Beolab 4000 vs. 17

Peter:

And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does!

Fortunately B&O isn't dependent on the 'old costumers'.

They have long ago realized, that they must reach out for new costumers.

And new costumers often have different demands.

Some want products like the 4000 etc in a new, fresh way - don't forget that these are WiSA-enabled and that a lot of people actually like the looks of a BL17 or a BL18 with the wooden front very much. 

And other people like the other new products - some would never buy a set of the 8000's, but are much more pleased with a BS2.

The old icons stay, but there is room for all the newer speakers and soundsystem-speakers too.

This is a very individual matter.

At my place old and new coexist - no problem there.

MM

both BL 18 and 18 are nice products...

but..we are talking quality issue of new products...and those are not at B&O price range :(

Will BS Moment and Co. last 25 years ..hmmm ??

 

 

The problem with many of the newer products is that the technology on which they rely is ephemeral. The Beosound 5 is a good example as are the TVs where there is massive development in a short time. The old audio products produce a quality sound that is pretty similar to what you can get today - there are always going to be stand out products which elevate the standard to new levels such as Geoff's Beolab 90 but these are not mainstream. Add to that that source material is probably worse than before and it must make very difficult. Add the fact that consumers these days always seem to want something new and the longevity of old product lines must be a wishful dream for B&O.

It saddens me for instance that the Beocenter 2 lasted for a relatively short time as it was a clever design and offered some clever touches and magic that should always be part of a B&O product. 

marexy:

both BL 18 and 18 are nice products...

but..we are talking quality issue of new products...and those are not at B&O price range :(

Will BS Moment and Co. last 25 years ..hmmm ??

 

 

I have a hard time imagining anything with a lot of software and processors in it lasting 25 years. 8 year old cars now are almost impossible to get electronics modules for, whereas a 100 year old Model T Ford can be repaired. If you know a decent machine shop, any part can be made more easily than a proprietary s/w and firmware setup can be repaired or rebuilt. 5 year old PCs are basically door stops.

While I understand how you can use s/w and such to improve the experience and do things not possible before, the fact you can't get very long lives out of things and that they aren't designed to be repaired just landfilled and move on to the next item really annoys me.

Jeff:

I have a hard time imagining anything with a lot of software and processors in it lasting 25 years. 8 year old cars now are almost impossible to get electronics modules for, whereas a 100 year old Model T Ford can be repaired. If you know a decent machine shop, any part can be made more easily than a proprietary s/w and firmware setup can be repaired or rebuilt. 5 year old PCs are basically door stops.

While I understand how you can use s/w and such to improve the experience and do things not possible before, the fact you can't get very long lives out of things and that they aren't designed to be repaired just landfilled and move on to the next item really annoys me.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

That is an interesting point. Hopefully, reengineering and replacing old boards will be a breeze in the future.

Otherwise most of the modern equipment will be 'doomed'.

Do you have an opinion about the sound of newer tech vs old, I mean modern ICE-powered units vs AB-amplified etc?

For example the 4000.

Peter:

The problem with many of the newer products is that the technology on which they rely is ephemeral. The Beosound 5 is a good example as are the TVs where there is massive development in a short time. The old audio products produce a quality sound that is pretty similar to what you can get today - there are always going to be stand out products which elevate the standard to new levels such as Geoff's Beolab 90 but these are not mainstream. Add to that that source material is probably worse than before and it must make very difficult. Add the fact that consumers these days always seem to want something new and the longevity of old product lines must be a wishful dream for B&O.

It saddens me for instance that the Beocenter 2 lasted for a relatively short time as it was a clever design and offered some clever touches and magic that should always be part of a B&O product.

Peter

I believe that the whole idea with choosing B&O is to avoid ephemeral technology and be able to rest assured that the chosen solution is long-term.

The Beosound 5 was a weird and expensive transition product that should probably never have been launched.

I, too, wonder why the Beocenter 2 was so quickly cancelled.

I may be off here, but I think there would prove to be a demand for a capable, combined CD/DVD/BlueRay-playing streaming capable digital device.

While I don't remember how long the Beicenter 2 lasted, it was moments compared to the Beosound 0verture3000-lineuo. When you consider how long product design used to live with B&O, 4 years for the BL12-series, as I pointed out in another thread, is very short.

Does anyone have a picture of the damping material rot inside Beolab 4000? I have a pair and now Im curious to see how they look inside. And if they have rotten damping material, will it affect sound in a bad way? Maybe its audible if the damping is bad or not? I also wonder where to get replacement damping. Can I buy generic and cut it? 

Jeff:

I have a hard time imagining anything with a lot of software and processors in it lasting 25 years. 8 year old cars now are almost impossible to get electronics modules for, whereas a 100 year old Model T Ford can be repaired. If you know a decent machine shop, any part can be made more easily than a proprietary s/w and firmware setup can be repaired or rebuilt. 5 year old PCs are basically door stops.

While I understand how you can use s/w and such to improve the experience and do things not possible before, the fact you can't get very long lives out of things and that they aren't designed to be repaired just landfilled and move on to the next item really annoys me.

Jeff

Beovirus victim, it's gotten to be too much to list!

This is precisely the reason I am holding back on a pair of exdemo Beolab 90s. Some old and simpler B&O gear can be repaired/serviced easily but the thought of a board going kaput in a BL90 or a drive unit failing concerns me. The boards and DSP is bespoke to B&O and even if some bright spark could cobble it together in 10/15 years from now, they wouldn't have access to the DSP coding to programme the unit. The Eurofighter is kept up in the air as much by the trillions of lines of coding that have been written during testing its wings and engines. I think the days of simple machines repairable years from now is over and I'm wondering if B&O of today will become the doorstop of tomorrow as it's too complicate to fix. When I keep such expensive gear, I keep it pretty much forever and if I ever 'upgrade' the older gear would move to a bedroom/study. The average BL90 owner won't of course be concerned about consigning it to the landfill when it fails if their local B&O dealer shrugs their shoulders.

@Michael

If you decide to wait for 'hearing', what happens - I am sorry, you won't hear it, you won't hear anything - because the speaker just seases playing...period!

My advice is to check these old speaker - do it yourself or let someone do it for you - even if it will cost you a bit (it is not a hard, long-lasting job!)

Just take out/cut out the damping - no replacing needed - before it is too late.

I had one, that died - which cost me a new module (pretty expensive).

And I let the other one be examined.

It could still be saved, since the 'rot-procesess' had not damaged the electronics (yet).

They are playing nicely now - as I expect them to for many year to come.

As for how it looks, I have no pictures - but the dampmaterial simply turns into a sort of grease.

MM

 

New B&O gear might not be as 'long-living' as the old stuff, sure.

But what is the use of the good old BeoSystems, if people never use them?

Hardly anyone pops in a cd anymore and analog/FM radio is getting obsolete and insufficent.

I've seen many still working BS2300/2500Ouverture/300/3200 not being used!.

People want to get rid of them.

You can try to convince people to add a BT receiver/APE/Playmaker or even an Essence to them - but that seems to complicated for a lot of people.

No wonder, that B&O today makes the product, that they do  - times have changed and we change too (because we/some of us want to).

Just think of the popularity of the BT-speakers.

And they will change in the future.

I don't weep over the old/still working, but unused products - I embrace the new possibilities.

(That I am one of those, who understand how to integrate new with old gear, does not change anything there.)

MM

Peter:

And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does!

I read in another that, that you wrote:

'I actually have a Beomaster 5500 under my iMac and it goes to some CX100s .

In addition I feed a DACMagic which attaches to a Beolink PC2 so it can play through the house system by remote using iTunes.

Of course I now use none of this as I have an Amazon Echo and Dot so have voice control of any music I want.

I am investigating just how much of my present system I can get to work via this!'

This is very telling.

I am sure you still adore the old gear and the BM5500 is being used somewhere else, I guess.

A lot of us want to explore new possibilities.

Why shouldn't B&O not take part in this - even if it means that these new products won't have the longevity of the old gear?

MM

StKong:

 

 

Do you have an opinion about the sound of newer tech vs old, I mean modern ICE-powered units vs AB-amplified etc?

 

For example the 4000.

I really don't have any opinions based on side by side listening to help you, sorry! Until recently the nearest B&O dealer to me was about 5 hours away, now it's about an hour or so, and though I've been there the opportunity to compare the older speakers with normal amps to the ICE power ones has not materialized. I do know the ICE powered ones I listened to sounded fine, there wasn't anything that made me go "whoa, what did you do to the speaker" either good or bad. Reliability is the main issue I think, if the 4000's ICE amps are not as reliable, as some have said, that's something to be concerned about. OTOH they are newer and probably won't have foam rot issues.

Most often, in my opinion, people obsess too much over amplifier design, it's not that hard to make a sonically transparent amplifier, so I wouldn't expect them to sound different. Buying from a 2nd life dealer, like our host for the forums here, would make sure you got a nice pair and without foam rot I'd expect, I doubt Lee would knowingly sell anything with any faults to it. To me, the cosmetic issues when dealing with used B&O gear are very important, I can fix the insides a lot more easily than I can refurbish damaged exteriors, and let's fact it, the cosmetics are one of the main reasons we go for B&O.

Millemissen:

Peter:

And of course, therein lies B&O problem! The vintage kit was built to last and it does!

I read in another that, that you wrote:

'I actually have a Beomaster 5500 under my iMac and it goes to some CX100s .

In addition I feed a DACMagic which attaches to a Beolink PC2 so it can play through the house system by remote using iTunes.

Of course I now use none of this as I have an Amazon Echo and Dot so have voice control of any music I want.

I am investigating just how much of my present system I can get to work via this!'

This is very telling.

I am sure you still adore the old gear and the BM5500 is being used somewhere else, I guess.

A lot of us want to explore new possibilities.

Why shouldn't B&O not take part in this - even if it means that these new products won't have the longevity of the old gear?

MM

I completely agree - If I have a problem with B&O, it is the lack of real development in remote control since the high point of the 7000 system. The relying on a numeric keyboard for remote access is unimaginative though I do like the mood wheel on the Moment. The search facility on the moment is, in my opinion, clunky. The B&O I bought when I was younger had a magic to it compared to contemporary products. This is just not there for me now - the Amazon Echo is poor sonically compared to similar B&O products but has some of that magic. I would love a Beosound 2 with a built in echo dot!

 

That is an interesting point. Hopefully, reengineering and replacing old boards will be a breeze in the future.

Otherwise most of the modern equipment will be 'doomed'.

Do you have an opinion about the sound of newer tech vs old, I mean modern ICE-powered units vs AB-amplified etc?

For example the 4000.

The fact that old boards can be repaired or not depends on the willingness of manufacturers to release schematics and part lists when they no longer provide replacement boards. Even boards with SMD components can be repaired with adequate tools. There are plenty of Youtube videos showing how to remove and replace SMD components. But, recent service manuals show only how to diagnose and replace entire defective boards. Those manuals are useless for component level repairs. 

Regards,

Jean

 

 

Anyone have an current opinions on this? I have a pair of BL 4000 and was thinking of swapping them with the 17's.

One reason being everyone that comes over thinks I have a pair of PS3's sitting next to my turntable ;)

 

Severed_Hand_of_Skywalker:

Anyone have an current opinions on this? I have a pair of BL 4000 and was thinking of swapping them with the 17's.

One reason being everyone that comes over thinks I have a pair of PS3's sitting next to my turntable ;)

I much prefer the look of the BL4000s over 17s.  How about some of these to help move away from the PS3 look : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bang-and-Olufsen-Beolab-4000-front-covers-Yellow-Used-j/233614676532?hash=item3664851234:g:vaIAAOSw5r5e4A8j

I’ve literally upgraded from 4000 to 17’s this week, and yes it’s a big step up price wise but they do really deliver in terms of performance. Much much better in my opinion. Not even that far off from my lab 9’s at moderate volumes. 

Even though mine are silver people still think they are PS3's :D

I have both, and I swear to the 4000s. The 17s are objectively a better speaker and the sound image is more distinct.

It is a more modern sound.

I am listening to both models right now in two different rooms. In your case, I would stay with the beautiful ones you already have.

Beolab 4000 is a great speaker in its own right.

I like the look of your setup, by the way.

Aw thank you. Im having a new shelf built for it soon. Maybe it will look less PS3 then :)

Severed_Hand_of_Skywalker:

Anyone have an current opinions on this? I have a pair of BL 4000 and was thinking of swapping them with the 17's.

One reason being everyone that comes over thinks I have a pair of PS3's sitting next to my turntable ;)

--

BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.

!

This’s Funny! They knows of PlayStation but they don’t know BeoLab 4000! Teach them what they’re Missing in Precious Life!