ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Puncher: Razlaw:Same title, cover art etc. can search for same tracks in both Deezer and Spotify. Sometimes the results match. Sometimes they do not. But even ignoring comparison of the "same" tracks, the Deezer Elite sound quality is vastly superior. But you don't know what EQ, compression (volume) etc each supplier has applied to the track or even if the source tracks are from the same master. It is therefore very difficult to claim superior delivery unless you are certain they are streaming the "same track".
Razlaw:Same title, cover art etc. can search for same tracks in both Deezer and Spotify. Sometimes the results match. Sometimes they do not. But even ignoring comparison of the "same" tracks, the Deezer Elite sound quality is vastly superior.
But even ignoring comparison of the "same" tracks, the Deezer Elite sound quality is vastly superior.
But you don't know what EQ, compression (volume) etc each supplier has applied to the track or even if the source tracks are from the same master. It is therefore very difficult to claim superior delivery unless you are certain they are streaming the "same track".
My point was quite simply that Deezer Elite is lossless. It is not compressed. And it sounds dramatically better than Spotify, which is not lossless.
Just as I can tell that my Beolab 20s sound better than my Beolab 1s, which sound better than my Beolab 4000s, I can also tell that Deezer Elite lossless sounds much better than Spotfy.
I have spent hours listening to Spotify and hours listening to Deezer and the difference is clear. After listening to Spotify for months, upon getting Deezer Elite the improvement in sound was instantly noticeable. I played less than a minute of each for my girldfriend without telling her which was which and she instantly picked out the Deezer due to it's far superior sound.
And yes you are correct that I do not know all the technical details of each piece of music, other than that Deezer is lossless and tracks are streaming in flac. But I do know lossless sounds better than compressed. And Deezer is lossless and sounds better than Spotify.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
I also picked up a crew fron nu dealer that it will be a small speaker with an essence wheel on top. So will have same functionality as essence. Interesting to see bang olufsen brand rather than beoplay.
Razlaw:Interesting article comparing Deezer Elite and Spotify. Lossless v compressed. Corresponds with my experience and conclusions. http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2014/11/24/review-deezer-elite/
http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2014/11/24/review-deezer-elite/
While he may agree with you I'm afraid it would be laughed out of court as an objective review for exactly the reasons stated earlier!!
What would you think of a turntable comparison where one played the studio version of an album and the other played the live version and the reviewer went on to extoll the merits of one turntable over the other based on only that comparison?
Ban boring signatures!
BEOVOX141: Face it guys, streaming is the music industry's version of junk food! Convenient, cheap, fast and everywhere, but very not very nutritious! On top of that, none of them are making a profit, and the ones buying hardware targeted towards specific services, face the real risk of experiencing the inevitable : Service not found! Signing up to streaming simply makes you the krill of the ecosystem!
Face it guys, streaming is the music industry's version of junk food! Convenient, cheap, fast and everywhere, but very not very nutritious!
On top of that, none of them are making a profit, and the ones buying hardware targeted towards specific services, face the real risk of experiencing the inevitable : Service not found!
Signing up to streaming simply makes you the krill of the ecosystem!
This is an argument, which doesn't make sense. Maybe a strange way of comparison, but was that not an equal case with Betamax, VHS, compact cassette, 8-track and other forms of video/audio carriers? We bought ton’s of it and thought it would stay forever. Now its streaming, but who can predict this will be the carrier to last?
Chris Townsend:Lossless isn't some mystical marvel people talk about. It's been out for a few years, and I agree it should be the starting point for a Beosound. To not do so is simply lazy.
Lazy? Those are very cautious words. Probably this new Beosound is a design developed in the Mr. Tue period and now brought forward to the public. I thought from an insight of the new ceo his background, he would add a more valuable software package to this system. Let us finally enjoy the stunning sound of HR streaming services in a premium package. And I know some lossless compressed music sounds not at all well, but was this not the case with some pressed records too? Let our ears decide what sounds best, give us at least the opportunity to choose between the premium or lossless services. Its neglectful.
driehoek:I also picked up a crew fron nu dealer that it will be a small speaker with an essence wheel on top. So will have same functionality as essence. Interesting to see bang olufsen brand rather than beoplay.
If it really has the same functionality as an Essence, what about the Beomusic app? Is B&O really sticking to this silly app to command the new upcoming Beosound. I could place it easily in the top 10 of worst app’s ever, it even don’t work as it should on my Android tab. I know why it’s free.
My only hope is that B&O bring forward a new device worthy of the name Beosound as they did with the latest Beolab’s. Not fixing some sub-brand hardware in a glitzy aluminium case. I remember they once stood together in front with the major players in the market, design wise and in technology. They are easily surpassed now by small firms as Linn, Naim…
Edit: typo it must be HR not HD, corrected now.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
2 remarks:
Higher resolutions are doubted if spoken of Audio, but it is the Walhalla of Video!
I can't comment on the Beomusic App on Android, but on iOS it is working fine. If compared: an iPad and the Essence do a much better job than the Moment (pattern........ and so on even do not justify the extra costs of the Moment)
Puncher: Razlaw:Interesting article comparing Deezer Elite and Spotify. Lossless v compressed. Corresponds with my experience and conclusions. http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2014/11/24/review-deezer-elite/ While he may agree with you I'm afraid it would be laughed out of court as an objective review for exactly the reasons stated earlier!! What would you think of a turntable comparison where one played the studio version of an album and the other played the live version and the reviewer went on to extoll the merits of one turntable over the other based on only that comparison?
See (or rather listen) for yourself - MP3 or Lossless: See If You Can Hear the Difference with This Test
http://lifehacker.com/5903625/mp3-or-lossless-see-if-you-can-hear-the-difference-with-this-test
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Carolpa:2 remarks: Higher resolutions are doubted if spoken of Audio, but it is the Walhalla of Video!
Puncher: While he may agree with you I'm afraid it would be laughed out of court as an objective review for exactly the reasons stated earlier!! What would you think of a turntable comparison where one played the studio version of an album and the other played the live version and the reviewer went on to extoll the merits of one turntable over the other based on only that comparison? Ban boring signatures!
You are completely missing the point. You still seem focused on my initial comment about comparing the "same" tracks. You have remained blissfully oblivious to my comments about the overall sound regardless of the track. If someone said that Beolab 90s sound better to them than a Beoplay A1 would you doubt them, criticize them, and be argumentative with them over their opinion? That is of course an extreme example. But there are also multiple threads in this forum about comparing similar speakers. 4000 v 6000. 18+2 v 9. What is the answer that is almost always given? Listen for yourself and let your ears be the judge. Why is it so hard for you to accept that someone listening to two different streaming services thinks one sounds better than the other?
I note you have not made one single comment indicating that you have ever listened to and compared lossless music to compressed yourself, in general. And no comment that you have ever listened to and compared Deezer Elite and Spotify, specifically. I am sorry it offends you if someone thinks lossless CD quality streaming sounds better than compressed music.
Millemissen:See (or rather listen) for yourself - MP3 or Lossless: See If You Can Hear the Difference with This Test http://lifehacker.com/5903625/mp3-or-lossless-see-if-you-can-hear-the-difference-with-this-test MM
http://lifehacker.com/5903625/mp3-or-lossless-see-if-you-can-hear-the-difference-with-this-test MM
Note: this doesn't say anything about my ability to differentiate between different resolutions, but the higher resolution will hold information which is not exactly available at lower resolution.
Often I find 4K video and above not "natural". It is extremely sharp with extreme colouring, but it is often not how I see the world around me.
Aussie Michael:Thanks for this Does this mean those of us with paid Deezer subscriptions are deezer elite or is that a different level and service ? Thanks in advance
To Aussie Michael....yes, it is a different level of service.
(sorry if duplicate answers appear. I replied twice to you question using my phone but neither responses have appeared. Also have tried to reply using a computer but posts have been sent to moderation)
I am not missing the point at all. I appreciate fully that you prefer the sound of the Deezer stream over Spotify etc.
My point is that your assertion " the improvement in sound with the Deezer lossless is obvious" may be incorrect and that you may prefer it because it has been differently mastered rather than the difference being due to it's lossless nature.
Listen to what you like, I have no axe to grind, I am merely highlighting that before drawing a conclusion regarding the quality of a source we need to be certain the media auditioned is identical (or in the case of a lossy medium, compressed from the reference lossless file, without any overall volume or EQ modification).
Puncher: . My point is that your assertion " the improvement in sound with the Deezer lossless is obvious" may be incorrect and that you may prefer it because it has been differently mastered rather than the difference being due to it's lossless nature.
.
Your statement makes no sense. Using your quotes you focus on the statement "the improvement in sound with Deezer lossless is obvious" then you say that statement may be incorrect, and then say the improvement could be either due to lossless nature or the way it was mastered.
The statement "the improvement in sound with Deezer lossless is obvious" at no point says why the sound is better. It merely says the sound is better. And yet you take issue with it and say it is incorrect.
Your logic would be correct, although the validity of your argument might not be, if the statement were "the improvement in sound with Deezer lossless is obvious, BECAUSE IT IS LOSSLESS" The statement as quoted by you has no such qualifier.
Razlaw: Puncher: . My point is that your assertion " the improvement in sound with the Deezer lossless is obvious" may be incorrect and that you may prefer it because it has been differently mastered rather than the difference being due to it's lossless nature. Your statement makes no sense. Using your quotes you focus on the statement "the improvement in sound with Deezer lossless is obvious" then you say that statement may be incorrect, and then say the improvement could be either due to lossless nature or the way it was mastered. The statement "the improvement in sound with Deezer lossless is obvious" at no point says why the sound is better. It merely says the sound is better. And yet you take issue with it and say it is incorrect. Your logic would be correct, although the validity of your argument might not be, if the statement were "the improvement in sound with Deezer lossless is obvious, BECAUSE IT IS LOSSLESS" The statement as quoted by you has no such qualifier.
Ok - I've lost the will to live!
All - please ignore all my posts in this thread.
I very rarely read this forum. Nice to see that it's still as lovely and full of life and energy and young vibes as ever... such lovely people.
Just like a roaring ocean....
....great waves to surf ;-))
Getting back on topic, I hope B&O's new products aren't all multiroom speakers. There is a market for actual BeoSound "controllers." A la the Moment. I can understand the marketing dept. for B&O thinking that customers can purchase one B&O link speaker for every room of their house, but I really do think (perhaps selfishly so), that B&O would be very successful to add a third music system in addition to the Moment and Essence in their lineup. I mean, how hard is it to add a 1TB SSD in the casing of the Moment and have it be a modern day BS5? Or re-release a BS5 Prime, with Netlink and an SSD for local storage. No need to be beholden to an iPhone app, or 3rd party software for DLNA.
PUH-LEESE B&O are you reading these forums? :-)
Paul W:I very rarely read this forum. Nice to see that it's still as lovely and full of life and energy and young vibes as ever... such lovely people.
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
WISA can communicate between a WISA "Transmitter" and a WISA "Receiver." Therefore, 1 Moment, can communicate with any number of WISA speakers it is "registered" to. One can metaphorically think of WISA as basically "invisible powerlink cables."
As far as I am familiar, one can't have a true "multiroom" experience (able to listen to different sources in different rooms) with only one master (transmitter, like a Moment) and, WISA speakers all over the house -- that requires Network Link / Netlink protocols.
Sal:WISA can communicate between a WISA "Transmitter" and a WISA "Receiver." Therefore, 1 Moment, can communicate with any number of WISA speakers it is "registered" to. One can metaphorically think of WISA as basically "invisible powerlink cables." As far as I am familiar, one can't have a true "multiroom" experience (able to listen to different sources in different rooms) with only one master (transmitter, like a Moment) and, WISA speakers all over the house -- that requires Network Link / Netlink protocols.
Paul W: I very rarely read this forum. Nice to see that it's still as lovely and full of life and energy and young vibes as ever... such lovely people.
- Posting this after your petulant outburst in the SkyTV thred is hilarious!
KMA: Paul W: I very rarely read this forum. Nice to see that it's still as lovely and full of life and energy and young vibes as ever... such lovely people. Do I detect a subtle, almost perfectly veiled hint of sarcasm, given the context of the few latest posts to this thread? Been missing ya!
Do I detect a subtle, almost perfectly veiled hint of sarcasm, given the context of the few latest posts to this thread?
Been missing ya!
Well, that's what happens when your sights are off...try some Kentucky windage.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Jeff:Well, that's what happens when your sights are off...try some Kentucky windage. Jeff Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!
I have a pretty keen sarcasm detector, so yeah!
Thanks for the kind words!
Sal: Getting back on topic, I hope B&O's new products aren't all multiroom speakers. There is a market for actual BeoSound "controllers." A la the Moment. I can understand the marketing dept. for B&O thinking that customers can purchase one B&O link speaker for every room of their house, but I really do think (perhaps selfishly so), that B&O would be very successful to add a third music system in addition to the Moment and Essence in their lineup.
Getting back on topic, I hope B&O's new products aren't all multiroom speakers. There is a market for actual BeoSound "controllers." A la the Moment. I can understand the marketing dept. for B&O thinking that customers can purchase one B&O link speaker for every room of their house, but I really do think (perhaps selfishly so), that B&O would be very successful to add a third music system in addition to the Moment and Essence in their lineup.
Wouldn't the A9 qualify as the 3rd music system or are you not counting it as it is branded under PLAY?
Anyone has any insights whether the upcoming BS1 and BS2 are actually stereo speakers and can be connected to a non-B&O television over line-in?
steve1977:Wouldn't the A9 qualify as the 3rd music system or are you not counting it as it is branded under PLAY?
Whether it is branded "BeoPlay" or B&O" proper hasn't come in to my mind actually. I guess I consider a 3rd music system as a "brains" type of system without an inbuilt speaker (one which a user can connect their own -- not necessarily B&O -- speakers).
But I think I'm being old fashioned and selfish. The Moment doesn't appeal to me for a number of reasons, and the Essence is okay, but can be more user friendly than it currently is. So selfishly, I guess I'd like something in between perhaps. Even a Moment without Pattern Play or the MoodWheel, so that it doesn't have to "analyze" anything, just serve up my music immediately (with local storage even, like an SSD), with the unit's own UI (and robust search features), rather than me having to use the BeoMusic app, is what I'd be looking for.
Got it. Agree that this may be nice. Maybe an Essence MK3 with a USB port to attach an SSD drive? Question is whether it needs a screen to navigate. But then you can argue that this is what the Moment offers or what the Beomusic app is for the Essence.
My personal need would more be around stereo speakers. I hope that the BS1 and BS2 are more than what was called "ipod docks" in the old days. Ideally, they could connect to a B&O, but also to a non-B&O television, but at the same time also play music over NL. In other words, I hope they are more than an aluminium, fancier version of the A6 or A9, but a true stereo speaker pair.
There must be some folks around here with some insights?
steve1977:Maybe an Essence MK3 with a USB port to attach an SSD drive?
Heck, if adding that would allow a robust search feature of the SSD's contents in the BeoMusic App, that's a killer addition to the next generation Essence. Maybe revive the Mac / PC Beo app, to allow music to be transferred to the attached drive, and viola! -- A modern take on the Beosound 5 without breaking the bank!
Sal: steve1977:Maybe an Essence MK3 with a USB port to attach an SSD drive? Heck, if adding that would allow a robust search feature of the SSD's contents in the BeoMusic App, that's a killer addition to the next generation Essence. Maybe revive the Mac / PC Beo app, to allow music to be transferred to the attached drive, and viola! -- A modern take on the Beosound 5 without breaking the bank!
Agree!
Let's see what our B&O friends are thinking of, but this may be the easiest solution for you and many others. I personally am a big DLNA fan, so this would not be what I'd need. But I can imagine, DLNA may be too cumbersome for many to set up.
I just realized one more thing. There is currently no sound system that can connect with WISA speakers, so the only way to get WISA speakers into a multi-room setup is to have them attached to a television. In other words, there is no way to play wireless to any of the BL WISA speakers directly except from a television. It looks like B&O follows to separate approaches for wireless speakers: BL series, which require a BV/Avant to be used wireless. Or BS/A6+9 with NL. If that thinking is right, my hope for a NL BL stereo speakers will probably never happen.
steve1977:There is currently no sound system that can connect with WISA speakers
The Moment can connect directly to WISA speakers using WISA. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. The other approach is to use the Transmitter / Receiver approach for any Beolab speakers for wireless connectivity, but that isn't truly multiroom if all you're doing is using the transmitter / receiver.
steve1977:There is currently no sound system that can connect with WISA speakers, so the only way to get WISA speakers into a multi-room setup is to have them attached to a television.
BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1
Sal: steve1977:There is currently no sound system that can connect with WISA speakers The Moment can connect directly to WISA speakers using WISA. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. The other approach is to use the Transmitter / Receiver approach for any Beolab speakers for wireless connectivity, but that isn't truly multiroom if all you're doing is using the transmitter / receiver.
You are right, the Moment actually allows to connect with WISA. I cannot build a WISA based multi-room setup though. Or does this work? Could I place a pair of BL18 in each room and then play multi-room to how many rooms I'd want using the Moment or even better the Beomusic app?
My question is more broadly why NL has become the standard for mullti-room instead of WISA. It feels like two standards within one eco system?
Maybe it is possible with updates to the WISA protocol and software on the speaker end as well as on the master / head unit end. Maybe there could be software that piggybacks the WISA protocol to assign parameters like rooms or scenes, from the software of the master / head unit which is supplying the source media?
Currently as implemented NL is the protocol by which data (audio, and perhaps someday, video?) is distributed to other master / head units (in other rooms) and WISA is the protocol which simply eliminates traditional speaker cables.