ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear Beoworlders,
When I got to know Beoworld, it was a forum gathering B&O enthusiasts, trying to be as helpful as possible to each other and discussing about their experiences with B&O stuff. I learned a lot that helped me making a giant leap from the old Avant times to new BV12 with some third party digital sources and HDMI driven link room devices.
As my knowledge grew, I tried to be as helpful as possible, spending sometimes hours or days helping others to solve their problems.
Recently the number posting, where some members present their opinion on everthing, whether they have personal experience or not, very aggressively. Beowold tends to be like any other AV-forum, I cannot feel the old Beowold spirit anymore.
So I have decided to retire from Beoworld for a while and get back from time to time to see how things develope.
regards
hfat
Just take a short break hfat!
I know just how you feel. Opinions that more often than not help no one, plus personal attacks, seem to be a toxic combination.
The Electrifying Duo have much to answer for!
Graham
Dear hfat
That is indeed bad news, our interest in B&O equipment are not in the same line, I´m into vintage, where you are into the more modern equipment, but we share the love for B&O and the forum.
I can only advice you to ignore the new comers that are polluting the forum with their fantasy opinions of B&O, which is more about modern equipment than vintage, in the vintage forum we have lost members due to heated discussions , but we still have the old guard with us and some of the members that did not post for a long time, are coming back again.
So, the short version, stay here and keep the quality of and the forum alive. ignore the pollution.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
I would agree with Søren:
"stay here - ignore the pollution"
Greetings Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
hfat: So I have decided to retire from Beoworld for a while and get back from time to time to see how things develope.
Sorry to hear this but, with respect, there's no need to tell us all. Sounds a bit 'flouncy' to me. "Goodbye cruel world, you'll miss me!".
A forum is what you, the contributors contribute. I regularly post in our magazine forums and 60% of the conversation is nothing to do with the magazines or the magazine content. Why not? As a group of individuals use the forum to discuss general content.
It's the same as football forums. A football forum, away from matchday, consists of 80% non-football content and there can be some aggressive opinions. It's just the way it is. As I've said many times before, the written word comes across far more aggressively than speaking to someone face-to-face. Again, that's just the way it is. It's been that way since BBS days in the 90s. I've been in this game a long time, and all forums are the same. The more popular they become, the more characters become involved. Same with a nice lively discussion down the pub. You get various characters who can get passionate about a subject.
If a forum was just here to discuss B&O, there would be far fewer posts and people would complain there was a lack of content or the board came across as a ghost town.
As I said above, posts about B&O content come from the contributors.
These constant discussions about 'where has x gone?' and 'why aren't people nicer?' actually put off a lot of people, in my opinion. There's no surprise some of the professionals have moved on.
vikinger: Just take a short break hfat! I know just how you feel. Opinions that more often than not help no one, plus personal attacks, seem to be a toxic combination. The Electrifying Duo have much to answer for! Graham
Oh thanks for the Credit! Now I feel bad. I thought it just got less toxic already?....
Try audiogon if you like to discuss about AV they are all about being open. Contrary to popular believe they are pretty okay with B&O product recommendations.
I don't think the OP is being 'flouncey' at all... If he didn't care about BeoWorld and the people on here, he'd have shrugged his shoulders, logged off and not come back.
He's given us a reason for leaving, which I'm very sad about. It's a free world, with free speech, but there are always people with verbal diarrhoea of the fingertips who can become a little tiresome. I once heard a saying that "the people with the most to say have the least to tell". Wether this is true in this case is of course open to debate.
The 'old BeoWorld' which the OP refers to is the one where opinions were respected, debates were well thought out, and nobody appeared to be speaking as if they were in any way superior to the next man. This seems to be an ethos which has drifted of late.
So please, everyone, can we get back to how it used to be... stop talking for the sake of talking, respect each others opinions, offer your own opinions with a little less aggression and/or condescension and think about wether your post could upset, offend, or worse - bore the pants off anyone before you press the 'Post' button.
I'm sure I speak for many people here, but it needed saying.
Lee
I have always disliked the Audiogon forums experience. It is quite horrible, and a nightmare to navigate and actually find anything at all!
Please stay here.
For those of us only interested in vintage B&O, the forum hasn't changed much, with people only willing to help and learn.
I for one don't indulge other categories and find being here as pleasing as ever!
Jacques
@MODS - does the site have an ignore member feature that has been disabled??
Ban boring signatures!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
I'm a member of another HiFi-site, which has an ignore-function.
Prior to that function getting activated, I was getting very annoyed with that forum, due to idiot-on-a-rampage postings. After the ignore-function was up and running, it took just a few swift clicks to get a very nice dialogue going again. I was very particular about who I ignored, asking myself whether I was reacting because I didn't want to hear what was being proposed, or because the person in question was an idiot.
idiōtēs - someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.
Pretty easy to choose, with a parameter like that.
MartinW:I would very much vote for an ignore feature - i think many forum fans would be happy to do a whip round to raise the funds for it too!
My vote too, or the current dues will be my last "whip round."
Or, just bring out the old golden boot... Frankly, I do not believe that the handful of derailers are even B&o customers -past, present, or future.
WHAT?! I can't live without hfat and is wonderful contributions t the operation and programming of the Beo5/6.
Please come back soon!
Barry
It gets my vote too!
How come, right at this moment, WE is shown as a founder member with 'f' below avatar?
vikinger: It gets my vote too! How come, right at this moment, WE is shown as a founder member with 'f' below avatar? Graham
He paid for it.
It's like watching TV, if you don't like it don't read it or ignore it!
Brengen & Ophalen
Leslie: It's like watching TV, if you don't like it don't read it or ignore it!
I do not disagree with you, but... They tend to bombard random threads at their will.
They have over-ran several threads with the same cr@p -over and over again.
Some of these threads were by brand new posters to BeoWorld -what a welcome!
ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ: Some of these threads were by brand new posters to BeoWorld -what a welcome!
You're right and to be honest I've been reading all these posts you probably referring to and as a not so good speaking/understanding english Dutch member I still don't know what all these discussion(s) from EW/E is about
Electrified: vikinger: It gets my vote too! How come, right at this moment, WE is shown as a founder member with 'f' below avatar? Graham He paid for it.
LOl... I did thanks to this lad who thought I should be a paying member because of all my nonsense. And I thought fair enough.
wonderfulelectric: Electrified: vikinger: It gets my vote too! How come, right at this moment, WE is shown as a founder member with 'f' below avatar? Graham He paid for it. LOl... I did thanks to this lad who thought I should be a paying member because of all my nonsense. And I thought fair enough.
The pair of you obviously do not know what a founder member is.
LOl... What doesn't the f just mean a paying member who help fund the site? Well I have been a member since way back when then I stopped paying... Changed Credit cards and no longer into B&O so much.... OMG! Reflecting upon this it was because the novelty of the lens based speakers wore off pretty quickly for me.
Then it was the A9 sparked my excitement in B&O all over again... Not to say I stopped buying B&O during the period in fact I got the Lab3s and Beosound 8 whilst I was away...
Hmmm... I wonder what some of you are thinking.... YES... The site was better whilst WE was away... Are you sure it is that bad? I mean I do have some valuable inputs.
vikinger:The pair of you obviously do not know what a founder member is.
It really bugs me just how unable you are to differentiate between the two of us. It's as if nuances are completely lost on you. I know, it must really be difficult, since we both have "electric" in our names.
In any case, I know full well what a founder is. It's just that quite a lot of forums have a "founder" status if you pay enough. It has nothing to do with actually being among the first, say, 100 people.
And as for you constantly bitching about this, it seems odd that you think someone responding and correcting the bullshit is the same as posting bullshit. Also, it seems that you're making more posts about WonElec and me, than you are posting other contents. It strikes me as slightly hypocritical to on one hand lament that people are debating, and on the other do nothing other than *** about it, and attempt to insult people in most of your posts. Seriously, it's plain for everyone to see that you're in no position to take the moral high ground here.
Electrified: vikinger:The pair of you obviously do not know what a founder member is. It really bugs me just how unable you are to differentiate between the two of us. It's as if nuances are completely lost on you. I know, it must really be difficult, since we both have "electric" in our names. In any case, I know full well what a founder is. It's just that quite a lot of forums have a "founder" status if you pay enough. It has nothing to do with actually being among the first, say, 100 people. And as for you constantly bitching about this, it seems odd that you think someone responding and correcting the bullshit is the same as posting bullshit. Also, it seems that you're making more posts about WonElec and me, than you are posting other contents. It strikes me as slightly hypocritical to on one hand lament that people are debating, and on the other do nothing other than *** about it, and attempt to insult people in most of your posts. Seriously, it's plain for everyone to see that you're in no position to take the moral high ground here.
No. What bugs me is that the pair of you manage to destroy just about every thread that starts off as a genuine member query or topic of interest.
It's a toxic combination. You can't even take a hint from the dozens of other posters who have commented on your behaviour.
vikinger: No. What bugs me is that the pair of you manage to destroy just about every thread that starts off as a genuine member query or topic of interest. It's a toxic combination. You can't even take a hint from the dozens of other posters who have commented on your behaviour.
And you can't give it a rest with your constant bitching. There are even threads where you have posted after the debate was over, seemingly just to reignite it. It's as if bitching about him and me gives you some sort of release. Or, to put it slightly less disturbing: As if you enjoy having something to *** about.
And with that said, I'll leave you alone. I can't deal with that much self-righteous nonsense at a time.
linder:Ignore feature is a great idea. It gets my vote.
A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ...
Guy:Mine too - and is it just me that thinks WE and E are one and the same person? A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ...
Please do.
This paranoid delusional behaviour from some of you are getting out of hand. Now we're the same person. I guess it truly is confusing to some of you that we both have "electric" in our names. The contents of our posts is an obvious sign of we're the same person, right? Talk about being paranoid and not able to differentiate between bullshit and correction of bullshit.
But, anyway, please do check our respective IPs. And when you do, please make your findings public, so that paranoia such as that can be put to bed.
I was actually being a little flippant, but your paranoidal response suggests that you are in no mood!
However, and on a serious note, much like hfat my enjoyment of Beoworld has fallen considerably in the last few weeks.
Guy:I was actually being a little flippant, but your paranoidal response suggests that you are in no mood!
Sorry, Vikingers replies had obviously gotten to me. I think I'll call it a night.
It's pretty unbelievable that two persons can change a whole forum. I have been observing from a passive point until now, but I think that it has come too far. Why can't the two of you carry a mature and polite conversation on a public forum is beyond me; please have your discussions elsewhere. I'd vote for the "ignore" function and harder judging moderators as I really start to dislike how pretty much half BeoWorld has been polluted. I am here to share my B&O experiences and help other users with problems and questions which is what the forum was intended for - not to be disturbed in the middle of reading a good thread because it becomes nonconstructive.
I can't stop being passive in this, but won't you two stop picking on each other on this site and turn to private conversations instead?
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Guy: linder:Ignore feature is a great idea. It gets my vote. Mine too - and is it just me that thinks WE and E are one and the same person? A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ...
With all due respect, Guy... It is a bit on the far side to think that it's the same person...Then he would have to be like "Dr. Jekyll and mr. Hyde"...
Funny, I thought WE and PaulW were the same person, and this part of the game got a bit weird and out of control.
Steffen: Guy: linder:Ignore feature is a great idea. It gets my vote. Mine too - and is it just me that thinks WE and E are one and the same person? A quick check of IP addresses perhaps ... With all due respect, Guy... It is a bit on the far side to think that it's the same person...Then he would have to be like "Dr. Jekyll and mr. Hyde"...
symmes: Funny, I thought WE and PaulW were the same person, and this part of the game got a bit weird and out of control.
Guess what...
hfat: Dear Beoworlders, When I got to know Beoworld, it was a forum gathering B&O enthusiasts, trying to be as helpful as possible to each other and discussing about their experiences with B&O stuff. I learned a lot that helped me making a giant leap from the old Avant times to new BV12 with some third party digital sources and HDMI driven link room devices. As my knowledge grew, I tried to be as helpful as possible, spending sometimes hours or days helping others to solve their problems. Recently the number posting, where some members present their opinion on everthing, whether they have personal experience or not, very aggressively. Beowold tends to be like any other AV-forum, I cannot feel the old Beowold spirit anymore. So I have decided to retire from Beoworld for a while and get back from time to time to see how things develope. regards hfat
Forums generally, can be fun and helpful places for people who share an interest to hang out and discuss topics of mutual interest and generally help and advise each other.
Unfortunately, I think the distance and anonymity involved of cyber space 'virtual environments' and the necessary text based communication, means that misunderstandings can easily arise, and tempers get frayed from time to time.
Also, particularly with audiophiles, one has this almost primal distinction between those who believe in comprehensive measurement by properly tertiary trained people, in conjunction with properly set up and conducted ABX blind testing, as a prerequisite to objective assessment and judgement about audio products, and those of a much more popular contemporary strain, who are happy to believe in pseudo science, insupportable marketing claims and sighted A/B's of products with no clear reference to any sort of musical or acoustical standard, as the de facto method of making (necessarily subjective) assessments about audio and audio products.
This latter approach seems very prevalent in the passive speaker, separates component market, where mixing and matching at a consumer level, with an ongoing 'need' for 'upgrades' is seemingly part and parcel of the consumer HiFi industry - particularly the so called high end - where profit via marketing to the oft gullible and obsessive audiophile seems to come before science, logic, reason and common sense.
I started out in HiFi as a means to an end - having high quality sound reproduction in the home vis a vis my musical interest and training - music has been a part of my life since I was a young child. However, I also found it very easy to get caught up in the subjective hype that is so very prevalent in the audiophile scene, and the arguments that go on at a forum level with the objective v's subjective viewpoint being almost the most contentious one, along with so called 'brand wars'.
I've had my share of unpleasant times on forums accordingly; being told that I was either deaf or needed to be taught how to listen, along with some other unmentionable expletives when I dared openly criticise the Naim products that I had bought new at great expense, only to later find that ES Sony did a better job - at much less cost and of course with nothing like the reputation and hype of Naim.
In my recent decision to purchase some new BeoLab 9's, I discussed my thoughts on another forum run by a maker of active speakers also, (and whose speakers I contemplated purchasing for a time) and found the technologies that B&O can bring to the table, denigrated and ridiculed - somewhat upsetting to say the least - as I have the highest respect for B&O's R&D and the quality of their staff re their qualifications and experience.
Unfortunately this is oft the way of forums; it was once said that opinions are free, and everyone has one, but clearly, to anyone with common sense and reason, not all opinions are equal - despite the fact that the internet allows anyone (trained and qualified or not) to express an opinion, that they then feel should be awarded the same recognition as everyone else.
I'd argue that an engineer, or someone with a PHd behind them is in a vastly more experienced and credible situation to offer a source of objective and factual information than an amateur such as myself commenting on something that interests me, just because I have access to the internet and an opinion.
Nonetheless, it seems a reality that wherever subjectivists and objectivists gather on forums, there will be arguments unfortunately. Personally, having been almost dragged into the dubious world of the audiophool with my Naim experience, my colours are firmly nailed to the mast of science and reason, and I have as little to do with the extremes of audiophile dis-ease, i.e. audiophillia, as possible, which includes avoiding oft pointless and circular arguments with them.
I'm also of the opinion that BeoWorld is pretty much rooted in science, logic, reason and objectivity, so it's probably fair to say the more extreme audiophile subjective viewpoints don't really go down so well.
As to boring people; well, I'm probably guilty perhaps, and would sincerely apologise if members have thought that of my writing - I tend to write quite long posts - however I do so because I'm mostly either too lazy or to short of time to do a lot of editing - most of my writing is 'off the cuff' so to speak, - but also I do try and explain things as much as possible, even if I end up repeating myself or going in to too much detail, as I'm all to well aware how misunderstandings can easily arise with written text, so at the risk of being a bit loquacious or boring perhaps with it, I hope to make my points as clear as possible and avoid ambiguity wherever possible.
On the whole though, all things considered, this is a fabulous forum IMHO - not just for B&O, but because of the common sense, wisdom and knowledge that is found and expressed; mostly free of the rancour and bellicose attitude that sadly permeates many audiophile forums on a reasonably regular basis.
Long may BeoWorld continue!
Kind regards
John...
Gosh....we WE, ....PauW and me ....are all the same person
Oh Gosh.... So dramatic... Reminds me of office politics and high school and aren't they sort of the same thing?
Yes I derail sometimes. But hey... I usually bring it back to the topic and most of my posts are related to the thread.
Oh never mind I kinda enjoy all the controversy that surrounds me well at least I try anyway. I can only try.
This discussion is getting too long!
As I wrote above:
"stay here - ignore the pollution".
That is all you need to do.
Every time I see a commend in a thread that is 'much-too-far-out-offtopic', I just think - and some times I reply - : "I choose to ignore your posting"....
...and keep on focusing on the topic/the question in the thread.
The 'ignore-button' is already there
And by the way....I do not ignore people - I ignore off-topic-content.
"Keep it cooling baby" - as good old Led Zeppelin used to sing.