ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
moxxey: It is confusing, but would it really matter? If BL5s can be sold individually but can be connected to perform as a pair, would having two different serials affect the performance for an end user?
It is confusing, but would it really matter? If BL5s can be sold individually but can be connected to perform as a pair, would having two different serials affect the performance for an end user?
So, if you received a brand spanking new car, with zero use, the little bobbles still on the tyres, plastic still on the drivers seat and that brand new car smell... apart from the engine, which had been used previously for four and a half months, you wouldn't really care?
They might not even be at the same software level for a start!
At the end of the day though, the buyer has paid 6-Month old money for a 6-Year old pair. If a car dealership sold a 6 year old car as a 6 month old car, what would your thoughts be?
9 LEE: moxxey: It is confusing, but would it really matter? If BL5s can be sold individually but can be connected to perform as a pair, would having two different serials affect the performance for an end user? So, if you received a brand spanking new car, with zero use, the little bobbles still on the tyres, plastic still on the drivers seat and that brand new car smell... apart from the engine, which had been used previously for four and a half months, you wouldn't really care?
How would you know???
Who said that ex demo is 6 months or so old? I know dealers who have had demo stock for much longer.
Regards Graham
Well if anyone here can’t see what difference it makes and drive a new E class, I’ve got a 2010 model I’ll happily swap them with!
They were bought on finance through the dealer, so I wander what they’d say about the whole thing.?
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
joeyboygolf: How would you know??? Who said that ex demo is 6 months or so old? I know dealers who have had demo stock for much longer.
Would you assume they were 6 months old if the website you bought them from said they were 6 months old, and they were being sold at 6 months old prices, and nobody ever told you otherwise?
I know you're a completely honest man Graham, and if you had a dealership you wouldn't have done this. Dealers know what serial numbers mean, and they have at least a basic grasp of the numbers which correspond with years. I may have been a bit 'rain man' about serial numbers and ages, so I don't count - but when your current stock starts with 26*** and 27**** you'd surely think a 22**** serial wasn't exactly fresh stock?
The dealership has always told us that after 6 months of being on demo, they’re always sold on. We were told they were ex demo, last out of Struer and even shown the despatch label that coincided with their description(see previous picture).
We then bought them ex demo pieces. Not the same dealer but exactly the same description and price. Word for word.
https://www.bomerchantcity.co.uk/product/beolab-5-ex-display/
I would have checked the serial numbers before I bought them. The serial number/age question has been asked on here on numerous occasions so if you buy without checking it is your own fault.
I trust nobody, even B&O dealers!
joeyboygolf: I would have checked the serial numbers before I bought them. The serial number/age question has been asked on here on numerous occasions so if you buy without checking it is your own fault.
I see what you say, and I also get your point. However, some people are trusting - and if you're a trusting person surely you could trust an official B&O Dealer?
It's a bit crap if you can't....
joeyboygolf: I would have checked the serial numbers before I bought them. The serial number/age question has been asked on here on numerous occasions so if you buy without checking it is your own fault. I trust nobody, even B&O dealers!
I would have checked before and after at the delivery.
It is not always a question of trust, we all make errors and it is easier to prove it at the best moment.
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
That's not what I asked at all Lee - nowhere did I justify the condition or age. I asked a technical question about performing as a pair. ie. it was yourself who said they can be sold as individual units. If that's the case, how does the serial number situation affect performance as a pair? Putting aside age here, surely these speakers don't necessarily need to come as a close pair, to be sold as two individual speakers?
Slightly disappointed by your reply, if I'm fair. And can we knock this car comparison on the head please. Parts of this thread are going around with the same content, over and over.
moxxey: 9 LEE: moxxey: It is confusing, but would it really matter? If BL5s can be sold individually but can be connected to perform as a pair, would having two different serials affect the performance for an end user? So, if you received a brand spanking new car, with zero use, the little bobbles still on the tyres, plastic still on the drivers seat and that brand new car smell... apart from the engine, which had been used previously for four and a half months, you wouldn't really care? That's not what I asked at all Lee - nowhere did I justify the condition or age. I asked a technical question about performing as a pair. ie. it was yourself who said they can be sold as individual units. If that's the case, how does the serial number situation affect performance as a pair? Putting aside age here, surely these speakers don't necessarily need to come as a close pair, to be sold as two individual speakers? Slightly disappointed by your reply, if I'm fair. And can we knock this car comparison on the head please. Parts of this thread are going around with the same content, over and over.
Quote Lee, " They might not even be at the same software level for a start"!
Don't see anything wrong with the car comparison either, show me a 6 yr old Merc (or model of your choice) worth as much as a 6 month old model!
Ban boring signatures!
Hi Chris,
Thanks for getting in touch and sorry to hear about this situation. I will pass your message onto our customer service team who will be able to investigate this properly with the dealer.
Could you please first confirm that the dealer is the following:
BANG & OLUFSEN OF ......
Hope we can get to the bottom of this for you.
Best,
Glyn - Bang & Olufsen
Progress maybe.
moxxey: Putting aside age here....
Putting aside age here....
... the age of the speakers being the entire purpose of this thread.
Lee
LOVL
9 LEE: moxxey: Putting aside age here.... ... the age of the speakers being the entire purpose of this thread.
Yes, but I wanted to set that part of the discussion aside as I wanted to know if two separate BL5s, with slightly different serial numbers, really is the issue we potentially making it out to be? If they can be sold separately, is it really an issue. It was yourself, Lee, who suggested they can be sold and used separately, so I was wondering how many dealers may have had two separate BL5s and sold them as "pairs" in the past. I bet this situation isn't unique.
Of course, the 2011 problem is something entirely different and completely agree the customer has been missold his product - a dealer should be aware of the age. It's not difficult to figure out. But you can also ask different questions within the same thread!
Puncher: Don't see anything wrong with the car comparison either, show me a 6 yr old Merc (or model of your choice) worth as much as a 6 month old model!
Of course it's not the same. If you go out to look for cars, say an Audi A3, there's a fairly clear and obvious distinction between a 2011 and 2017 model, even if the 2011 model is virtually unused. Aside from the registration and mileage, there are distinct visual differences. I've never heard of anyone mistake a 2011 car for a 2017 model, which makes the comparison odd. You'd have to be a salesperson with magical skills to persuade a customer a 6-year-old car really is this years model.
Are you really suggesting a 6 month Merc is in the same style, design or class as a 2011? I'd love to know how many people who went out to buy a 2017 model accidentally walked away with a 6-year-old car instead.
The key point of the BL5s, which Lee also pointed out, is that they could be a complete refurb. They might have received new drivers, new containers, new fabric, the lot. So, this means a customer walks in and sees a brand new BL5 which is identical to the 2011 model. In this example, you could put a refurb 2011 and 2017 BL5 side-by-side and I defy any customer to know which is the new and old model. They are exactly the same.
However, put the same 2011 and 2017 car model side-by-side and it's usually far more obvious and clear.
I have since found out that one speaker was originally sold to a retailer in July 2011, and currently isn’t registered for a warranty!
The other speaker was sold in November 2011, and bizarrely is under warranty.
I have let the retailer know I know this information, and they are to collect and refund my money as soon as possible. Needless to say, they haven’t responded.
Thanks everybody for all your helps.
moxxey: Puncher: Don't see anything wrong with the car comparison either, show me a 6 yr old Merc (or model of your choice) worth as much as a 6 month old model! Of course it's not the same. If you go out to look for cars, say an Audi A3, there's a fairly clear and obvious distinction between a 2011 and 2017 model, even if the 2011 model is virtually unused. Aside from the registration and mileage, there are distinct visual differences. I've never heard of anyone mistake a 2011 car for a 2017 model, which makes the comparison odd. You'd have to be a salesperson with magical skills to persuade a customer a 6-year-old car really is this years model. Are you really suggesting a 6 month Merc is in the same style, design or class as a 2011? I'd love to know how many people who went out to buy a 2017 model accidentally walked away with a 6-year-old car instead. The key point of the BL5s, which Lee also pointed out, is that they could be a complete refurb. They might have received new drivers, new containers, new fabric, the lot. So, this means a customer walks in and sees a brand new BL5 which is identical to the 2011 model. In this example, you could put a refurb 2011 and 2017 BL5 side-by-side and I defy any customer to know which is the new and old model. They are exactly the same. However, put the same 2011 and 2017 car model side-by-side and it's usually far more obvious and clear.
The simple car analogy was to highlight and illustrate the difference in value, I wasn't overly bothered whether it was fitted with a Cassette or CD player.
I am not seeing that registration, which means that if it exists it must have been outside of our group. Those speakers were only ever sold to you and no one else, so if one has been registered it is an error, most likely a dealer has keyed in the wrong serial number at the point of registration or when booking in stock. I will get that registration issue sorted out for you.
At no point did I ever say they were 6 months old and never pointed at the sticker on the box. You may recall that when you purchased them form display I was not even sure if we had nay boxes or not and I had to go and check. Best regards,
The reply. Nonsense
Chris Townsend: Hi Chris, I am not seeing that registration, which means that if it exists it must have been outside of our group. Those speakers were only ever sold to you and no one else, so if one has been registered it is an error, most likely a dealer has keyed in the wrong serial number at the point of registration or when booking in stock. I will get that registration issue sorted out for you. At no point did I ever say they were 6 months old and never pointed at the sticker on the box. You may recall that when you purchased them form display I was not even sure if we had nay boxes or not and I had to go and check. Best regards, The reply. Nonsense
I'd be concerned that this suggests that the B&O serial number database might be open to manipulation.
Graham
They also contradict themselves. If they didn't see these serial numbers, then how did they manage to warranty at least one of the speakers?
I shall simply contact the finance company on Monday and tell them what's been going on.
They seemed to think it perfectly acceptable to sell an odd pair of 2007/2008 speakers at 2017 prices, marketed as ex demo complete with packaging designed to agree with their trick. Ex demo nearly new Beloab 5s do cost £14,500 roughly, 7 year old ones don’t.
Initially it made me very angry and anti B&O, but that’s well passed now. I simply make a point now of telling every dealer I meet here and in Denmark all about it and them.
Ive since bought a Beovision Eclipse and a pair of BeoLab 17s, which in a relatively compact environment we currently have, work really well together.
Cheers
I naively thought this wouldn't happen in this brand and with a dealer I'd spent a decade purchasing from, but that's just life I guess.
Moving on.