the Bl20's weren't warm enough, to crisp. But do not exaggerate this, they do a marvelous job, but just not for my taste.
Then there was some "boom"music Delerium with Silence. This was really fun. The Bl20's with there immense power bass, were absolute winners. Turn on the volume and go. Very tight, crisp and good solid bass. This kind of music should be played like the Bl20's perform. Again, on average volume the BL18's were very good, but on high the BL2 did a good job, better than with the BL8000, but not quite as good as the bass of the BL20.
Than there was Lord of the Rings, The return of the King. This was why Bl20 was created in my mind. Without a sub, you can shake your windows, move the earth, just as with the Bl2. The crisp sound is very good for movie's, every dialog can be heard precisely. Really fun to look and listen to. However, the Bl18 + Bl2 were almost on par. The spread of Bl20 was slightly better. But it was a perfect experience. You really need the BL2, the Bl18 is just not strong enough for movie's to get it shaking.
So, on the whole, when you have BL2, i really think there is no need to spent that extra 4K on buying the BL20. For me with music the Bl18 were the best, so adding a BL2 for movies, give you that extra dimension. On the other hand, the Bl20 look stunning in the flesh. Better than the 9's, personal choise!, and much better than the picture's. Very good on music, extreem with movies. You can't go wrong on either of these two.
Cheers.
Hi meBeeh,
welcome to Beoworld.
That is the kind of posts I like on Beoworld.
Thanks
I imagine a set of the BL18 with the BL19 would be even better than with the BL2?
Anyone tried that comparison?
Greetings Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
BeoNut since '75
I've heard the 19's in the shop with the BL17. Great with music, but no match for the BL2 in movies. I think they are between the BL11 and BL2. Further more I find the BL19 ugly, but that's me.
I haven't read the entire post (time is pressing), but I believe my BL18s do not need a sub and others have commented in the same way. Bear in mind I've owned BL3s, BL9s and even BL5s, before making that comment.
I was listening to the BL18s at the weekend and they are, frankly, superb. You do hear a relatively high frequency from them, but unlike my BL3s which are enhanced by the addition of a BL11 sub, the BL18s can stand on their own, even with electronic music.
I have listened to the BL19s with a BL20, but felt that it muddied the sound somewhat. The BL18s lost some of that high and bright frequency I'm used to.
On a sidenote, I've owned a BL2 and didn't find it enjoyable for music, at all. Great for movies, less so as a sub for music.
We have Lab 17, 18, 19 and 20 connected to an 11-46 with all combinations of speaker groups programmed in.
Personally, I think the 18s on their own are superb, but adding in the 19 gets close to 20s.
The 19 remains dormant when used with 20s.
The 19 is a much better speaker for music than the 2, and I think marginally better with movies....
These are just my opinions, as we know sound is very subjective!
I guess it depends a great deal on which BV they are connected to.
The 'bas management' of the new BV's might make a great differce in how BL18/BL2 vs BL18/BL19 performes - apart from all influences from the room etc.
MM
I do notice something interesting, in that the OP mentioned that there was something altogether *different* about the combination of the BL18s with the BL2 versus the BL8000s with the BL2. Perhaps they are better crossed over, because I can say with certainty that every speaker I tried the BL2 with, including the 8000s and BL1s, the BL2 was pretty bad. I don't watch movies at home much (I always visit the cinema for new flicks) but I do listen to music, and the BL2 was a sloooowpoke and rather boomy when it came to the task.
I have not heard more pleasing bass from a BeoLab than the 5, *maybe* the 9 which I haven't spent more time with than at a dealer, and surprisingly, the Penta IIIs we have still hold their own. For my brother, who likes a considerably amount of "thump" from his dance music, I actually added a small pioneer receiver/amplifier, a crossover unit, and a small subwoofer I had lying around the house from that other "B" company we will not mention here, to the Pentas/9500 at his place and it's actually a very pleasing combination as the sub is actually a very small one which crosses over with the Pentas nicely. But they absolutely do not need it.
I'm sure the 20 is a wonderful speaker, but unless you absolutely have to have WiSA, you can get like new BL5s for just a few grand (US) more these days and have what is (for now) the ultimate B&O music experience, if not amongst the ultimate in the world.
For my own curiosity, I am also still wondering if someone can look at the data plate/sticker on their Lab 20s and see where they are making them now.
Thanks for a great review MrBeeh and a warm welcome to the forum. I have the 9s and bought them over the 20s, but that decision was based on price and styling, the latter of which I prefer over the 20s. Having said that, the sound of the 20s is amazing and at first I thought I was listening to a pair of 5s. The 18s are definitely an improvement over the 8000s as one would expect I suppose, but again, I don't really like the look. The new range of speaker styling does not really appeal to me apart from the 17s which I really like a lot. Sound wise they are all improvements over their predecessors for sure. I do like the fact they are wireless and I am sure that will also play a big part when someone is looking to upgrade. Enjoy your new setup, whichever route you choose.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
You really don't need a sub with the Bl18's unless you want to play your music very, very loud. And yes, to my ears, the Bl2 does a better job. Keep in mind that the settings for the Bl2 are minimal for that moment, just enough to support the low's of the Bl18.
Regarding the Bl20's I think the difference with Bl5 has closed the huge gap. Sure, the BL5 are more powerfull, but even in a big living, you can fill it with very loud music with Bl20's. Soundwise i'm not sure if the Bl5 are that much better that it can justify to buy old BL5's instead of brand new Bl20's. Than there is design, for me Bl5 is to big and spacy, the 20's are much more easy to fit into your taste of design.
I think it is very difficult to find the "right" set-up for everyone, because people have different listening tastes and most of all DIFFERENT rooms.
I personally have a pretty large living room with very high ceilings. My BL18s definitely need a sub in that room, even at medium volume. I tried my BL2 and my BL19 in combination with the BL18s and I prefer the BL19. The bass has more punch to it, and sounds more precise when listening to music. For movies the BL2 might be slightly better.
Beovision 11-55, Beovision 10-46, Beovision 7-40, Beocenter 6-23, Beosound 9000, Beolab 18, Beolab 19, 2xBeolab 3, Beolab 8000, Beolab 6000, Beolab 2, Beocom 6000, Beosound 3, Playmaker
MrBeeh: You really don't need a sub with the Bl18's unless you want to play your music very, very loud. And yes, to my ears, the Bl2 does a better job. Keep in mind that the settings for the Bl2 are minimal for that moment, just enough to support the low's of the Bl18. Regarding the Bl20's I think the difference with Bl5 has closed the huge gap. Sure, the BL5 are more powerfull, but even in a big living, you can fill it with very loud music with Bl20's. Soundwise i'm not sure if the Bl5 are that much better that it can justify to buy old BL5's instead of brand new Bl20's. Than there is design, for me Bl5 is to big and spacy, the 20's are much more easy to fit into your taste of design.
Design is subjective, but I find the BL20 a bland and rather uninspired design to be frank. The BL18 build upon a solid design foundation and look fantastic and truly high end as a result. Sound-wise, you are still talking about an inbuilt DAC, inbuilt DSP and the room microphone bass calibration system, 4-way vs 3-way design, more power etc. There may not be a *big* gap in sound quality between the two, but I have no doubt there is a gap no less. For those that want the nth degree of sound and not just looks, the BL5 exists. It competes not just with pretty speakers, but with some of the best in the world, period. I heard it said on here in another thread that the 20 gets to 80 percent of the BL5 level or something, and of course in the world of high end audio, it wouldn't matter if it was 90 percent, there's still something more to be achieved. And it's not all about how "loud" you can turn it up which seems to be a pervasive measure of quality over here.
However, I guess we will see if the "new" B&O, now getting into the business of DJ branded headphones merely decides to leave the BL20 at the top because it's "good enough" and quietly withdraw the BL5 at some point because they no longer see that as a market they want to play in, nor support the production cost of such a device. I think we're all fully expecting a BL5 equivalent to come along like the BL20, and hopefully it does so. It's certainly been a rather lonely almost a dozen years at the top for the BL5, it's coming close to surpassing its older relative the Penta, which existed for 13 years at the top of the heap. Though the Penta had numerous revisions and even a non-powered version during its reign. Aside from a lack of PIN code security and sync functionality, and a beefier power connector back then, the BL5 has withstood virtually identical to its debut. So I just think it's not as easy as dismissing and tossing it aside as a potential option because the BL20 is "almost" as good, when it exists as such a tantalizing option at not much more cost right now. I do understand that for some the size can overpower a room and that can present a problem, though I remember many being surprised at just how *small* the BL5 were compared to expectations when they finally came out and replaced the BL1.