BeoVision 11 (Story developing)

Thanks for your inputs rxcohen! It's really helpful.

Any other thoughts from other beofans?

I have 15 meters IR cable (custom made), so no problem with the length here.

My thoughts on Avant vs. BV11-46:

Avant's picture is only better with very high quality sources (4K aside), such as uncompressed 1080p Blu-ray. With 4K, it's of course stellar, but there's very little 4K content available.

With HD television (720p) and especially standard definition television, the BV11-46 wins. Partly due to less upscaling needed, partly due to the smaller 46" screen size that doesn't blow up artifacts as much in non-1080p sources.

It could also be argued that Blu-ray from a standard player looks better on BV11-46, because they both operate at the same native 1080p resolution. Throw in a new Oppo blu-ray player with its superb 4K upscaling, and the Avant will shine.

Sound-wise, the Avant is more powerful, but in my opionion less musical. BV11-46 has a fuller, warmer sound. This is in part evident in the frequency response (BV11 has deeper bass):

BV11-46: 44 Hz - 22.800 Hz

Avant 55: 60 Hz - 22.800 Hz

In my opinion, bass response starting from 44 Hz is a marked improvement over Avant's 60 Hz. This is however relevant ONLY if the TV acts as the standalone speaker system without other connected BeoLabs.

Thanks to the dedicated center channel, Avant's sound can be considered 'crisper' or clearer, especially with dialogue/vocals.

So for audio, both TVs have their merits, and the only way to judge which is better to your ears, is to listen to them both with the SAME sound settings:

Due to the automatic, adaptive sound modes in both TVs, it's important to check that the sound modes are set to the same, when listening to them in a shop. If a BV11 happens to be playing in the "Speech" mode and Avant in the "Movie" mode, you will not get a valid comparison. I recommend listening to both in either "Music" mode with Spotify or "Movie" mode with the same Blu-ray.

Personally, I decided to wait for a next-generation Avant (Mk II, perhaps due in 2016), because I really love the design of BV11 and 4K will not be mainstream for a few years. And when 4K is more mainstream, it is unknown at this point if Avant's video engine will be up to spec.

So alone for the reason of Avant being 4K, I would not choose it at this point. I'd choose it if more attributes check the right boxes for you: its design, the placement options, the movement, the sound (if you prefer it over BV11).

Avant has B&O's bespoken mechanical movement magic, Beovision 11 is more of a classic B&O design statement (with more color options).

Tough choice but what a wonderful dilemma!

At the moment I would go for a BV 11 although I think 4K is the future. Actually you can use Netflix to see real 4K material on 4K tellies. Meanwhile you can use Netflix 4K with many brands, Panasonic has announced an Netflix 4K update for their 4K tellies:

http://www.multichannel.com/news/tv-apps/netflix-starts-play-4k-panasonic-tvs/385816

But such an update will NOT be available for the Avant because of the lack of HEVC-capable hardware.

If you want to benefit from 4K, I would wait for an Avant Mk2 or a BV 11-4K. The actual Avant is not a good option, not only because of missing HEVC but also because of a lousy upscaling of HD and SD material.

Regards

Räuber

If you choose to buy the Avant now, you could easily get Netflix 4K, if you connect a Philips UHD box (or any of the other coming small UHD boxes).

 

Personally I don't care much for the heavy compressed 4K of Netflix (and haven't got the internet bandwith for it either).

I am much more interested in the coming 4K bluray players.....

....and if they will have the HEVC decoder onboard, or if they will need a built-in decoder in the tv.

MM

Hi MM,

I'm not sure if Avant's lack of HEVC will be a problem in the future, but I wouldn't take this risk.

A 4K-bluray player would be nice without any doubt. But I would prefer an inbuilt player in Avant Mk2 (like BV 7). And also an inbuild 4K-tuner for 4K broadcast (available in 2030...).

Let's be serious: I actually don't miss a 4K-BV in my home at all!

Greets

Räuber

Obviously you have to do what you think is right, but honestly this is one of those things that is almost irrelevant and IMOP preferable. Another way of looking at this is asking anyone with a BV11, V1 or Avant if they actually use the SmartTV function. If its greater than 1%, I'd be stunned and thats why you should not care and focus on the external box.

Just my 2 cents.

mawheele:

If its greater than 1%, I'd be stunned and thats why you should not care and focus on the external box.

I agree. The "smart" TV functionality on B&O products is a piece of ***, just like any other implementation. By smart TV, I refer to what B&O calls Web Media with its web browser and apps, all completely useless.

I do however use Spotify quite a lot on my TV and YouTube occasionally. Both suck too, but using the TV's built-in Spotify is simply more convenient than AirPlay, and the YouTube app actually sucks less than the one on Apple TV.

Here's hoping B&O adds Spotify Connect in a future update, so that I never have to bother with the TV's music interface again. 

Friends,

Why compare the two sets like a car race? It´s not a good way to compare, they are simply not the same!

• The BV11 has stereo speakers, the Avant has stereo, plus a center speaker (They are not enough on their own how ever you try, but with external speakers the Avant wins, at least for me since you get a real center speaker).

• The BV11 has a beautiful design which makes people think of David Lewis, perhaps not only as a nice TV but as an homage to the great industrial designer. The Avant which has a very clever and elegant design is not designed by David Lewis but 'David Lewis Designers' (Torsten Valeur), perhaps (and I understand this) it is hard for some B&O-fans to take in a new designer into their living room. 

• The Avant is a 4K set and the BV11 is a Full-HD (Avant has about four times the amount of pixels). They will both show mostly the same kind of material for the time being but the Avant is a little more future proof. Most things look good in Full-HD but the Avant is the cutting edge. HEVC of course is a problem but not a big one, the internal player is there but lacks support for 4K sources and an external player can override this issue. With the BV11 you won't be able to do it whatever you do! So thats that.

• The smart-tv capabilities is not really worth talking about (it´s like games that comes with a computer, they are there but they aren't really the best, rather they are quite horrible). 

My conclusion: Buy whichever set you like the best. I always think you should go for what you feel is right by heart. They can't be compared since they are too different.  

I'm 100% with Michael on this. Both are so incredibly different. To me, the BV11 even BV10 is the best design of a television that i've ever come across. It's art. It's timeless. It's based on Marc Rothko art! The Avant is well, a TV! As Michael says, follow your heart. Both are so very different. 

Best of all. Try BOTH in your home, invite some close friends round and decide there a then! I'm sure they're be a winner when you see them in your home/crib!

For me the appearance of the TV is really important. The BV11 on a motorised hinge fits my particular room so much better than the New Avant could, and the Avant's potential higher resolution etc is of little interest at these sort of screen sizes in a normal room.

I use the Smart TV function from time to time, but not the majority of services on it. It badly  lacks things like the ITV player (for UK ITV), but suddenly finding that it will now stream Radio Paradise including its HD slide show makes the Smart TV function worthwhile just for this one feature. In our case most Smart TV use is for the BBC iPlayer.

Graham

 

Thanks a lot for all your inputs.

I agree with most of you, I don't care so much about 4K. I think this new technology is relevant for big screens like the Avant 85' but on 55' screens, you barely see a difference with HD materials. Plus I don't like the over processed upscaled HD images it creates. The picture quality looks better for me on a BV11 in this regards. Then I don't know about clouding or LED bleeding if one is better than another. I am much more interested with OLED technology, I'm looking forward to see a BV OLED one day ;)

The only thing I worry about with the BV11 is that I'm not sure I will like the visual overall of a picture squeezed with the black bars you have on most movies in addition to the heavy speaker underneath. I presume the image will look even smaller than on traditionnal 46' screens without frame (like Loewe Individual i.e). By the way, to minimize this effect, what speaker colors do you recommend? If I choose the BV11, I will go for the silver finish for the frame.

And I agree, I prefer the BV11 on its easel stand rather than on the wall. The problem is that I have young kids and I'm afraid they will damage the speaker and the screen if I choose a floor option.

Some of you are saying that I will add speakers anyway... Is the sound of the TV not enough for a 25 square meters room for music and movies? That's what made me look at B&O products at first place, their all integrated and streamlined design solutions...

Though choices but yes KMA what a great dilemna!

I find that the BV11 sound is more than adequate on its own.

My speaker fret is white, but under artificial light in the evening it appears much more of a subdued grey colour. I don't find the speaker panel to have a heavy look to it, but again it is all personal taste. The nearly square BV11 just happens to suit the location that I have it in.... the new Avant wouldn't look right. The stand for the Avant is a very clever design, but in many positions the off-setting of the vertical support on the base actually makes it look very unstable. I know it isn't unstable, but one element of good design is to make things look right as well as performing correctly.

Graham

fredpert:

Is the sound of the TV not enough for a 25 square meters room for music and movies? That's what made me look at B&O products at first place, their all integrated and streamlined design solutions...

The sound will be great for music and movies in a 25-square-meter room. The 3-way stereo speakers are wonderfully tuned and balanced, and there's a really good amount of bass. In my opionion, a comparison to a pair of much loved BeoLab 4000 speakers is not far off.

Hi

Thanks for all your replies... Actually, I did a mistake, my living room is around 35 square meters. Do you think the sound of the BV11 will be crisp/powerful/warm enough for movies and music without needing to add a sub (BL11 or BL19)?

I really like the design of the BV11 over the Avant.

The viewing distance from the screen is around 11 feet though. Is 46' going to be enough?

Thanks

Fred

I went to my local dealer today with a selection of 2/3 songs to test the sound of those two TVs.

Actually, I was quite surprised to discover such differences between them in terms of sound. KMA, it's exactly what you said, the sound of the BV11 is more crisp, clear and more potent in the medium/highs (perfect for jazz and classic) while the Avant is more powerful, more "round" and warm with stronger bass (better when I tryed with electronic music).

I have the feeling the BV11 would deserve additional sub (like the BL19) to get a perfect sound balance while the Avant could stand on its own but with a sound that can be a little bit too messy and deafening sometimes.

Did anyone tryed the BV11 with the BL19?

By the way I tryed the BV11 with BL14 2.1 it really was stunning!!!

Concerning the image, I was happy to see that the picture of the Avant is on par with the BV11. The upscaling seems to be not as bad as I would have thought and handles HD sources pretty well. Motion management was even better on the Avant actually...

Tough choice ;)

I too yearn for an OLED. The model I saw last year at £8,000, is now £2,000.

Hopefully this is a reflection of a less expensive, less wasteful manufacturing process. I hope LG stick with it.

fredpert:

I went to my local dealer today with a selection of 2/3 songs to test the sound of those two TVs.

Actually, I was quite surprised to discover such differences between them in terms of sound. KMA, it's exactly what you said, the sound of the BV11 is more crisp, clear and more potent in the medium/highs (perfect for jazz and classic) while the Avant is more powerful, more "round" and warm with stronger bass (better when I tryed with electronic music).

I have the feeling the BV11 would deserve additional sub (like the BL19) to get a perfect sound balance while the Avant could stand on its own but with a sound that can be a little bit too messy and deafening sometimes.

Did anyone tryed the BV11 with the BL19?

By the way I tryed the BV11 with BL14 2.1 it really was stunning!!!

Concerning the image, I was happy to see that the picture of the Avant is on par with the BV11. The upscaling seems to be not as bad as I would have thought and handles HD sources pretty well. Motion management was even better on the Avant actually...

Tough choice ;)

I have the BeoLab 11 subfoower, which in my opinion complements the BV11's design nicely. Also when needed, it provides very precise, accurate bass that is not overwhelming in a mid-size room (25 - 35 square meters).

I have tweaked the sound settings for the sub from BV11's menus: for example the Subwoofer Level is set to +5 db (0 is no increase in bass level, 6 is the maximum). Since BeoLab 11 is more musical than booming, this setting is perfect for movies and "bassier" music (such as electronic music, I listen to electronic Chilliout @ Digitally Imported radio quite often).

The BeoLab 19 is more powerful, a good alternative to the older BeoLab 2, and of course you can adjust BL19 to your liking, too. That's one of the great feature sets on both BV11 and Avant: the possibility to tweak the sound "ad infinitum" with more settings than I've ever seen for sound adjustments.

As for motion management, always judge the image of a BeoVision with Judder Cancel OFF. When ON, contrary to what the setting's name implies, motion can be "jerky" and there can be visible artifacts around moving objects plus the unnatural overall "soap opera effect". So the motion compensation is better left OFF.

These considered, I'd say that ultimately the tough choice comes down to design

Hi,

Thank you all for your advices! I have to make up my mind quickly now as prices are increasing 1st of Jan...

I just have one more question... About the remote, when you commute the remote to control a set-top box, changing the channels and so on, when you want to adjust the volume, if you press on + or -, does it adjust the sound on the TV or does it adjust the sound of the set-top box? I'm asking this because if everytime you want to adjust the sound you have to commute the remote to control the TV, I guess it can be a little bit annoying...

Thanks

Hi,

Thank you all for your advices! I have to make up my mind quickly now as prices are increasing 1st of Jan...

I just have one more question... About the remote, when you commute the remote to control a set-top box, changing the channels and so on, when you want to adjust the volume, if you press on + or -, does it adjust the sound on the TV or does it adjust the sound of the set-top box? I'm asking this because if everytime you want to adjust the sound you have to commute the remote to control the TV, I guess it can be a little bit annoying...

Thanks

Quick one: If I want to buy a second-hand item from B&O, how can you verify that the serial number is valid? Is there a SAV or a contact at B&O to send an e-mail to?

Thanks

Well, the BV 7-55 is a much worse product in other regards, because it's based on old technology. The panel is inferior and the software platform is obsolete. So for me, this flickering issue is not severe enough to warrant the tradeoffs. I am pretty happy with my BV11, despite this issue. I haven't seen it in other films than Her yet.

I've had both the 11 and the 7-55, and although younger, in no way is the 7-55 panel inferior to the 11.

fredpert:

Hi,

Thank you all for your advices! I have to make up my mind quickly now as prices are increasing 1st of Jan...

I just have one more question... About the remote, when you commute the remote to control a set-top box, changing the channels and so on, when you want to adjust the volume, if you press on + or -, does it adjust the sound on the TV or does it adjust the sound of the set-top box? I'm asking this because if everytime you want to adjust the sound you have to commute the remote to control the TV, I guess it can be a little bit annoying...

Thanks

I am not quite sure, what you mean with 'commute the remote'?

If you have set up your external devices (e.g. a set-top box) to be controlled via the PUC (downloaded online in the settings) and you have attached the ir emitter to the device, all you have to do is to control it with the remote (BeoRemote One).

That inludes the sound of the BV, since the volumen output from external devices (in most cases) will be fixed.

So - to make it short - you always communicate with the BV. The BV afterwards 'translates' the commands for the external device in order to control it. You can see in the top of the tv-screen how the volumen (of the tv) changes, when you 'press + or -'.

Hope that answers your question.

MM

 

To make it even shorter : no it won't change the volume of stb only the tv. And yes the experience (one remote only) is great. Don't worry at all (or worry only to see if your stb is in the PUC list) !

Hi Millemissen,

Sorry for the confusion, I'm french so I might not have used the right word. Actually, I will receive TV signals via an external decoder (Numericable). To control it with the BV remote I guess at one point you have to press a specific button to let the TV know that you want to control the decoder via the PUC, no?

That is ok - and fully understandable - I am not a native english speaking/writing person either

How to setup (and use) an external device - connected to a BV - is well described in the user guide(s).

With the newer BV's you can assign a button on the remote for turning on the device (and turning on the BV to the used input  - probably one of the HDMI's).

You may even call it/the source 'TV'!

You control everything with the Beo remote, but you - of course - have to deal with the interface/the menus of your external box.

Some functions can be controlled direct on the Beo remote - others through the menus of the external box (with the Beo remote).

B&O has basicallly been doing it this way for decades now.

Today it is a very 'sophisticated' way of controlling an external device.

It has become very easy - both in setting up and in handling.

A good dealer sets up at least your main external device, when delivering the BV - and he shows you howto!

MM

@fredpert

I'm also french and also have numericable.

You can choose the source you want to control with the remote.

For me Tv = la tnt, Dtv = numericable (dvd = PS3).

If you want to control the sound of the numericable box (or enter the settings) you have to press twice "menu", if you press it one time you get the tv menu.

@Beogreg,

Merci pour ta réponse (du coup je te réponds en français, c'est plus simple!)

En fait j'ai bien compris le fait d'associer un bouton (TV ou DTV) à une boitier externe, la question est plus de se dire est-ce que quand tu as appuyer sur DTV par exemple pour piloter Numéricable, quand tu appuies sur volume + c'est le son du décodeur qui augmente ou le son du TV? Parce que idéalement, il vaut mieux que le son du Numéricable reste au même niveau tout le temps et que ce soit la TV qui fase varier la puissance.

Merci and sorry for the others for this little french chat ;)

Only the sound of the tv will increase never the setting of the set top box. ( tu ne peux pas accéder aux réglages de la box en appuyant qu'une seule fois sur la télécommande - c'est très bien pensé).

Ok! je comprends mieux... plutôt cool effectivement.

A l'inverse, est-ce que ça veut dire que quand tu veux changer de chaine il faut appuyer 2 fois sur la touche?

Qu'est ce que tu as comme équipement?

fredpert:

Merci and sorry for the others for this little french chat ;)

It's ok - but could I have just a short résumé of that little chat, s’il vous plaît?

MM

Fred just reasked in french the same question you (we) already answered.

Merci bien!

MM

The Beovision platform just received a new update on 15-12-14.

A change that I noticed is that pushing CD (or whatever button you have assigned to Spotify) now restarts the Spotify app instead of turning on the screen. Before the update, this was how I got the screen to turn back on after it had turned itself off. 

Have you guys figured out a way to turn on the screen without changing songs after the latest update? Better yet: a way to turn off the auto-dim function completely?

Merry Xmas to all of you guys!

I am about to decide to go for the BV11 46' after all... I went to my B&O dealer and spent a lot of time there,

1. the design is really a piece of art vs the BV Avant

2. with HD sources, the picture is much more detailed and crisp in comparison to the Avant where I could even see some "moire" effect on black areas. I suppose with blu-rays the difference will be less noticeable and with 4K, Avant will shine but 4K is not a reality yet and I don't want to wait 3/4 years before having full benefit of my video system. Plus in 3/4 years, we probably will not even talk about 4K but 8K ;)

3. the sound is much more detailed as well especially with medium/lows. Avant is impressive with bass and I guess with movies the sound is more impressive but as KMA said, BV11 is more musical.

So thank you all for having given me your opinions and advices. It helped me a lot to make my mind up.

Last thing now is to decide the colour combo. And where the choice of the speaker cover fret is evident for me (I will go for black), I'm not sure about the frame. Does anyone have a clear point of view on silver frame vs black frame?

Thanks

Brilliant choice! the BV11 will still look amazing in 10 years time simply because it is art!!! The Avant is an expensive TV whereas for me, the BV11 is the true DNA of BANG&OLUFSEN and that is timeless design. For me, there's only THREE in the B&O portfolio that are truly timeless. They are...

BL18

BV11 (& BV10)

BeoSound 8 / A8 Airplay

I hope that you have decades of enjoyment from the BV11

Fredpert - great choice. i ultimately chose the black frame as it looks better when the TV is on, in low light - no edges. The black frame is also reflective so it plays well against whatever surrounds it. I found the silver a bit more distracting when watching a film, but this is only my personal preference.

I went with the silver frame because it looks more expensive. The black one might be less distracting, but it hasn't bothered me. Silver adds a certain uniqueness to the TV.

I went with the silver frame because it looks more expensive. The black one might be less distracting, but it hasn't bothered me. Silver adds a certain uniqueness to the TV.