ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Agree as to the after sales online support. Simply unworthy and disdainful of customers.
schatzoy:Agree as to the after sales online support. Simply unworthy and disdainful of customers.
But it was not a reaction on my post. Thus deleted my remark! Sorry.
Better support. Returning the terrible Explore they made me feel like I was at fault because I didn't like the way it sounded. Long process too.
Also Apple Music integration now that even google has done it.
Mostly a replacement for the beolab 17's.
--
BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
I really enjoy seeing how popular an update to BeoLab 17 appears to be.
A bit off topic but... I've had my BL18 in storage for two years and have had BL17 in their place. And the sound is fantastic. Especially the low-end, compared to BL18. Yes, BL18 is prettier but gosh, BL17 sounds great.
I look forward to seeing a BL17 replacement!
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Curly: What new products/features do we expect or hope to see in 2022? Stage mk2 with multi-speaker support BL17 replacement (Mozart) BL50 replacement (Mozart) Mozart software update to allow for speakers such as Level to be used as surrounds with a BeoVision 83" Harmony
What new products/features do we expect or hope to see in 2022?
Stage mk2 with multi-speaker support
BL17 replacement (Mozart)
BL50 replacement (Mozart)
Mozart software update to allow for speakers such as Level to be used as surrounds with a BeoVision
83" Harmony
Surprise but not only 83" inch is now possible with the G2, now also a 97"
Would be a great addition to the Harmony with 83" and 97"
Also worth to notice is that the bezel is smaller now, about 4.2 mm so they need to change the Eclipse and Harmony to fit the new size.
Link
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
I hope they will integrate with Roon!!
I would like to see that the Beocreate project would get a boost to upcycle more older products.
Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 3, Beolab 11, Beosound Balance Non GVA, H9i
Gaea:I would like to see that the Beocreate project would get a boost to upcycle more older products.
Emil Jensen: Also worth to notice is that the bezel is smaller now, about 4.2 mm so they need to change the Eclipse and Harmony to fit the new size. Link
If that's going to be the case many Eclipse owners will be slapped in the face again. As with the v1 they have been told the screen would be upgradeable. Then v2 came out as LG changed the panels, and now with v2 it could happen again. So this supposed 'partnership' is just B&O buying LG screens and that's it. I hope they made the soundcenter of the v2 a bit more flexible so it could allow thinner screen and bezels or maybe they can create a simple bracket to fit new panels. I'm just waiting for my Eclipse mk2 to arrive but now allready knowing that I can't upgrade the screen is a pity. Probably I won't need to upgrade in the next 4 year or so but after 4 or 5 years I usually tend to want take advantage of newer tech.
Anyway, just guessing, we will have to wait and see.
- Beovision Eclipse 55 Mk2 - Beolab 19 - Beosound Shape - Oppo UDP-203
In 2022, we will see: (1) Another B&O price hike, even after the two recent ones. (Oh, wait, that just happened! Fine, I predict yet *another* price hike in the fall.) (2) One of the few remaining North American dealer locations will close. (3) An Asian consumer electronics firm will introduce their own "haute design" audio / video using high-spec components & stainless steel, comparable to B&O quality under 1/2 the price. (4) Sonos will fire that programmer who insists "tap to join" is too poorly specified to implement in their multi-source/zone system, and will (finally) add B&O's feature to their speakers. (5) Apple will use out-of-band signalling in the ISM range to supplement Bluetooth audio transmission to their headphones (& goggles!). They will try to patent it as if it weren't obvious, and nobody, including B&O, will dare implement lossless to their BT headphones. (6) BO(DC) stock price volatility will increase.
The price rises are taking the prices of some of their higher end products borderline unaffordable, personally speaking.
While of course we all understand the current price pressures, and some reflection in higher prices, they are where they are, and the starting point for these price rises is already high.
As I posted on the price rise thread, one might think 10% on (say) the price of an A9 and BS2 is understandable, thats on the back of similar rises every year for the last few years though. My A9 Mk2 and BS2 (bought 2015, early 2017) cost me 3100GBP - at today's prices those 2 are now 4600GBP. For secondary room speakers, I'd never spend that much now. They're roughly up 10% per year every year!
Anyway, we're close to the time when the higher end stuff is unaffordable (for me), and the middle stuff (A9 for example) is hard to justify.
I strongly suspect they will struggle to grow sales this year.
trackbeo: In 2022, we will see: (1) Another B&O price hike, even after the two recent ones. (Oh, wait, that just happened! Fine, I predict yet *another* price hike in the fall.) (2) One of the few remaining North American dealer locations will close. (3) An Asian consumer electronics firm will introduce their own "haute design" audio / video using high-spec components & stainless steel, comparable to B&O quality under 1/2 the price. (4) Sonos will fire that programmer who insists "tap to join" is too poorly specified to implement in their multi-source/zone system, and will (finally) add B&O's feature to their speakers. (5) Apple will use out-of-band signalling in the ISM range to supplement Bluetooth audio transmission to their headphones (& goggles!). They will try to patent it as if it weren't obvious, and nobody, including B&O, will dare implement lossless to their BT headphones. (6) BO(DC) stock price volatility will increase.
Sandyb:The price rises are taking the prices of some of their higher end products borderline unaffordable, personally speaking. While of course we all understand the current price pressures, and some reflection in higher prices, they are where they are, and the starting point for these price rises is already high. As I posted on the price rise thread, one might think 10% on (say) the price of an A9 and BS2 is understandable, thats on the back of similar rises every year for the last few years though. My A9 Mk2 and BS2 (bought 2015, early 2017) cost me 3100GBP - at today's prices those 2 are now 4600GBP. For secondary room speakers, I'd never spend that much now. They're roughly up 10% per year every year! Anyway, we're close to the time when the higher end stuff is unaffordable (for me), and the middle stuff (A9 for example) is hard to justify. I strongly suspect they will struggle to grow sales this year.
Well I get it / understand price rises to reflect recent cost increases, and I suspect 10% isn't probably enough to compensate.
What I dont get is, as my A9 MK2 / BS2 examples showed, what justifies the almost 10% per year those (and other) products experienced in 2015, 2016, 2017 etc etc......
There may be a plenty of other cost increases in the past that did in fact justify those other yearly 10% increases, but certainly labour / materials cost inflation was much much lower back then, so its trickier to justify in my mind.
Anyway, whatever the reasons, and as discussed on Mondays podcast, there's a danger that some of us, with money but not necessarily very rich, get priced out of much of the product range.
vlohjr1: Sandyb: The price rises are taking the prices of some of their higher end products borderline unaffordable, personally speaking. While of course we all understand the current price pressures, and some reflection in higher prices, they are where they are, and the starting point for these price rises is already high. As I posted on the price rise thread, one might think 10% on (say) the price of an A9 and BS2 is understandable, thats on the back of similar rises every year for the last few years though. My A9 Mk2 and BS2 (bought 2015, early 2017) cost me 3100GBP - at today's prices those 2 are now 4600GBP. For secondary room speakers, I'd never spend that much now. They're roughly up 10% per year every year! Anyway, we're close to the time when the higher end stuff is unaffordable (for me), and the middle stuff (A9 for example) is hard to justify. I strongly suspect they will struggle to grow sales this year. Absolutely agree the h95 is now £800 and the 28s cannot be more than £1000 a few days ago.
Sandyb: The price rises are taking the prices of some of their higher end products borderline unaffordable, personally speaking. While of course we all understand the current price pressures, and some reflection in higher prices, they are where they are, and the starting point for these price rises is already high. As I posted on the price rise thread, one might think 10% on (say) the price of an A9 and BS2 is understandable, thats on the back of similar rises every year for the last few years though. My A9 Mk2 and BS2 (bought 2015, early 2017) cost me 3100GBP - at today's prices those 2 are now 4600GBP. For secondary room speakers, I'd never spend that much now. They're roughly up 10% per year every year! Anyway, we're close to the time when the higher end stuff is unaffordable (for me), and the middle stuff (A9 for example) is hard to justify. I strongly suspect they will struggle to grow sales this year.
Absolutely agree the h95 is now £800 and the 28s cannot be more than £1000 a few days ago.
Perfect analysis, I would have said exactly the same.
What we will see in 2022?
Price increase (✅ Done)
Customer support struggling more and more, but they stay polite (✅ Done)
Closing the Quality check department (✅ Almost done)
Selling B-ware products and tell you’re the first with that problem (✅ Beoremote One and Halo)
Struggling with integrating the Mozart platform to the Beovision (✅ work in progress)
Repair centre that can’t handle the work (✅ Done)
Customers who gonna leave the brand (✅ work in progress)
New management team as the old can’t get the brand profitable.
A beautiful brand that will get down due to mismanagement and forget their customers….
I’m not positive…..
Anyway, also a version of Beoplay Portal for PlayStation (or more "generic", i.e. for all consoles except Xbox) is coming for sure in 2022.
When launched, Portal first appeared in the app just as "Beoplay Portal". Then after a few months it changed to "Beoplay Portal XBox" - which already meant that a "Beoplay Portal non-XBox" was incoming.
Recently they've changed that to "Beoplay Portal family".
Anything clearer than this is needed to confirm the existence of a different variant of Portal? I don't think so, and it's too early for a 2nd Gen (unless it will be "Beoplay Portal XBox with no static noise" ), so...
(unless they're referring to the headset they'll be launching in partnership with Cisco, however it would be odd to have it grouped together with Portal in the app, even though the base hardware is the same - or a possibility is that for development testing they've grouped it under Portal? I don't know, but anyway it's less likely than a Portal for other consoles)
I tend to think it will be for PS and Switch. Anyway, I am wondering how much it is costed B&O to invest in Portal and whether they regretted making it, given the flop of the Xbox in the current consoles generation against PS5.
vlohjr1:If the stage MK2 comes out this year will it be the end for all beovisions?
No, look at the Contour, this is a stage with LG panel but combined in a B&O design. It's not for everyone but it's an example that it will not be the end for all Beovisions.
Not everyone is so optimistic about B&O here but just think about it what they are doing and have done in terms of design, quality and integration. No other brand is doing this at this level... There are possibilties but you have to accept multiple brands working together which is just not seamless.
For example a Logitech harmony can do a lot but it's not 100% as smooth as what Beoremote can do when all things are connected properly.
swestland: vlohjr1:If the stage MK2 comes out this year will it be the end for all beovisions? No, look at the Contour, this is a stage with LG panel but combined in a B&O design. It's not for everyone but it's an example that it will not be the end for all Beovisions. Not everyone is so optimistic about B&O here but just think about it what they are doing and have done in terms of design, quality and integration. No other brand is doing this at this level... There are possibilties but you have to accept multiple brands working together which is just not seamless. For example a Logitech harmony can do a lot but it's not 100% as smooth as what Beoremote can do when all things are connected properly.
I have tried many solutions before Beovision, one thing was that I did not have the money, but also I felt that BEOVISION was overprised.
When I bought the Eclipse, I have never looked back, no solution I have tried gave the same pleasure of control and integration. Yes it is exspensive but imo well worth it.
The CEO have said that Beovision is the plan in the future also,
Mr 10Percent: As indicated, it is my "fantasy" business plan for B&O in 2022. I firmly believe they need to hunker down and weather what I think will be a nasty financial storm in 2022. Too many products, too few sales - particularly of some of the "older" lines.
As indicated, it is my "fantasy" business plan for B&O in 2022.
I firmly believe they need to hunker down and weather what I think will be a nasty financial storm in 2022. Too many products, too few sales - particularly of some of the "older" lines.
Also, not forgetting it's not going to get easier, quickly, to find the chips required for these products. Audi told me today that demand for new cars is now pushing their cars to 9-10 months from order depending on the model. If you order a new Audi today, you might receive it....just before 2023!
Pepole forget there's chips in every B&O device. It's a tiny company. People casually list a tonne of new products on here expecting B&O to find resource but seem to overlook the rest of the market.
swestland: If that's going to be the case many Eclipse owners will be slapped in the face again. As with the v1 they have been told the screen would be upgradeable. Then v2 came out as LG changed the panels, and now with v2 it could happen again. So this supposed 'partnership' is just B&O buying LG screens...
If that's going to be the case many Eclipse owners will be slapped in the face again. As with the v1 they have been told the screen would be upgradeable. Then v2 came out as LG changed the panels, and now with v2 it could happen again. So this supposed 'partnership' is just B&O buying LG screens...
Who said there's a partnership? I think that's just something speculated here and sales people at your dealership like to tell you to get people to buy an Eclipse. LG doesn't design panels for B&O. It might help them link up their products through software, but not much more beyond this.
Thinking you can drop in a new LG panel in 5 years is bizarre. Would you truly believe the LG 2021 panel (G1) will be exactly the same shape and design as a 2026 panel? Incredible.
Not sure what the right term is to describe the relationship - but B&O themselves talk about the agreement / partnership (whatever), and referred to it a couple of investor presentations ago, as the agreement has been renewed / extended for another few years.
That all said, not sure why some dealers sold Eclipse V1s as upgradeable - none of the dealers in London I spoke to used that description, and it was never sold as a modular screen future proof unit around here.
The V2 may be different to some extent though - in that the changes made do make dropping in future screens much more plausible.
But like you, I always remain somewhat sceptical - too many uncertainties over the next 5 (or so) years to be able to rely on such "promises".
A new limited ultramarine color BeoPlay EQ in Japan .....
https://beostore.jp/blogs/brandnews/20210107-01
ooooh, I see still 4 other items from the new "Moment Collection" in blue
Ushering a prosperous Lunar New Year with a new limited edition collection from Bang & Olufsen, featuring four classic products in a bold Indigo hue which symbolizes vitality and the future. Stay tuned for more information on local arrival and availability.
https://www.picuki.com/media/2745114620877447883
https://www.picuki.com/media/2744322064608341200
moxxey: swestland: If that's going to be the case many Eclipse owners will be slapped in the face again. As with the v1 they have been told the screen would be upgradeable. Then v2 came out as LG changed the panels, and now with v2 it could happen again. So this supposed 'partnership' is just B&O buying LG screens... Who said there's a partnership? I think that's just something speculated here and sales people at your dealership like to tell you to get people to buy an Eclipse. LG doesn't design panels for B&O. It might help them link up their products through software, but not much more beyond this. Thinking you can drop in a new LG panel in 5 years is bizarre. Would you truly believe the LG 2021 panel (G1) will be exactly the same shape and design as a 2026 panel? Incredible.
No speculation, quite clearly stated by B&O: https://investor.bang-olufsen.com/news-releases/news-release-details/bang-olufsen-enters-strategic-technology-partnership-lg/
I'm not believing the G1 panel will have the same shape and design as in 2026 but as many people said in the forums, the Mk2 eclipse is sold as upgradeable in the future. On the other hand, B&O rather wants you to buy a total new system instead of just having to swap out and change to a new LG panel. Thats no business for them.
swestland: I'm not believing the G1 panel will have the same shape and design as in 2026 but as many people said in the forums, the Mk2 eclipse is sold as upgradeable in the future. On the other hand, B&O rather wants you to buy a total new system instead of just having to swap out and change to a new LG panel. Thats no business for them.
This is why I suggest that B&O make an Eclipse-grade soundbar/soundcentre. On the contrary of not generating sales, my "belief" would be that it generates more sales:-
1. The Eclipse is a GBP12k TV system. The OLED screens get wreaked in 2 minutes with burn-in. Why have a throwaway GBP9k every few years. Makes. No. Sense. To. Anyone. But. The. stupid. or. wasteful.
2. By having a long-lived Soundcentre and replacing a disposable Screen commodity, it gives a degree of confidence that your investment will get a half-decent return.
3. It will also generate a trade-in pathway once more which will act as a gateway to younger/more cost-conscious purchasers to start buying into an ecosystem. I think every single source B&O has made over the last 10 years has lacked this upgradeability (BS5, Moment, Eclipse, etc..) or tradability as second life product.
Extra thoughts/edit.
As previously indicated, think how the game would be with an Almando-type sound processor. All your legacy, current and future loudspeakers locked-in. What if there was Bluenote-grade streamer (not a fan of by the way but demonstrates my point) - ala BC5000-7000 (modular box styling - if not in a soundcentre). It would be no more expensive than a Moment but clearly upgradeable in terms of feature sets and quality but could be a "rolling replacement" as one decides to upgrade.
To me, this lack of thinking by B&O (in my mind I should add) is why the big systems dont sell, the TVs are struggling and B&O is forced to downsize to a boom-box/headphones retailer. They have simply made products that are too grand in execution with a new threshold in life cycle expectancy, with a cost comparable to upper-end hi-end but now only delivering mediocre performance.
I used to defend B&o against a couple of crazies who were on this forum some time ago with the exact same arguments. I think they were unfair and premature. Not any longer. sound/vision quality has exponentially improved elsewhere and B&Os pricings do not match that quality (aside from the 2-3 exceptional products they still continue to make).
Normann: I hope they will integrate with Roon!!
This one seems like it should be doable and would be welcome but not sure if B&O is motivated.
I mean, is there any reason B&O shouldn't offer native integration of the major streaming services like much (or most) of the less expensive competition does? Look at the enormous list of streaming services supported natively by BluOS. Can't we at least have the major ones?
Apple Music
Amazon Music
TIDAL
Qobuz
etc.
This is a software and licensing issue and seems like it could be addressed.
Hi Matthew, good to see you back.
Even Roon only has Tidal and Qobuz and their entire business is packaging music content.
Apple and Amazon are very different beasts and no amount of licensing fees will get them to disturb their eco-systems. It’s great that the B&O modern speakers are Roon endpoints but with only 100k users (it takes Apple about 24 hours to get this number of subscribers) what is Roon’s future?Rumours are that there is a Roon rival coming soon with no annual fee and the big question is whether Roon will even survive.
If/when the promised Spotify HiRes arrives it should offer a real alternative given B&Os long term integration but the landscape is changing very quickly.
Rum
Meant to say that BluOS and Rose are streaming hubs and it’s a great pity that B&O haven’t got one to be able to compete in this market 😒
Any chance of a newly produced turntable ? Not refurbished or limited edition, etc.
Bestwick8: Any chance of a newly produced turntable ? Not refurbished or limited edition, etc.
I think it’d be more realistic for them to recreate other old models following the 4000c than make new models. My hope is that they would make a new one one day, but I can’t see that happen even at their 100-year anniversary either.
swestland: moxxey: swestland: If that's going to be the case many Eclipse owners will be slapped in the face again. As with the v1 they have been told the screen would be upgradeable. Then v2 came out as LG changed the panels, and now with v2 it could happen again. So this supposed 'partnership' is just B&O buying LG screens... Who said there's a partnership? I think that's just something speculated here and sales people at your dealership like to tell you to get people to buy an Eclipse. LG doesn't design panels for B&O. It might help them link up their products through software, but not much more beyond this. Thinking you can drop in a new LG panel in 5 years is bizarre. Would you truly believe the LG 2021 panel (G1) will be exactly the same shape and design as a 2026 panel? Incredible. No speculation, quite clearly stated by B&O: https://investor.bang-olufsen.com/news-releases/news-release-details/bang-olufsen-enters-strategic-technology-partnership-lg/ I'm not believing the G1 panel will have the same shape and design as in 2026 but as many people said in the forums, the Mk2 eclipse is sold as upgradeable in the future. On the other hand, B&O rather wants you to buy a total new system instead of just having to swap out and change to a new LG panel. Thats no business for them.
"BV Eclipse GX Screen mount interface".
This suggest such an bracket/interface does exist and if it is what I think it is it should confirm that Harmony and Eclipse should be able to accept new type of LG Panels in the future. Anyone have more info on this?
What is more or less confirmed: an updated BeoPlay Portal (Bluetooth only, PC version?)TTUBEOPLAYPLPC
Also new... A Bluetooth audio dongle
TTUBPLINKC
kuyttendaele:Also new... A Bluetooth audio dongle TTUBPLINKC
It is called Beoplay Link C,
It is a USB Audio Dongle.
My boring guess is that is have something to do with the Beoplay Portal for PC and Playstation.
Emil Jensen:It is called Beoplay Link C, It is a USB Audio Dongle. My boring guess is that is have something to do with the Beoplay Portal for PC and Playstation. Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence