ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Thats good, though i doubt your B&O retailer will ever be able to definitively tell (generic) you what panel is in the Eclipse that they sell you, if for example you ordered one in a few months time.
In the end, there isn't much difference though between the two panels. The Black Frame Insertion seems to be of little help outside of gaming, which just leaves the video processing (tone mapping and motion) as a small improvement over last years.
Unrelated, but I was out for dinner last night with a friend who bought a Loewe which he loves, though he said the sound was nothing special, and is looking to add some Beolabs to his setup. And of course, he mentioned that he can tell no difference between broadcast HD and broadcast 4K, as the broadcast 4K lacks HDR.
Do you (or anybody) know something about C8 upgrade?
Thanks !
Fidse,
Mine is the same way. A small gap between the sound center and the screen in the middle, no gap on the sides. I believe this is as designed. My guess is this provides isolation from vibration for the bigger middle speakers - see how there is a gap all the way around the middle part.
Stan
Have you managed to fit the Oak fret yet? It's a bit fiddly but I started with the four outer studs then carefully went along the top and bottom rows. It also helps to put your hand behind the SS when you push. The studs don't seem to "pop" like the black fret. You'll know when it's fully fitted when the spacing along the top and bottom to the glass is the same.
good luck
To all Eclipse owners: will you all make the change of the HDMI board because of the Dolby Vision 50/60hz problem? I am considering NOT to change the bosrd because I never have problems with my Eclipse when I use it with my Apple Tv and Oppo player when using color sampling 4:2:0. Should I replace the bosrd anyway if in the future will be sources in 50/60 hz in Dolby Vision?
best regards
Martin
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
Martin:To all Eclipse owners: will you all make the change of the HDMI board because of the Dolby Vision 50/60hz problem? I am considering NOT to change the bosrd because I never have problems with my Eclipse when I use it with my Apple Tv and Oppo player when using color sampling 4:2:0. Should I replace the bosrd anyway if in the future will be sources in 50/60 hz in Dolby Vision? best regards Martin Beovision Eclipse 65 with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 5 front (sw 3.30a), Beolab 3 rear, 2xBeoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K
I have spoken to two dealers in the UK. Both state that B&O are of the opinion that the latest C8/E8 panels from LG to offer a significant improvement.
This opinion does not seem to be shared by some of TV's technical press. It is stated that LG's Alpha 9 processor does improve such areas as nearly eliminating vertical banding, and there are improvements when playing 4K Blu-ray discs. There are also interesting bug fixes. The contrast range is also adjudged to be a noticeable improvement.
It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O. Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model?
Any thoughts on this?
Villarsch (B&O admirer since the 1960s)
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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villarsch: It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O. Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model?
This is only a guess, but when manufacturers do deals for components there's often a minimum quantity involved. Perhaps B&O simply commited to the previous generation panel in a certain number and/or they have stock in the Czech manufacturing plant?
It might not be as easy as simply moving up to the new panel when there's a new release - remember that LG has produced something unique for B&O. It's not an off-the-shelf component.
villarsch: I have spoken to two dealers in the UK. Both state that B&O are of the opinion that the latest C8/E8 panels from LG to offer a significant improvement. That comment alone, if true, would suggest B&O are making another run of Eclipses, maybe called the Apoca-clypse. This opinion does not seem to be shared by some of TV's technical press. It is stated that LG's Alpha 9 processor does improve such areas as nearly eliminating vertical banding, and there are improvements when playing 4K Blu-ray discs. There are also interesting bug fixes. The contrast range is also adjudged to be a noticeable improvement. It makes you wonder how much room exists for refinement in that technology? It did not take long for plasma's evolution, but LED has been a long run. It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O. Interesting. Whether or not it is improved performance is moot to B&O. B&O no longer manufactures, so they surely buy everything in batches, as per Moxxey. How much they pay for panels is a function of how many they buy, how much value B&O bring LG, and how much LG does to the standard panel to make it B&O-worthy? I go with "they contract for as few as possible which costs a lot, add little or no value to LG, and get nothing special from LG in return". Another issue is who makes it "not just a TV"? My guess is the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar, so any change to the panel necessitates a change to the soundbar? These TVs don't change a lot or LG couldn't retool twice a year. The BeoPlay factory is also building by batch, which allows you to tart up and dump your dead product with special editions while prepping the new. Nothing wrong with that as long as the product is effective. Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model? The mass market knows the difference between good and great is not that large. Tech is too fast in the mass market to be a stodgy player. It appears Loewe and Bowers & Wilkins have taken very different approaches to avoiding that fate. B&O is clearly stuck in the middle, but at least it paid off its gang of elites, and all without the burden of turning a net profit. I wonder who got screwed with THAT model?
That comment alone, if true, would suggest B&O are making another run of Eclipses, maybe called the Apoca-clypse.
It makes you wonder how much room exists for refinement in that technology? It did not take long for plasma's evolution, but LED has been a long run.
It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O.
Interesting. Whether or not it is improved performance is moot to B&O. B&O no longer manufactures, so they surely buy everything in batches, as per Moxxey. How much they pay for panels is a function of how many they buy, how much value B&O bring LG, and how much LG does to the standard panel to make it B&O-worthy? I go with "they contract for as few as possible which costs a lot, add little or no value to LG, and get nothing special from LG in return".
Another issue is who makes it "not just a TV"? My guess is the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar, so any change to the panel necessitates a change to the soundbar? These TVs don't change a lot or LG couldn't retool twice a year. The BeoPlay factory is also building by batch, which allows you to tart up and dump your dead product with special editions while prepping the new. Nothing wrong with that as long as the product is effective.
Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model?
The mass market knows the difference between good and great is not that large. Tech is too fast in the mass market to be a stodgy player. It appears Loewe and Bowers & Wilkins have taken very different approaches to avoiding that fate. B&O is clearly stuck in the middle, but at least it paid off its gang of elites, and all without the burden of turning a net profit. I wonder who got screwed with THAT model?
One would think the only way that B&O can progress whilst using up excess stock of panels would be to cascade them to a new more affordable TV and upgrade the Eclipse at the same price with new, better,screens.
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Simonbeo: One would think the only way that B&O can progress whilst using up excess stock of panels would be to cascade them to a new more affordable TV and upgrade the Eclipse at the same price with new, better,screens.
And what if this ‘new more affordable TV’ becomes a seller - how should they then deal with ‘excess stock’?
IMO this problem with the Eclipse will solve itself - sooner or later there are no 2018 panels and the difference between the 2018 and 2019 panels isn’t
that big....for the avarage B&O costumer.
How the h*ll should they know how many B&O-optimized 2018 panels to opt for - it is alway the same......too few or too many, seldom just the right amount.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
poodleboy: villarsch: I have spoken to two dealers in the UK. Both state that B&O are of the opinion that the latest C8/E8 panels from LG to offer a significant improvement. That comment alone, if true, would suggest B&O are making another run of Eclipses, maybe called the Apoca-clypse. This opinion does not seem to be shared by some of TV's technical press. It is stated that LG's Alpha 9 processor does improve such areas as nearly eliminating vertical banding, and there are improvements when playing 4K Blu-ray discs. There are also interesting bug fixes. The contrast range is also adjudged to be a noticeable improvement. It makes you wonder how much room exists for refinement in that technology? It did not take long for plasma's evolution, but LED has been a long run. It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O. Interesting. Whether or not it is improved performance is moot to B&O. B&O no longer manufactures, so they surely buy everything in batches, as per Moxxey. How much they pay for panels is a function of how many they buy, how much value B&O bring LG, and how much LG does to the standard panel to make it B&O-worthy? I go with "they contract for as few as possible which costs a lot, add little or no value to LG, and get nothing special from LG in return". Another issue is who makes it "not just a TV"? My guess is the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar, so any change to the panel necessitates a change to the soundbar? These TVs don't change a lot or LG couldn't retool twice a year. The BeoPlay factory is also building by batch, which allows you to tart up and dump your dead product with special editions while prepping the new. Nothing wrong with that as long as the product is effective. Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model? The mass market knows the difference between good and great is not that large. Tech is too fast in the mass market to be a stodgy player. It appears Loewe and Bowers & Wilkins have taken very different approaches to avoiding that fate. B&O is clearly stuck in the middle, but at least it paid off its gang of elites, and all without the burden of turning a net profit. I wonder who got screwed with THAT model?
One may think about ‘the deeper meaning’ of your post, what he/she may (I sure do).
But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.
I don’t know exactly, what you mean by ...‘the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar’.
I am however sure, that you with soundbar mean the Sound Center of the Eclipse.
This is - as the BeoLabs manufactored in the former (now Tymphany owned) B&O owned factory in the Czech Republic.
I am pretty sure, that they can control how many Sound Centers are built - much easier than with the LG-built tv part.
There is a pre-production line in Struer for these things - when finished and ‘signed off’ they are produced/assembled in the Czech factory.
Not that I think, that it will matter much to you - but people should know, what is right and what is wrong.
I think you’re right. LG have produced something special for B&O- It’s called a C7 screen.
I peeled off the LG C7 sticker off the back of the eclipse TV after it had been installed.
B&O have produced something equally special.
It’s called an absolute rip off where it’s hopefully, finally going to allow 4K blu Ray players and Apple 4K TV to show images how they should be seen several months after launch by fixing its soundcentre.
It’s a dying breed which will , I am sure cease TV production in the near future.
Complete disappointment.
Why defend a company which once again has released a TV which is nowhere near ready for Release.
Oh MM, your share options must be underwater. It's too late to do what Loewe seemed to do; just when things looked bleak, rumours of an Apple takeover surfaced and the shares skyrocketed....twice. An amazing coincidence.
One may think about ‘the deeper meaning’ of your post, what he/she may (I sure do). Just the cynical ramblings of one who fell in love during the heyday of B&O and Mercedes and wishes for that again for both. No deeper meaning than a desire to succeed and anger that they might not. But I ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.
I don’t know exactly, what you mean by ...‘the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar’. Yes you do.
I am however sure, that you with soundbar mean the Sound Center of the Eclipse. Told you so.
This is - as the BeoLabs manufactored in the former (now Tymphany owned) B&O owned factory in the Czech Republic. And Tymphany is a Chinese company so, unless your sources told you differently, the only agreement Tymphany had was to continue producing in Czech what was in place.
I am pretty sure, that they can control how many Sound Centers are built - much easier than with the LG-built tv part. So they have control over Tymphany production and produce to order? Is there a special club for Chinese owners of former Danish companies? But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.
There is a pre-production line in Struer for these things - when finished and ‘signed off’ they are produced/assembled in the Czech factory. How is that working out for you these days?
Not that I think, that it will matter much to you - but people should know, what is right and what is wrong. That hurts, especially coming from you. But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.
Quite a lot Eclipse owners seem to be happy with their tv.
Please name me a tv, that - from an owerall point of view - comes near to a BV Eclipse.
I attended the dealer launch of the Eclipse and it still didn't have that "must have" quality of being good to look at from the back as well as the front and the interface was not that B&O black background with nice graphics. The start up did not have a sense of occasion and where were the curtains. I wanted to like it but it all seemed too compromised. Just my opinion? I'm not sure.
Millemissen: Quite a lot Eclipse owners seem to be happy with their tv. Please name me a tv, that - from an owerall point of view - comes near to a BV Eclipse. MM
And quite a lot don't. But let us become unreal. If cost were no object, I would prefer a brand new 11-55 on a motorised wall bracket over an Eclipse. Elegance unmatched, acceptable tech and performance, with superior quality. Using the same mentality, I would rather have a perfect '95 Mercedes E Class (with a current audio system) than a 2018.
fu21:I think you’re right. LG have produced something special for B&O- It’s called a C7 screen. I peeled off the LG C7 sticker off the back of the eclipse TV after it had been installed. B&O have produced something equally special. It’s called an absolute rip off where it’s hopefully, finally going to allow 4K blu Ray players and Apple 4K TV to show images how they should be seen several months after launch by fixing its soundcentre. It’s a dying breed which will , I am sure cease TV production in the near future. Complete disappointment. Why defend a company which once again has released a TV which is nowhere near ready for Release.
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
There are far too few who think as you do, certainly not enough willing to buy it in sufficient quantities - and not an insignificant number of current owners who, given the choice, wouldn't make the same purchase decision again.
Hardly a world beater then.
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: There are far too few who think as you do, certainly not enough willing to buy it in sufficient quantities - and not an insignificant number of current owners who, given the choice, wouldn't make the same purchase decision again. Hardly a world beater then.
Do you have some figures and facts, that we/I don’t have?
Maybe the content owners just don’t fancy joining the conversation here......in this hornet’s nest.
They are sure to be stung immediately.
Maybe they prefer spending their time watching and listening to their BV Eclipse ;-)
LOEWE 7
Millemissen: Maybe the content owners just don’t fancy joining the conversation here......in this hornet’s nest. They are sure to be stung immediately. Maybe they prefer spending their time watching and listening to their BV Eclipse ;-)
You have to be respected for your total dedication to the brand, irrespective of the matter discussed.
Personally, I do not think that folks on this forum are out to sting anybody. After all, it is everyone's own business to decide where they spend their money and what brings them enjoyment and fulfillment. If Eclipse rocks someone's boat, I am all for it.
For me it was just a messy pool totally incapable of floating any boat but that is my issue, not Eclipse owner's
JFJBrussels:Do you (or anybody) know something about C8 upgrade?
I've had an order in since last year, with the requirement that it be the C8 screen. I've been told that my C8 screen will be delivered late July (I am in Australia). Two questions:
BV6-26, BV7-40, BL7.4, BL3, BL5, BS9000, BC1, ES1, Beo4, BeoPort
Millemissen: Maybe the content owners just don’t fancy joining the conversation here......in this hornet’s nest. They are sure to be stung immediately. Maybe they prefer spending their time watching and listening to their BV Eclipse ;-) MM
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Razlaw:So very true. While I am not an Eclipse owner, I am a very content B and O owner with multiple products. I stopped posting here sometime ago because any positive comment I made was attacked, or stung. Sometimes I would post a totally neutral fact/comment and people would twist into something it was not, so that they could attack me for being positive about B and O. I have no problem believing that content Eclipse owners choose not to post.
Millemissen:Do you have some figures and facts, that we/I don’t have?
Do you have any to show how well it's going?
fu21: I peeled off the LG C7 sticker off the back of the eclipse TV after it had been installed. B
Beer_Baron:I've had an order in since last year, with the requirement that it be the C8 screen. I've been told that my C8 screen will be delivered late July (I am in Australia). Two questions: How do I tell it is a C8 screen? Some say there is a sticker on the back, can you be more specific? MM, to get the HDMI "fix" for Dolby Vision, what must I ask for? Is there an engineering or technical number that I can quote to have it fitted before delivery? BV6-26, BV7-40, BL7.4, BL3, BL5, BS9000, BC1, ES1, Beo4, BeoPort
Fidse:I, by the way, freakin’ love my Eclipse!
It sure is the most beautiful TV/music centre out there.
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Perhaps we shouldn't spend too much time on discussing if the Eclipse is value for money or enough up-to-date wrt technology, and instead focus on the strategy for B&O regarding televisions? B&O do read what is written here.
Most are aware that the Eclipse didn't reach the expected volumes. Around here, quite a few BV7 owners (not including BV7-55 mk2 owners a.o) upgraded to a new BV prior to the launch of the Eclipse. The BV11/14 and Avant were "replacement" TV's for this group, and they are not looking at replacing their current investment anytime soon. So adding BV11/14+Avant sales thinking this will be the Eclipse sales is perhaps not as straight forward? Or whatever the sales department thought prior to the launch of the Eclipse and ordering screens. So the Eclipse had to attract new customers to compensate - a tough task for any BeoVision.
With this in mind B&O is now heading down a route that could give us "regular" soundbars and a more custom soundbar, where a generic LG screen can be docked/placed and replaced. Struer will not necessarily provide the screen, but the dealers can buy them at their local "Dixon" outlet and provide a package to the customer.
Perhaps B&O let too many Vision-experts go and this is a given route now - or could / should they take a step back and reconsider the BeoVision line-up?
Roger
I really wouldn't get too perturbed if you have a C7 screen; I doubt it very much if you will notice any difference more a marketing move if you ask me. There will be a C9 next year what then? Presumably B&O built TV's using the C7 and the C8 will be introduced as the older sets sell or they use up old stock. Its the same at Loewe.
Copied this off the Loewe forum:
The "majority" are mechanical changes, the panel is significantly heavier than its predecessors. Certainly some internal components will be developed further, but the image performance will have little influence. Differences that are "testable": About 50nits overall (HDR mode) more than V17. Recognizing the difference in daily use is difficult. The maximum peak limiter (HDR mode) has been lowered. With V17 was at a 10% window at about 700-750, max. 800nits final.V18 can go down to a 3% window and theoretically (emphasis here is on theory) to 1000nits for a minute or two.
Admittedly this is relating to Loewe OLED with their propriety software/processing
For what its worth I looked very hard at the Eclipse but I really didn't like the design and the fact that the software was purely LG. Opted for Loewe Bild 5 in a retro stand which imo shows far more design fair but of course its all a matter of taste. Undoubtedly B&O will have better sound btw but for me not a major selling point
Looks a bit close to your wood burner if you ask me
Well, my mother-in-law briefly had a Sanyo POS that was about as infuriating on updates and s/w issues as the Eclipse, but since by comparison it was almost free I guess that isn't exactly the same.
As for number who like/hate it, vs. perhaps the number of people who will come and rave in favor of it regardless of if it's working well or not, because they can't admit they bought a pig in a poke and are still desperately trying to put lipstick on said pig through the small hole in the poke, well, hard to know for sure but I have my opinions.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.