ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have a technical query in regard to my ever trusty Beomaster 2400. While I will never be a tech I do have a hunger to know why things happen with these aging electronics.
For those of you with long memories you might recall I was having problems with the right channel dropping out. For a time I was convinced that it was a switch issue as pressing the selector button harder (Record, Tape, or Radio) would bring the right channel back. This worked for a time, but eventually the 2400 had to be turned off and then back on to regain the right channel.
The next phase had the right channel displaying poor sound quality and a progressive fading of the volume in the right channel. I responded by only using this amp at modest volume which appeared to be satisfactory.
I also noted that when the right channel faded the amp would become quite hot. I assumed that the end was in sight, but continued my light use and with less regularity. Once again subscribing to the theory if you don’t use it, why have it?
Now for what I don’t understand. One day I noted the aroma of burning electronics, for me the kiss of death, but instead of failure the Beomaster 2400 came back to full form. I carefully increased the volume and found the volume in both channels identical (for a change) and the sound quality truly excellent. EXCELLENT!
I asked my audiophile buddy in California what gives and he said that either a transistor or resistor burnt up and was “bypassed,” and I should thank my “lucky stars that it didn’t take out everything south of it on the board.” He went on to say that had it been a capacitor the amp would have failed or at the very least partially failed.
My friend went on to say if I took out my tester I would be horrified at how far off spec it was, as if I were able to properly read the schematics.
This was back in late June and ever since the 2400 performs with distinction AND even under heavy demand the amp only gets mildly warm, never hot.
I didn’t mention this earlier as I fully expected the resurrection to be shot lived, but as this has been 5 months with regular use, now I am most curious what transpired here.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
I received a private message in regard to my Beogram 2400 question which I would like to share. The message was both interesting as well as unsettling.
I was told what occurred was nothing short of a miracle and not at all what was to be expected. That gave me real pause as I don’t like “counting” on miracles or dumb luck…. but in this case I’ll take it.
I knew the 2400 had “given notice” which is why I bought the cheap Beomaster 1000. (Not my best ever idea, but it was local an inexpensive, so I gave it a shot.)
The right channel slowly losing volume was a crystal clear sign that the end was near, BUT the incredibly HOT heat veins in the back removed any possible doubt. The 2400 gets the “award” for the hottest amp I have ever felt.
Then as previously mentioned the unmistakable smell of burning components….. I am trying to paint a visual for you here. The amp is hot as hell and burning, so I waited for the demise, but it didn’t happen. Kind of like watching a train wreck, I didn’t know what else to do but wait for the end.
The exact timeframe is a fog at this point, but after say 5 minutes it occurred to me that the right speaker was now playing at the same volume to the left. So I got “brave” and slowly turned up the volume. I then checked the heat veins in the back which were now very warm, but no longer hot.
I turned off the 2400 thinking well that was nice, but it probably won’t turn on the next time I try. But it did. I still didn’t take this seriously as I figured as hot as the 2400 got, even if something “cured” itself (a technical impossibility) it must have damaged other components with that much heat.
It has been a couple of months of regular use like I said and as I use this amp for background music I don’t pay as close attention to it like I might with the others.
Yesterday was really the first time in ages that I actually sat down and listened, I was amazed, blown away actually by the fantastic sound quality. The upper end was/is SO clear, really perfect in a word, and all that lovely bass, which I so crave. I played a coupe of records and was smitten with the whole set-up Beomaster 2400, Beogram 4002, Beocord 8004, and S 45.2 speakers.
After a couple of records (3) pretty much at or near full volume I checked the heat veins and they were at most 100° F. Just slightly above body temperature.
If I knew I was going to be granted a miracle I probably would have chosen something more pressing in my life, but I’ll happily accept this miracle resurrection of my Beomaster 2400 as it adds a good deal of joy to my household duties.
With older electronics anything can go wrong. You may fix one thing and something else fails. But while everything is working properly there is much enjoyment to be had, part of the allure of owning vintage electronics.
What happened with my Beomaster 2400 is quite out of the ordinary and to me makes for quite a good story. The best part of this story is that it is true.
I wish I remembered who told me to USE my equipment (why else have it) as I’d like to thank him.
What you possibly have here is a class A amplifier!
They reportedly sound better than class A/B or B amplifiers.
But how it survives puzzles me. Don't push your luck Jeff!
Jacques
chartz: What you possibly have here is a class A amplifier! They reportedly sound better than class A/B or B amplifiers. But how it survives puzzles me. Don't push your luck Jeff!
Hi Jacques,
A Class A amplifier it really, really is.
Not to worry, I will look after it like a father does his child.
I admit I don’t know the terms Class A, A/B, or B amplifiers, but this Beomaster 2400 is definitely a winner.
As for the sound; I had another session this evening with this Beomaster 2400 and critically speaking (that means objective as before a judge) this amp remains absolutely superb; in utter spite of what happened to it.
Aging electronics on rare occasions reflect art and life more than the sum of their parts, if that makes any sense at all.
Engineering reality aside, this Beomaster 2400 is still here, ready and able to bedazzle.
Push my luck? I understand your concern; I really do so I’d like to try to assure you that I am doing my best not to push it. Using equipment with known issues runs the risk of doing extensive damage, I know this, but in the final analysis, it is a judgment call.
The sensible thing when an amplifier displays trouble is to have it fixed. You know this, Søren knows this, Martin certainly knows this, and so do I. But where do I start?
I have four amplifiers that should be serviced: Beomaster 1000, 2400, 4400, and 4500. Plus if that were not enough my BeoCenter 9000 also could use a service.
The Beomaster 4500 is boxed up as it is functioning, but barely. The Beomaster 1000 if given regular use would surely join the 4500, so it sits on the ML-2 cabinet looking handsome, but not plugged in.
The Beomaster 4400 with all that happened to it (we can skip the details, as I don’t want to relive that again.) has managed to sort itself out, so it gets used.
The Beomaster 2400 performed splendidly for an extended period of time after the right channel displayed real issues, but recently the left channel has begun displaying problems, most notably in the bass section. If pushed it sound exactly like the woofer was blown, which it isn’t. So I don’t push it and so far so good.
The same is true, if less dramatically in regard to the BeoCenter 9000 which automatically reduces the volume if pressed, far below what this amp should be capable of.
So now on to the math. Conservatively speaking it is $400 (€546) each; shipping to Denmark multiplied by five and that is a whopping $2,000 (€2,711) one way, or $4,000 (€5,422) with return. Now that is just for the shipping, having nothing to do with the unknown repair costs which could be considerable.
The above number plus repair costs is simply impossible for me at this time, so I get to make decisions. Five units that need repair, should I just not use them, or try to use judgment? I chose the latter.
The Beomaster 4500 and Beomaster 1000 need to be temporally retired and so they are.
The Beomaster 4400 has performed admirably for about a year with my fear of it catching fire long since abated, based on predictions that it could bust into flames.
I mean seriously here, my only stereophonic equipment that actually caught on fire was the McIntosh C-27 Pre-amp, and it was rebuilt by the FACTORY! That really shouldn’t have happened, but it did. Low power requirements notwithstanding, the on/off switch burnt up. (I have written about this in another post.)
The BeoCenter 9000 doesn’t like to be driven, or more accurately will not be driven, so I respect this limitation.
And that brings me to the Beomaster 2400, the subject of this post. I have only speculation to go by vis-à-vis what happened to the right channel and the same holds true for the current issues in the left channel.
Will the outcome of this new malady be has satisfactory as with the right channel? I don’t know and doubt if anyone does without serious, methodical step-by-step testing.
So I use the Beomaster 2400 with caution keeping the volume moderate and monitoring the amplifier temperature.
Do I enjoy playing nursemaid to an amplifier? Not really, but I find it a reasonable concession in order to continue using it while enjoying the music it provides.
It is a bit like comparing apples to oranges but years ago friends and family thought I was absolutely nuts to drive a Renault R5 with 300,000 miles (483,000 km) on the odometer from Seattle, Washington to Portland, Oregon to attend the annual Portland Swap Meet (Autojumble for those in the UK). Did that two years running without the slightest problem and oh could that little car hold a lot of stuff!
Anyway, I’d like to think that I managed to persuade you that there is rational thinking behind my decision to continue to use some compromised electronic equipment with care and attention rather than merely pushing my luck. If not, hey, I tried.
I think you should bite the bullet and send the BM4400 to Martin for a full service. it is arguably the pick of the bunch and would certainly be worth some TLC to ensure it stays in reliable service.
Drew
Piaf:So now on to the math. Conservatively speaking it is $400 (€546) each; shipping to Denmark multiplied by five and that is a whopping $2,000 (€2,711) one way, or $4,000 (€5,422) with return. Now that is just for the shipping, having nothing to do with the unknown repair costs which could be considerable.
Why not try either, http://aminaaudio.com/ or http://atlantic-systems.com/ , I know Rich is using Amina, and have seen Atlantic being used by other members, both with good results, and you will probably get your repairs done for a price that will be lower than the shipping price to DK.
My offer to help is still standing, and I´m sure other members "over here" are ready to lend a helping hand, and as Jacques said before: "dont push your luck".
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hi Drew and Søren,
I don’t entirely know how to respond to either of you…. beyond my sincere thank you!
Søren, who is a real gentleman, always manages to give me pause. As such I will take another look at shipping costs and other available options. I really will.
Søren you know how much your offer means to me, however what stops me in my tracks is the shipping costs to Denmark. (I am not sure what they are to Texas.) First they are MUCH higher than nearby Germany and in addition Danish Customs insists of charging horrendous duty as if the item were being imported, in spite of repeated objections by Martin.
Martin’s charges for repairs have always been most reasonable, so the problem is NOT the cost of the repairs, but rather the cost of shipping these heavy items. Actually the cost of repairs is more like the icing on the unpleasant shipping cost cake.
Another issue in using anyone other than Martin, whom I trust completely (Søren I am speaking of repair facilities, you are excluded from this comment!) I would never send one of my better amps to an unknown repair shop. As such I would first send the Beomaster 1000 to see what kind of communication they have and what their workmanship is like.
Drew, your comment on the surface makes excellent sense as the Beomaster 4400 is the best of the lot, but things are considerably more complicated than this situation appears. Flat out the only amplifier I am less concerned about is the BeoCenter 9000. Whatever happened to the 4400 is done, finished, over.
However what is going on with the Beomaster 2400 is current. If I am to be embarrassed for not taking good advice and “don’t push your luck,” it will be over the 2400. The right channel had some sort of soft landing after one or more components burnt up, but whatever is going on in the left channel is different and I am in no position to predict the outcome.
As a result of both your comments I am going to regroup and check all my options again. I haven’t posted my failed efforts at finding a repair shop, but to date I have compiled a list of shops NOT to send your equipment.
Thank you both for your interest and concern, which are most appreciated.
OK guys, here’s the update.
I searched for weeks to find a suitable repair shop….. heard it all, too busy, not taking in new jobs, and on and on. The shop in Quebec would have been ideal, only they are just not up to any new work.
Finally found a shop well recommend in southern California that has a spot for me in January.
So now what to do?
My Beomaster 2400 burnt up all kinds of components in the left channel while badly overheating, settled down for a few weeks, than the left channel went through the miseries, totally different scenario with weird treble and frightening bass….. like in speaker damaging bass.
Now both channels are back to normal. Hours of moderately high volume barely get this 2400 tepid, let alone hot and the sound quality, although not 100% perfect is quite pleasing.
So I decided to first send my barely functioning Beomaster 4500 in for repair. It was my favourite amplifier of all time and has been boxed up for a couple of years.
Once repaired the Beomaster 4500 will sit perfectly besides the Beogram 4500 CD player that has been useless for ages with its 7-pin connector. How I will be happy to have this pair back in their former glory!
If the budget allows the faithful Beomaster 2400 will follow and I am going to request a detailed list of what has happened to this amplifier. The sheer magnitude of damage this 2400 has suffered and still it functions needs to be documented.
Personal note to Søren. Please know my very good friend, that I very much appreciate your offer to repair my 4400, but I really want the 4500 repaired first and as quickly as possible. It is a remarkable little amp and I want it back.
The next repair I absolute OWE to the Beomaster 2400.
We can talk further, if you like, about the 4400, but it is just fine, at least for the moment.
Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there
Søren Mexico: Piaf:So now on to the math. Conservatively speaking it is $400 (€546) each; shipping to Denmark multiplied by five and that is a whopping $2,000 (€2,711) one way, or $4,000 (€5,422) with return. Now that is just for the shipping, having nothing to do with the unknown repair costs which could be considerable. Why not try either, http://aminaaudio.com/ or http://atlantic-systems.com/ , I know Rich is using Amina, and have seen Atlantic being used by other members, both with good results, and you will probably get your repairs done for a price that will be lower than the shipping price to DK. My offer to help is still standing, and I´m sure other members "over here" are ready to lend a helping hand, and as Jacques said before: "dont push your luck".
Søren,
I have sent an email to Benny as you suggested to see if he is taking in new work. Of all the recommended shops I have contacted thus far have one thing in common; they are so busy they really don’t want any new business. One went so far as to say they were in a position to only work of equipment that interests them.
So we’ll see what Benny has to say.
BeoMegaMan:As a man that works with Benny Amina all the time, I just want to second the recommendations to send the unit to Amina Audio in Georgia. Highest of caliber repair/reman.
Thank you for the recommendation. I have sent Benny a note.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
DMacri:I can say Atlantic Systems is a good shop too. Recommended.
Benny said that he too is booked up until well into Janaury, so I guess patience will be required. At least he was interested in both the Beomaster 4500 and 2400.
So I am finally making progress.
I also sent a note to Atlantic, at your suggestion…. and Søren’s.
At least I discovered that shipping is the same anywhere within the US and almost half the tariff to Denmark.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Jeff, do you need parts for you BM4500?
Brengen & Ophalen
Leslie: Jeff, do you need parts for you BM4500?
Hey Leslie,
Always good to hear from you!!
Need parts? I have no idea because I don’t have a clue what is wrong.
Unlike my Beomaster 4400 and 2400; the 4500 developed this HORRENDOUS screech that made it impossible to use, and never recovered.
This amp died a quick death and stayed dead.
Members have been helping me locate a shop without the insane shipping costs that are Denmark’s. The US is virtually half the price and I have a good shot at no duty in either direction, unlike Denmark which ALLWAYS charges duty, no matter how persuasively Martin tries to convince them the item is only coming into Denmark for repair.
I have contacted 5 shops, 2 said sorry, no, 2 yes (but we are booked for a month), and I haven’t heard back form the last.
Take care!
Dont get impatient Jeff, I have waiting times here, 4-6 weeks from DK, 2 weeks from the US, for spares, or sometimes I wait up to 6 months to pick up my buys from TX, Ship your Items after Xmas, the Xmas rush is bad for sensitive products. Waiting for something good always gets me dreaming of how good it will be. Good luck with the repairs.
Søren Mexico: Dont get impatient Jeff, I have waiting times here, 4-6 weeks from DK, 2 weeks from the US, for spares, or sometimes I wait up to 6 months to pick up my buys from TX, Ship your Items after Xmas, the Xmas rush is bad for sensitive products. Waiting for something good always gets me dreaming of how good it will be. Good luck with the repairs.
Hi Søren,
Patience is one of my few virtues.
I am much more interested in finding a quality shop that I can depend upon like I do Martin’s….. and that is a tall act to follow.
And I will.
Like most members here at BeoWorld I take my ownership of vintage electronics seriously while truly enjoying them in the process.
With a little judgment and a bit of luck I should have my much talked about Beomaster 4500 back here up and running like the day it was new, sometime in February.
The Beomaster 2400 will then follow.
Part of me can’t wait to hear how much of this amplifier was damaged and how it continued to function against all odds.
After that we will see how much of a hit this double repair did to my budget….. or what’s left of it in order to plan the future.
Thanks, as always for the words of encouragement.
Hey Søren,
My Beomaster 4500 left January 2nd as promised and “apparently cleared Customs Canada in record time. They claim that Benny will get it on Monday, I say Friday. Either way he’ll have it next week.
Benny is just back from vacation, so he will need a week before looking at my 4500. Should be interesting to hear what he finds.
Even MORE interesting to get a detailed report on the Beomaster 2400. I really want to know what all happened to this amp and how in God’s name it survived! I am going for Benny’s complete renewal including all bulbs….. they all still work but won’t for a whole lot longer.
That said, with all the damage this small wonder has suffered, it still soldiers on. Tomorrow is my big time laundry day so that means its B&O Beomaster 2400 time!
Happy New Year, my friend!
The Beomaster 4500 arrived after a protracted visit to the Deep South. So how did it go you maybe wondering? Oy vey, where do I begin?
Picture this, I unpack the BM 4500 and it looks great and take it upstairs to swap with the Beomaster 2400. So far so good. From here on in it was a scene from a Marx Brothers movie and one of their lesser ones at that.
Turning the BM 4500 on its side there is a loud thump like a D battery loose in a tunnel. I didn’t open up the BM 4500, but something moderately heavy is sliding around inside loose. Have to check this out later.
This was clearly an inauspicious beginning if ever there was one.
The BM 4500 connection panel is so much better than the BM 2400 which aims downward, none the less with progressive lenses I don’t see detail all that well, especially at an angle, so I get out my regular trusty flashlight, but it doesn’t work. Try as I might I just can’t quite see the speaker connectors…. this goes on forever. (OK 5 minutes, but it felt like forever.)
Next I connect the Beogram 4500 CD player which plays, but with no sound. I tried pulling the DIN connector in and out to no effect. I begin getting a sinking feeling….. like some great Gypsy curse had befallen me.
On to the FM, the first thing that actually works, but the sound was scratchy.
Time to try the Beogram 4002, which of necessity is a real Rube Goldberg affair in that although the 4002 has DIN connectors as does the BM 4500, the BM 4500 does not have a phone pre-amp, thus the need for an external pre-amp that is made for RCA connectors.
All of my DIN to RCA connectors are “male” and I needed a “female” thus the only one I had in my stereo dungeon was made for a tape recorder with 4 leads rather than two. Naturally the way this was going I chose the input leads rather than the output so all I got was a nasty hiss.
I then tried the other two leads; this time the output….BUT didn’t quite insert the DIN connector fully, as by this time I was getting it bit rattled. OMG what a horrific sound the 4002 delivered.
Then like magic, the shroud of doom lifted. I fully re-inserted the Rube Goldberg collection of connectors from the Beogram 4002 and fantastic sound!
I connected my Beocord 8004 and it worked too. Back to the 4002 and it is still fine, so I again tried the silent Beogram 4500 but now it too was playing, changing tracks, the works.
So I thought lets give the FM another look, still scratchy BUT when the announcer identified the station, it and the other three choices were all out of Seattle….. and this with a ribbon antenna. (This explains the scratchy reception!)
Persistence triumphs!
So how does it sound? I’ll be honest; it is too early to make a definitive judgment, however at the very least, if sounds extremely good. In fact it sounds like a clone of the BeoCenter 9000, which should come as no surprise as it is the same amplifier.
Does it still have that hauntingly mellow sound it had previously? I would have to say at this point, it lost that extra delightful touch. Not sure about that, but I have a few things to sort out. Apparently I have a speaker issue I had attributed to my Beomaster 2400’s ills. Something is rattling in the speaker as if the plastic fret cover or the woofer were loose. Not distortion, rattling.
Anyway, the conclusion is the repair was a success. All features work as they should. The BM changes tracks on the CD player, as well as all other features. Real soon I will open up the BM 4500 and find out what is loose and secure it, however in a stationary position whatever it is, is doing no harm. Ditto the speaker, something is loose and I gonna find it.
Thank you all for your interest in this thread.
I would strongly suggest you find out what is loose - it could short something and blow it up! You don't have much luck!
Peter
Peter: I would strongly suggest you find out what is loose - it could short something and blow it up! You don't have much luck!
Peter,
If it weren't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any!
Hi Jeff
I love that saying "If it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any", it made me smile.
I suspect that the object moving inside the BM4500 may be something which was dislodged during transit, be sure to check it out and secure it :)
Very happy to hear that your amp has arrived home in functioning condition. Which speakers did you connect to it? If its the S75's they are known for getting a loose connection tag on the woofer, the tag slides down the wire from the connection tag to the coil and just needs to be moved back into position and glued in place, the noise is the little tag vibrating as the woofer moves.
Will be most interested to hear your observations over the next few days with your rejuvenated amp and the outcome when you send the 2400 to be repaired.
Today is a big day for me, I purchased a non functioning BM2200 off ebay a few weeks ago to replace my BM1900. The BM2200 is renowned for having very good sound - better and a little more powerful than the BM1900/BM2400. This will power by S75's. So after my tech friend has spent a few days sourcing new caps and replacing components on the power supply board, tonight is the big night to turn it on and see if it blows up. Will keep you posted.
When do you send off the BM2400?
Andrew: Hi Jeff I love that saying "If it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any", it made me smile. I suspect that the object moving inside the BM4500 may be something which was dislodged during transit, be sure to check it out and secure it :) Very happy to hear that your amp has arrived home in functioning condition. Which speakers did you connect to it? If its the S75's they are known for getting a loose connection tag on the woofer, the tag slides down the wire from the connection tag to the coil and just needs to be moved back into position and glued in place, the noise is the little tag vibrating as the woofer moves. Will be most interested to hear your observations over the next few days with your rejuvenated amp and the outcome when you send the 2400 to be repaired. Today is a big day for me, I purchased a non functioning BM2200 off ebay a few weeks ago to replace my BM1900. The BM2200 is renowned for having very good sound - better and a little more powerful than the BM1900/BM2400. This will power by S75's. So after my tech friend has spent a few days sourcing new caps and replacing components on the power supply board, tonight is the big night to turn it on and see if it blows up. Will keep you posted. When do you send off the BM2400? Drew
Hi Drew,
Always, but always glad to give a smile. We all need that.
Of course the saying isn’t entirely true in my case, as I used my beleaguered Beomaster 2400 all this time waiting for the Beomaster 4500 to be repaired and it held together….. rather well I might add. And that WAS luck! Very good luck!
I will open up the Beomaster 4500 to see what has come loose for sure, but I was busy all day working on my Seeburg M100B jukebox, a REAL labour of love.
My Beomaster 4500 is currently connected to S 45.2 speakers and something is definitely vibrating in the left speaker. It is NOT distortion like with a broken speaker, just vibration.
Ah….. my assessment of the Beogram 4500. Well this amp sounds very, very good and I am most pleased with the repair. Oddly enough, in the last week or so my Beomaster 2400 had another “recovery” to the extent that it sounded almost as good as the BM 4500.
The comment “almost” means the subtle notes that the BM 4500 delivers were missing entirely. The fullness of the bass was also lost to what ails the BM 2400 and the refined highs were also missing.
Yet all in all that this little BM 2400 still works, let alone delivers is something of a miracle and a real tribute to the engineering behind it.
Best wishes on your new Beomaster 2200….. may it be HALF the amplifier that my Beomaster 2400 is and you have a winner!
I am sending the Beomaster 2400 out on Monday to avoid the weekend….. and this time UPS. I have had it, really HAD it with the USPS/Canada Post. True no brokerage fees and no duty, but two weeks to go from Atlanta to Victoria…. Ridiculous.
Let us know how it went with your new Beomaster 2200.
Anyone who has followed my posts over the years knows that I am fearless about asking foolish questions, or so it would seem.
With that underwhelming preamble in place I still have the temerity to ask do newly rebuilt amplifiers ever give off a mild burning electronic odor AND their sound improve as they settle in?
I ask because my Beomaster 4500 is doing the former without question and appears to be achieving the latter as well.
The “improvement” in sound could well be pure emotions run amuck. I mean it sounded perfectly fine when I first got it running, but subsequent plays “appear” to have it gaining depth of sound and complexity.
If it is all in my head, so be it, as it is a pleasant hallucination.
The burning question however is not open to debate…. there is an aroma…. NOTHING like my Beomaster 4400 which was an electronic barbeque for weeks. This is subtle, mild, and doesn’t linger more than a couple of minutes.
Any thoughts?
I've just go to hear the answer to this. The soap opera continues!!!
This thread alone is worth every penny of my BeoWorld subscription.
I'm glad that you didn't buy my 4400 all those months ago.............I would be in an asylum by now.
Regards Graham
joeyboygolf: I've just go to hear the answer to this. The soap opera continues!!! This thread alone is worth every penny of my BeoWorld subscription. I'm glad that you didn't buy my 4400 all those months ago.............I would be in an asylum by now.
Hey Graham, ya gotta give me this, I am never dull.
Now I am aware that your comment was not entirely a compliment, which is OK with me.
I am an educator by nature and have had some marvelous mentors who were more than willing to answer any and all questions. Sometimes you ask something that in hindsight is idiotic and you get told that that was a stupid question, BUT with tact because asking questions, stupid or otherwise, is how we learn. This applies to everyone….. it is universal.
Flat out it really “appears” to me that my rebuilt BM 4500 settled-in like we used to break in a new automobile. If this is not true or even possible and I imagined it, so what? But then I will have learned something new.
But then what if it correct, there is a break-in period. Well I don’t know that there is, but if so I’d like to learn this. So I asked a question that potentially opened me up to ridicule. I was a clumsy adolescent so being laughed at is not entirely new to me.
In regard to not buying your 4400, if I had it would have saved me a lot of aggravation, no doubt about that, but then I’d have a 4400 built for the UK market, whereas I would prefer one intended for North America.
Fresh components and solder do smell a bit when they warm up. Nothing like a bonfire made of car tires, though, and I've always had trouble quantifying your problem reports, so I have no idea if it is normal. If it doesn't actually create smoke, I suggest you spend more time listening and less time smelling the Beomaster.
The change of sound during the run-in, on the other hand... I've always been of the opinion that it all happens in the listener's ears.
--mika
tournedos: Fresh components and solder do smell a bit when they warm up. Nothing like a bonfire made of car tires, though, and I've always had trouble quantifying your problem reports, so I have no idea if it is normal. If it doesn't actually create smoke, I suggest you spend more time listening and less time smelling the Beomaster. The change of sound during the run-in, on the other hand... I've always been of the opinion that it all happens in the listener's ears.
Mika,
Now that was a sensible and concise answer. Thank you.
That I imagined an “improvement,” well a bit disappointing, but I learned something.
There are two schools of thought on this, some who believe caps have a break in period where they begin to sound better and others who believe that they just sound the way they do and their characteristics don't change in the initial period of use.
The smell could be glue or solder settling in after the rebuild, just keep an eye on the cooling fins on the back to ensure the amp isn't getting too hot and enjoy your new machine. I think the settling in is usually just our brains adjusting.
Glad to hear your 4500 is bringing you pleasure, now do tell us what was loose inside which gave the thumping noise when you moved it.
Andrew: Hi Jeff There are two schools of thought on this, some who believe caps have a break in period where they begin to sound better and others who believe that they just sound the way they do and their characteristics don't change in the initial period of use. The smell could be glue or solder settling in after the rebuild, just keep an eye on the cooling fins on the back to ensure the amp isn't getting too hot and enjoy your new machine. I think the settling in is usually just our brains adjusting. Glad to hear your 4500 is bringing you pleasure, now do tell us what was loose inside which gave the thumping noise when you moved it. Drew
Ya know somewhere in the back corner of my mind I remember hearing there being something about a break-in period, but I wasn’t sure….. so I asked.
And to be quite honest, the initial set-up was a mess, so my opinion of the sound quality could easily have been affected.
And even if it isn’t true, who cares? Personally I subscribe to the theory that these amps, all amps break-in to one degree or another.
So whether my judgment was coloured by my initial problems with the set-up, who knows? However that notwithstanding I am now completely delighted with my Beomaster 4500 and Benny’s workmanship.
I have been distracted with fooling around with my M100B Seeburg jukebox and I still need to pull the motor mechanism out to change the old rubber mounts, so I haven’t gotten around to opening up the BM 4500. I have been replacing aging parts and of my God does it ever look spiffy now!
I have never been in the BM 4500, so I like to take my time….. ANYTHING to avoid an adventure and unwanted drama like when I opened up my BeoCenter 9000 and the two glass panels flew off at the SAME time. Talk about a Maalox moment!
I also need to find out why my S 45.2 speaker is rattling. One thing at a time though.
Thanks for your interest which is most appreciated.
How is your 2200 going? I hope it didn’t blow up when you plugged it in. I am in the mood for a great success story, so I hope you have one for me.
As there is a bit of a difference in opinion vis-à-vis amplifier initial break-in I asked the technician who performed the rebuilding of my Beomaster 4500 and he said the following:
“Yes, components do have a break-in time especially capacitors have average of 40 hours break-in time to sound the best. However I did not change any capacitors in the signal path, but the output IC was replaced and that might have something to do with the sound experience you had.”
The above quote only reflects one person’s opinion, but this IS the person I trusted to repair my BM 4500 and the BM 2400 heads south to Georgia tomorrow.
I, for one, believe him as the difference between the first play and today is not insignificant.
For those who hold there is no break-in difference, hey that’s fine with me as we are all entitled to our views and opinions.
I just enjoyed another BM 4500 performance and I believe; now without question that there is considerably more depth of sound and the subtle complexities in the upper range are much more pronounced.
To all who recommended Benny to repair my amplifiers, I sincerely thank you! Benny is very polite, charges a reasonable amount, and is fast. Two thumbs up!
Piaf: To all who recommended Benny to repair my amplifiers, I sincerely thank you! Benny is very polite, charges a reasonable amount, and is fast. Two thumbs up!
You're welcome.
What is the rattle of your S45-2's? Is it the phase link cone resonating when a certain volume level is reached? That was the issue with mine that led me to discovering this site. The cure was replacing the capacitors. (Thank you, Martin!)
Rich: Piaf: To all who recommended Benny to repair my amplifiers, I sincerely thank you! Benny is very polite, charges a reasonable amount, and is fast. Two thumbs up! You're welcome. What is the rattle of your S45-2's? Is it the phase link cone resonating when a certain volume level is reached? That was the issue with mine that led me to discovering this site. The cure was replacing the capacitors. (Thank you, Martin!)
Ah Rich,
Please God not cap replacement again. I sure hope you are not right about that this time.
Tomorrow should be the day to find out what was banging inside the BM 4500 and secure it. Then take the S 45.2 apart and see if anything stands out.
What it sounds like more than anything is the plastic fret panel rattling, but I don’t believe this to be the case….. it just sounds like that.
Or had I failed to tighten all the screws on the woofer, also unlikely.
Tomorrow is also the big day to once again tackle my Seeburg M100B jukebox. I changed all the titles and made all new labels…. a big job, but fun. Added a few missing signs and what a difference it makes. It is starting to look REAL good.
Ever since I located the proper Seeburg Blackhead cartridge there has been no stopping me.
I have yet to pull the motor and change the rubber mounts….. that could take some time.
Plus I purchased 2 replacement side mirrors thinking I could get at them from inside. No such luck Chico. So I have to go in from the back.
That should be a snap but this is a 62 year old jukebox and I suspect that the back top panel is missing its 2 hinges because when I removed the amplifier which is attached to the lower door, the top piece slid down and was a royal pain to get back where it needed to be.
Now tomorrow I gotta open up the bottom and see what happens….. and this jukebox is built like a tank, those panels are HEAVY! HEAVY. Plus the back top panel is covered on the inside with Seeburg gold foil, if the panel slips too much or is not removed correctly all that foil is gonna rip apart and will have to be redone.
I really want the Seeburg done as I want to do a few more things, but not until I have dealt with what I already have. Then on to the BM 4500 and S 45.2 speaker.
Not to worry, I will let you guys know what I find out.
You never walk alone Jeff, a couple of weeks ago I was checking my Mexican made Wurlitzer Nostalgia, it had been standing without playing for a year, and testing it did not work, the failure probably in the record carousel, which has to come out downward and is heavy, I had it out before and know how to, but a heavy job. It will have to wait until I feel for it, will at the same time renovate the amplifier and change some switches. Good luck with the Seeburg.
Found the problem causing the THUMP in the Beomaster 4500. Looking at the amp from the front, on the right side there are two circuit boards, one on top of the other. The lower circuit board has a decent sized metal protector shield with a white piece of insulating paper which had come off and was free to slide the length of the circuit board. Once re-soldered, problem solved and fixed. No apparent damage was detected as a result of this metal piece being loose in transit.
I will get to the S 45.2 next.
Hi jeff
So I am very happy that your issue with your 4500 is as simple as a dislodged shield. Very good that it didn't contact anything to cause a short.
So has the next amp left for the workshop yet? Its like sending kids off to summer camp!
My BM2200 is doing very well, after replacing most of the components on the power module and caps in the power amps, cleaning all the sliding pots and the volume pot as well as a few other TLC items, it sprang to life for the first time in years and is producing lovely sound.
A pic for you which I took whilst polishing the steel and wood trims.
These B&O products are never easy.
Yea re-soldered the shield and all was good, but then discovered that the double faced adhesive that holds the six black plastic parts to the glass panel had bit the dust. I tried 3-M double faced tape, but that wasn’t good enough.
This made repositioning the glass panel a challenge, but it is all back and working.
Anyone have any ideas for a proper adhesive to hold this glass panel in place?
Ditto for the BeoCenter 9000.
Drew, your BM 2200 looks marvelous and it is great that you were able to bring it back to life. Good for you and if I may add, an excellent choice!
Back to the BM 4500, I posted my question about amplifier break-in on my other favorite electronics site as well as asking Benny, the tech who did the work. The consensus is there is a 40 hour break-in period for capacitors for them to sound their best. The same holds true to a lesser extent with the various other components.
You know when I posted the question it sounded a bit wacky to me, BUT the difference in sound quality was too much for me, or anyone for that matter to imagine. When I first posted the question the difference was not as pronounced and I might have been convinced to question my sanity. With further improvement I feel pretty safe in my initial view, in a word, vindicated.
I am inclined to agree with you on the break in period although my tech friend who operates the soldering iron doesn't believe in break in periods :)
The sound of the BM2200 seems to have balanced out a bit with time, its only done about 5 hours work but it was a bit thin initially and seems to be getting more dynamic. I need to leave it run for a few more hours but its already ahead of the BM1900 so I am happy.
I know 3M do make some stronger double faced tape, might be worth a trip to the hardware store.Drew
Andrew:I am inclined to agree with you on the break in period although my tech friend who operates the soldering iron doesn't believe in break in periods :)
I made the same observation with my BM 2400 (caps and lamps) my BM 4000 (caps, transistors and trimmers) and even more so with the BM 4400 (total amplifier renovation). So yes there are a burn/break in period. On the BM 4400 I checked it hourly and after 20 hours I think it was done, from 20 to 40 hours I could not hear any difference.
BTW Andrew: Nice job on the BM 2200