ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Have Apple gone totally crazy? I for one like to buy a download and would never want to 'rent' my music. Apple to end iTunes downloads in 2 years time!!!
http://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/11/apple-ending-itunes-music-downloads/
MAYBE, this will be the resurrection of the CD and we'll see B&O introduce CD players again. Not owning a music collection is not a nice idea!
It's a hard lesson for some but Apple have never done anything for their customers, only ever for themselves, yet still they queue!
Ban boring signatures!
I'm not sure how I feel about this. I never purchased much from iTunes because I wanted to keep my "mp3" collection to a minimum, but it was nice to get a song or two on the spot because you were talking about it with someone. I hope this may give a resurgence for the CD as that is my perferred way to listen to music, ripped in AIFF. My only music streaming was with TuneIn for the Essence and A6, but TuneIn just dropped all my stations with the Sony law suit against Radionomy.
Being honest Puncher, I realised that when the Apple Watch, BEATS sale and Apple Music launched. They make great laptops but i've had so many software issues with iOS since 8.
The thought of people streaming music and never really owning anything saddens me. Renting anything is for mugs! The minute you stop paying, it's gone!
Mark, I use iTunes as I tend to buy individual tracks rather than albums. Oh well, at least we've got Amazon & Google PLAY.
I also seem to buy a CD version of all time favourite tracks. I don't know why as I rip it as both a Apple Lossless and a 320AAC but it's hard to describe, but it kind of feels nice to know that you've always got it as a back up.
This also means that WE'LL NEVER SEE LOSSLESS or 24BIT Downloads from iTunes. Makes you question how safe it is to buy a iTunes film considering it has DRM!!!
Interesting times, could this be the new life for physical media? Maybe, just maybe, you guys WILL see a new BeoSound 9000!!! Just think, no more software issues!!!!!!!!!!!
Before people go off the deep in castigating Apple for one reason or another, please know that this story is coming from MacRumors, and an update to it clearly says Apple has commented it is NOT TRUE.
I never begin to believe any Apple "rumors" until Jon Gruber mentions something about it on Daring Fireball, or Jim Dalrymple on The Loop.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Kodak. Nokia. Apple?
who knows how soon we will look back and wonder why we accepted the way Apple lent us the media we once again wanted to physically own?
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
I don't want to rent. I buy CDs and I buy digital music downloads if I need it fast and want to listen to it until the CD arrives or if it's simply not available on CD.Very often I have the impression that the world does NOT know that Apple ist not the only source of hardware, software, music etc. on this planet!Apple is pure dictatorship hidden behind a nearly perfect marketing machine. If Apple decides to only charter music... I don't care. I'll buy my CDs as long as possible and I enjoy free internetradio withouth the need to pay for spotify, deezer etc. etc.
http://www.recode.net/2016/5/11/11660982/apple-itunes-music-downloads-not-true
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Paul W: Have Apple gone totally crazy? I for one like to buy a download and would never want to 'rent' my music. Apple to end iTunes downloads in 2 years time!!! http://www.macrumors.com/2016/05/11/apple-ending-itunes-music-downloads/
It won't make any difference to me (if that is true) - never bought any of their downloads!
Streaming is the way to go - can't take it with me 'yonder' anyway ;-)
P.S. If I wanted to pay to own, I'd buy the physical media.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Apple stated the rumors are not true. Can't imagne actually.
Millemissen: It won't make any difference to me (if that is true) - never bought any of their downloads! Streaming is the way to go - can't take it with me 'yonder' anyway ;-) P.S. If I wanted to pay to own, I'd buy the physical media. MM
MM, Apple allows you to play back all your purchased music from the cloud as well, in other words : streaming for "free".The other kind of streaming means paying a monthly fee for it, and that can sound cheap but it would cost you around 15 000 usd for an average adult life - per service - to hold on to your music - which is gone as soon as you stop paying. No more vintage sales or music to inherit.
Films and TV series are chalk and cheese compared to music. TV series, you maybe watch once, so streaming is fine, the same with films - you rent them and then buy them if you love them.
A think music though is very music like reading. It's a passion and it's something that you do build a collection from. It's real.
Paying a subscription to 'rent' music on a streaming service horrifies me. It's renting. It's never there as yours! You're a consumer rather than a music lover. That's the difference. It's shallow, truly shallow as there's no soul in doing it that way.
If downloads were to stop, it would be a very interesting segment. CD players would probably re-appear as you'd have just two retail markets - CD/Vinyl and streaming (plus illegal downloads).
I hate anything that you have to pay for but never own - it's pointless to me. Same with Adobe and their software, a high monthly sub - I don't deal with them anymore.
Renting and never owning anything but constantly paying out money for is just mindless.
Probably the best idea at the moment is Amazon were you can buy the CD and you get a free download of the album - great to use whilst waiting for the CD to arrive to rip in any format that you truly want! Plus now in the UK, the CD is often cheaper than the iTunes download!!!
I agree with Michael. Michael is for sharing. Apple Music is £10 a month in the UK for what? A radio station? It's gone the minute you stop paying? But for what??????? Go to Youtube and watch the HD and download it if you love it. But seriously, why would you rent??? I'd rather buy 10-12 iTunes/Amazon/Google/Beatport single downloads which I can keep and give to friends :)
TWG I agree with your comments and yes, since the Apple watch etc, I realise that about Apple. Damn shareholders greed I guess!
Maybe the guy who posted about B&O bringing back vintage hifi actually had a point. With the hate from the B&O Moment and shallowness of the cloud world, will people turn their backs on computer technology for music & video and go back to physical formats. The 100th Anniversary B&O 5000 series and Ouverture may just happen...
Exciting but bizarre times in the music world! Will we see a BluRay HD disc that holds hundreds of 24bit tracks or a new disc music standard? Who knows.
Personally, I think this rumour was 100% true. It was Apple testing the waters. It was doing market research!
Reminds of the "trial balloons" politicians float to friendly press to test out public reaction to controversial ideas. The iTunes idea didn't just come from some bored mischief maker.
Seems like Apple was just testing this idea, saw the pushback and quickly sought to extinguish the fire before it caused real damage.
Paul W: Personally, I think this rumour was 100% true. It was Apple testing the waters. It was doing market research! Reminds of the "trial balloons" politicians float to friendly press to test out public reaction to controversial ideas. The iTunes idea didn't just come from some bored mischief maker. Seems like Apple was just testing this idea, saw the pushback and quickly sought to extinguish the fire before it caused real damage.
I agree. Apple is testing public reaction to this and the idea of no longer having the plug for headphones. Headphones would use the lightning port on the iPhone resulting in a thinner iPhone and better sound in the DAC enabled headphone. I think these things will ultimately happen but not this year. I am hoping that Apple will entice customers with lossless streaming in Apple Music. I love Apple Music and don't mind the $10 a month. I did stop the subscription for about two months but when I restarted subscribing, all the music came back. All my devices work well with Apple Music including Apple watch. In a few months, I am planning on selling or donating my CDs, That will be one less thing in storage.
Bang and Olufsen should get out of the music player business, They don't do software very well and the future will find them left behind. I love B&O other products especially the speakers. I must admit though with so few stores in the US, it is becoming difficult to maintain my enthusiasm for the brand.
I purchase Beoplay products from Amazon because it is easier and I can return products I don't like without question.
Paul W: I agree with Michael. Michael is for sharing. Apple Music is £10 a month in the UK for what? A radio station? It's gone the minute you stop paying? But for what??????? Go to Youtube and watch the HD and download it if you love it. But seriously, why would you rent??? I'd rather buy 10-12 iTunes/Amazon/Google/Beatport single downloads which I can keep and give to friends :)
There's so much more to, say, Spotify than just "renting music". For £10 a month you access thousands and thousands of artists and albums and can listen to any of them without commitment. No more buying a track or album that you get bored of shortly after. You can try and try new music endlessly if you want. Or alternatively listen to your favourite music whenever you want.
"Owning" music is simply the traditional way of doing things. On my BS5 I have ripped CDs and Spotify. There is no advantage to owning a ripped CD compared to streaming through Spotify. Sure, if you only "buy" or listen to a few tracks or a limited selection of music "buying" will be cheaper than £10 a month. But for broader listening habits streaming makes perfect sense.
Before streaming I used to spend far more than £10 a month on CD's and downloads. Paying £10 a month will save me a fortune.
(I'm not so sure that giving downloads to friends complies with the iTunes T&Cs)
As an unabashed Mac-Evangelist from back in the System 6 days (early 90s), here are my thoughts:
If this was truly Apple testing the waters, they learned pretty quickly that this would be a terrible idea for their brand. Sheesh, why they needed affirmation of said terrible-ness is beyond me.
As perhaps an old-fogie when it comes to music, I want to "own" my media, and not be beholden to an internet connection to listen to my music or watch my videos. I know I'm becoming extinct with that frame of mind, and I'm not even 40 yet. LOL.
Having read that post Im off upstairs to put on some vinyl and give the CDs a night off
Yes but Duels with streaming it's never yours! It's never a collection. At least if you spend £10 on downloads you've got them to keep. To me, thats important - it has a purpose, it has depth. I think relying on the internet even for streaming music is a bad thing. The minute that I cancelled my Netflix last February, that was it, my film playlist was gone. Same with SKY, I can't watch things that I recorded 6 years ago because I cancelled my SKY in 2012 and they disabled the box! Renting is just horrible - its shallow and in a way, its the way of the shallow modern world of today. I chose not to be a part of that!
I'm with Sal and Valve1 on this and judging by over 700 comments on MacRumors, all of their readers seem to be.
Paul W: Yes but Duels with streaming it's never yours! It's never a collection. At least if you spend £10 on downloads you've got them to keep. To me, thats important - it has a purpose, it has depth. I think relying on the internet even for streaming music is a bad thing. The minute that I cancelled my Netflix last February, that was it, my film playlist was gone. Same with SKY, I can't watch things that I recorded 6 years ago because I cancelled my SKY in 2012 and they disabled the box! Renting is just horrible - its shallow and in a way, its the way of the shallow modern world of today. I chose not to be a part of that! I'm with Sal and Valve1 on this and judging by over 700 comments on MacRumors, all of their readers seem to be.
Seems like a remarkably old fashioned "pipe and slippers" kind of attitude there.
I find I still use both. I tend to buy music I want in permanent play lists I curate myself, but there no mistaking the utility of streaming. Just recently, I watched a documentary on analogy synthesizers. Reminded me of several artists, and albums, including Switched On Bach and Silver Apples Of The Moon, then Tomita just died recently. I went to Spotify and listened to Silver Apples and Bach, and found out that not only had the Bach not aged well, to my current ear it sounded trite and uninspired, whereas my opinion about Silver Apples and Tomita hadn't changed, I found both boring and unmusical. So, ordinarily I'd have sprung for at least three albums to find out I didn't like any of them, whereas I was able to do it for my monthly fee on Spotify. And Spotify introduces me a lot of new music, new artists, and such. So to me it's not an either/or situation, nor never will be I think.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
When I went over to the Apple side over 10 years ago, they were on the cutting edge of music. Airplay was the greatest advancement to me. Having my music on a central computer and able to play anything on any system with an Airport Express or a first generation Apple TV was wonderful. Apple was the only game in town for that as far as I knew.
That was then and things have changed, especially at Apple.
Apple is a business that survives by making money. They are focusing on a new customer base now and if they decided that their iTunes download portion is not as profitable as they need it to be then I wouldn't have an issue with that. I would hope that there is another entity out there that wants to cater to a market I am part of and fill in the gap with music that people want to own. Amazon is ok for local music, but nowhere as good as iTunes in the world-wide market.
What is disturbing to me is the growing attitude people are developing. All things traditional has to be done away with, and if it isn't of any worth to them then the options shouldn't be available to anyone. It's nice to see that there is still a large market for owned music libraries and higher resolution music.
At least I can play my music if my internet is down or if I am somewhere I don't have an internet connection! It is annoying to have to validate my Apple TV purchases before I can watch them for the reason above. This isn't the future for me.
Getting back to B&O for a bit, give me an updated Beosound 5 type of device, with Network Link, local storage of my music, self contained, not even MOTS or MoodWeel or Pattern-play, just store my music and let me quickly access it with a robust search feature. I won't have to rely on my home's server backbone, an internet connection, etc... and the next thing you'll hear from me is "TAKE MY MONEY!!!"
When I say Beosound 5 type of device, I don't necessarily mean the exact UI or form factor, just conceptually, but that being said, I really wouldn't mind an updated BS5.
Sal:Getting back to B&O for a bit, give me an updated Beosound 5 type of device, with Network Link, local storage of my music, self contained, not even MOTS or MoodWeel or Pattern-play, just store my music and let me quickly access it with a robust search feature. I won't have to rely on my home's server backbone, an internet connection, etc... and the next thing you'll hear from me is "TAKE MY MONEY!!!" When I say Beosound 5 type of device, I don't necessarily mean the exact UI or form factor, just conceptually, but that being said, I really wouldn't mind an updated BS5.
Sal: Getting back to B&O for a bit, give me an updated Beosound 5 type of device, with Network Link, local storage of my music, self contained, not even MOTS or MoodWeel or Pattern-play, just store my music and let me quickly access it with a robust search feature. I won't have to rely on my home's server backbone, an internet connection, etc... and the next thing you'll hear from me is "TAKE MY MONEY!!!" When I say Beosound 5 type of device, I don't necessarily mean the exact UI or form factor, just conceptually, but that being said, I really wouldn't mind an updated BS5.
I would jump on an offering like this from B&O also, especially if it can take any external hard drive. I would love this for music and video, but a local dealer tells me that video libraries are a huge problem to support, so I would take B&O for music and keep iTunes for videos if that is what it takes. I wouldn't mind being free from iTunes though!
I guess it won't be a problem video wise if the file was a MP4 which is what I use. If its a DRM movie, put it into Handbrake and make a DRM Free copy :) I think seriously, it's too much to ask for B&O to make this as software from them is a complete nightmare - look at the Moment thread - 18months on! The world of HiFi just seems to be even more unstable each year. It's safer to make great loudspeakers.
Mark N I agree and some traditional things will never die - my obsession for books grows every day!!! Currently, I'm obsessed with vintage surfing photography. AND, just look at the bicycle industry now! A few years back some old men would buy 2 seater sports cars which have seriously gone out of style in 2016 as people become educated on the environment, oil greed, pollution etc and now, they are getting fit and riding beautiful carbon fibre bikes instead whilst they loose their fat and get lean and healthy at the same time! And look at the lovely retro A1 B&O speaker :)
When you purchase music, books, or movies in electronic form providers such as iTunes, Amazon, or others, you agree to the EULA or End User License Agreement. This means that you actually have purchased a license to use that content as much as you want but you do not own it. This is US federal law but the terms of the EULA are most likely different in other countries. It is usually the same with software.
I like vinyl LPs too. it appears reel to reel tape is making a return. At the Munich show, it was announced that Revox will be selling a reel to reel tape player. No price was quoted. I have my limits.
It will be interesting to see what happens. My hope is that Bang and Olufsen survives. However there is a lot of change coming.
WOW Linder brings back memories of the Redox B77. My friend had one, it was amazing!!! A real work of art!
linder:When you purchase music, books, or movies in electronic form providers such as iTunes, Amazon, or others, you agree to the EULA or End User License Agreement. This means that you actually have purchased a license to use that content as much as you want but you do not own it. This is US federal law but the terms of the EULA are most likely different in other countries. It is usually the same with software.
But in context of the streaming paradigm, you may not "own" the downloaded song but you get to keep it if the provider goes out of business. I don't think that the provider is able to take away your downloaded file because of some event. I have never actually read a EULA but I think the intent is to keep you from giving the download away to all your friends, potentially taking away revenue. There are no EULA's for ripped CD's, but I'm sure the same limitations apply.
I am not against streaming services, for me it would be a great way to discover new music. If I like it enough I will buy the CD and directly support the artist (and label). With subscription services I am supporting every artist in general and not supporting the artists I like the most. I guess in turn that some of Taylor Swift's royalties would go to Rinne Yoshida!
Don't forget that CD´s and other kinds of media usually fails with time. And that you need a clumsy player to play them back. Those units did a good job but now time has passed and CD´s aren't really practical anymore. The earth is getting crowded, and the planet are suffering because of our wasteland of old stuff and crap. Going digital eases this problem. Just imagine all the CDs, DVDs, VHS-tapes etc that isn't being thrown out every day anymore. I think we will see a variety of solutions over the coming years while consumers and industries experiment with different solutions and when we see how we like it best.
Another thing that is equally important is how the music industry has been transformed completely with the introduction of computers and other technology that makes it easy for people to create music, and do it quite professionally - without expensive studios, labels or such.
This means more music are pushed out on the market, so to be able to really listen to most of it - subscription services is a good thing. I don't really have a strong opinion over subscription or paid music but I think it is important to let both markets live on. It's not everything if Apple decides to stop selling music - it is quite understandable since they are engaging in the streaming industry and they do it very successfully. Apple doesn't have to do everything, Amazon or any other places that sells music files will do - I think.
Michael: Don't forget that CD´s and other kinds of media usually fails with time. And that you need a clumsy player to play them back. Those units did a good job but now time has passed and CD´s aren't really practical anymore.
Don't forget that CD´s and other kinds of media usually fails with time. And that you need a clumsy player to play them back. Those units did a good job but now time has passed and CD´s aren't really practical anymore.
Well, I just played a CD I purchased in 1984 and it played fine. I'm not sure how you define practical, but the fact that a CD always has a bit rate of 1,411 kbps and most downloaded or streamed song is 320 kbps or under, and the fact that CD's are usually priced very closed to mp3's I would say they are very practical!
Also in favor of the physical product, at least in Japan there is typically a limited edition bonus of a DVD with music videos or selections from a concert, or an extra CD with music not available anywhere else, or other things. This adds a lot of value for me!
This best-of CD has a bonus CD and bonus DVD!
Mark-N:Also in favor of the physical product, at least in Japan there is typically a limited edition bonus of a DVD with music videos or selections from a concert, or an extra CD with music not available anywhere else, or other things. This adds a lot of value for me! This best-of CD has a bonus CD and bonus DVD!
Aussie Michael:Is she the chick on YouTube that licks everything ?
This is Kyary Pamyu Pamyu. I have never seen her lick anyhting in any of the music videos or concerts I have of her. That seems very much not like her. I have to admit of not watching many YouTube videos though. I sure hope its not her!!!