ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
What is interesting - and that is something we know nothing about yet - is how the interface/the new app will be.
This will be essential of how we can use this box'n'knob-thing.
The controller just lets us start the last used source, lets us skip to next, lets us leave/silence and lets us control the volume.
The app-interface will be the important thing!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
If the controller had included a screen in the format of a Beosound 5, albeit on a much smaller scale where you could also navigate your music i would get it. As it is, you can do it all with a phone in your pocket! Especially a Lumigon
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend: If the controller had included a screen in the format of a Beosound 5, albeit on a much smaller scale where you could also navigate your music i would get it. As it is, you can do it all with a phone in your pocket! Especially a Lumigon
Do you always run around with your mobile phone in your pocket? I don't and many other people probably do not either. And how much time does it take you to get your device out of your pocket, finding the correct app, opening it and to play a song?
Again, the point of Essence lies in its uttermost simplicity of starting music with just one touch.
B&O does not want to replace your mobile phone or tablet as these will stick around anyway. The Essence is made specifically for those, who love music playing in the background like a radio. This whole "setting up your music on your PC/mobile device"-thing is something you wouldn't do regularly (maybe once every week - tops). You just wanna wake up or come home and instantly set some atmosphere with music. Don't bother finding your phone and the right app (and even connect it to your home network first for AirPlay devices to be visible), just press play on the Essence and listen to some of your favorite music.
That is the point of it. If that doesn't appeal to you it is probably as simple as that the Essence is not for you. And calling the Essence a "modified Playmaker with a new remote" in a press release would be a fail from a marketing perspective, you have to admit that.
@PapaJustify
I do agree with you on the last sentence!
The Essence is made for simplicity - but using it does not have to be as simple as you describe it.
I would not use it that way (f I buy it?) - being more of an 'active' listener.
I would find a nice wall mount (not that ugly thing in the presentation) for a dedicated iPad/iPadMini and place that and the 'knob' side by side in a place where it is easy accessable.
I guess the new app interface will give much opportunity to choose what you want to listen to - and then I would just listwn to that for a while/for an album.
Turning on the last used source, skipping tracks/radiostations, turning off the volume when the phone rings and adjusting the volume by the 'knob' would be so easy.
So the workflow is the following... You start an app to choose the source, playlist... and then you do the casual things (volume, play/pause, skip) from the new remote.
A lot of people will be happy with this workflow I think, but this is clearly not a product for the B&O fans we are who are looking for an integrated product that works in conjunction with our existing setup.
P.
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
Chris Townsend:The problem for me is that when I get home, I select the station or music I want depending on how I feel. This I do through my phone/IPad or Beovision.
I have the feeling that you will be happy eventually through the course of the year.
Chris Townsend:Ok I'll shut up for now then.....except, would the remote work on its own ie could I use it with my 11-46 to select channels or music?
No, the remote isn't IR, it's RF.
This thing really is a standalone product for people who do not have other B&O. If you do have a BV in the room, chances are the speakers will be connected to you TV, not to this "Beosound". You can then access the same sources (DLNA, Spotify...) through the TV.
PhilLondon: A lot of people will be happy with this workflow I think, but this is clearly not a product for the B&O fans we are who are looking for an integrated product that works in conjunction with our existing setup.
@phil you seem to get it. This product isn't for the B&O legacy customer or aficionado. It's not really for the person who is looking to add to his system. This is for the outsiders and younger people to get into B&O. The biggest complaints from everyone on the PM was it's ugly and if you used the line-in with a TV you needed a remote as well as the PM exposed to control it correctly. B&O made it pretty and effectively took care of the need for having to have it seen and include two ways to control it.
To be clear folks, this will not replace the Beo 4 in anyway, or operate your current kit or BV's. It's simply has the same known operations as the Go button D-Pad on the Beo 4.
Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there
If you want to control you iTunes directly -
Ban boring signatures!
Well, thanks for that - Martin!
And definitely no Grrr's for the Essence from me - I think this has great potential for new costumers.
We/BeoWorlders and co will have to wait for the NL-music system to come.
But it will be interesting if we can 'tweak' the Essence-box using the PL-out with a A.AUX-in of an audiomaster to get it into the ML - just like with the Playmaker.
And I am very eager to see if the 'new app' can be used with the Playmaker as well.
Millemissen:And I am very eager to see if the 'new app' can be used with the Playmaker as well.
And maybe the BS5/BM
At first enjoyed the look and the usability seems good, BUT In my opinion B&O missed an option:The actual B&O user is left in the rain as it is completely useless for existing B&O systems except your active speakers. I think the engineers / inventors of the Essence didn't think until the end. It should have been the new and modern brother of the old IR-eyes from B&O.B&O should have integrated an ir-receiver (and in an ideal word an ir-transmitter, too) inside those controller eyes. In that case the controller could distribute the IR signal from a B&O remote via the white box to an ML and/or NL network connected B&O device (TV, Hifi etc.) as an additional bonus.
In its current state and released information it's a shame that I can NOT use it with my existing setup because the conroller looks really nice!And with existing wallmounted or - integrated controller solutions from Gira, Busch-Jaeger, RTI, Crestron etc. I guess there's some hard marketing required to convince those users to choose those lovely B&O controller.The existing wallmounted controllers from companies like the ones mentioned above do indeed have such functions (buttons for volume, next track, plau/pause, infrared sensors, infrared transmitters for ir-control around the house from everywhere in every room), displays to see what's going on etc. pp. I hope B&O will add some more functionality (fingers crossed that B&O does some intelligent use of the ir-connector on the white box) ;-)To the moderators: Perhaps we can merge the threads: http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/8865.aspx
What's "QPlay" by the way?
There are different Qplay's.
I guess this service is meant:
https://www.facebook.com/qplaymusic
Raeuber: But why is it a B&O product and not Beoplay? I can't see a strategy any more! Does it really make sense to develop a product not compatible with the existing stuff?
Because Play products are all in one solutions. No additional products required. The Essence needs a set of speakers so it's a core product. It's a different form of PM so it won't be able to connect to other B&O natively as did the PM. For B&O analog is dead, so I wouldn't expect more products that will support ML natively and without hoops to jump through. It's only going to get more difficult I suppose going forward. ML to NL is like MCL to ML was, you get some support but not everything.
Raeuber: Furthermore if Apple would add powerlink output to Airport Express or Apple TV you would have an Essential.
Furthermore if Apple would add powerlink output to Airport Express or Apple TV you would have an Essential.
More of a PM. The Essence is what further distances the claim that it's a Airport Express because it comes with a dedicated remote, line-in and DLNA aside from PL.
One of the interesting point about the Essence is that it contains embedded DLNA, Internet Radios and Spotify players. Unlike with AirPlay it does not require the app to be on all the time while listening to music.
BeoMegaMan wrote:
"For B&O analog is dead".
Mainly you are right, but - just like the Playmaker and the NL/ML-converter - the Essencial-box has an analog RCA-input.
So - you are still able to connect your old vinyl player or the analog out of a cd-player to your BeoLabs
@ Phil
What is: "embedded DLNA, Internet Radios and Spotify players."
Millemissen: Mainly you are right, but - just like the Playmaker and the NL/ML-converter - the Essencial-box has an analog RCA-input. So - you are still able to connect your old vinyl player or the analog out of a cd-player to your BeoLabs MM
Yes very much correct, I meant dead as a distribution platform or support for older product and the native connectivity to it etc.
Millemissen:What is: "embedded DLNA, Internet Radios and Spotify players."
I think it is beautiful although I might think that it is to small (need to see it in the flesh). I would love to integrate this in my system but unfortunately I am unable to as:
1. It does not have IR - not changing songs with my Beo5 is a shortcoming to me (that is done today through Apple universal docks)
2. Not having ML / NL - with this I would have replaced my Apple TV 1st gen which is only used for streaming audio. However, it is connected to a link system making it accessible in three rooms
I love it but sadly I have no use for it as I see it - as someone said, this should have been an upgrade to the link eyes.
Also, I think the base plate is really ugly, why could that not have been a circular one - now it seems totally out of place. I guess the rectangular one is easier to hold in one hand but I think it will mostly sit on a surface and not be carried around. B&O should have provided two options for this plate, one circular and one rectangular.
My B&O products: Beosound 9000, Beosound 2300, Beosound Century, Beolab 8000, Beolab 6000, Beolab 4000 x2, Beolab 3500, Beolab 2000, Beolab 10, Beolink Active x2, Beotime, Beo5 x2, Beo4, A9 keyring x2, LC2 dimmer x6 and growing....
Normann: Millemissen:And I am very eager to see if the 'new app' can be used with the Playmaker as well. And maybe the BS5/BM
+1 !
pf85:+1 !
PhilLondon: Millemissen: What is: "embedded DLNA, Internet Radios and Spotify players." It means "built in". When you use airplay you start an audio app and you send the audio output to the airplay receiver. But the app then needs to run in the background. The airplay receiver has no intelligence, it just plays what is sent through by the app. With these built in receivers, the app only serves as a remote, it tells the Essence what to play, and the a Essence does the job, and is them able to play, pause, skip through the playlist... The app can stop or out of wifi range, etc...
Millemissen: What is: "embedded DLNA, Internet Radios and Spotify players."
It means "built in".
When you use airplay you start an audio app and you send the audio output to the airplay receiver. But the app then needs to run in the background. The airplay receiver has no intelligence, it just plays what is sent through by the app.
With these built in receivers, the app only serves as a remote, it tells the Essence what to play, and the a Essence does the job, and is them able to play, pause, skip through the playlist... The app can stop or out of wifi range, etc...
Hi Phil,
I am well aware of what 'embedded' means - I just wanted you to explain how that should work!
The Essence has AirPlay - as you wrote: for that you need an app to run it - constantly. The Essence is only the receiver.
DLNA - if the Essence had 'DLNA embedded' it would need to have an interface - a display of some kind - to control it.
It would then be a renderer and a controlpoint (= a player) at the same time.
But in order to use DLNA with the Essence you need an external controlpoint - which is (talking smartphone/iDevice) an app
and a server somewhere on the network. From the (controlpoint) app you can 'push' the media, you want the Essence to play.
Means it would stop playing when the playlist is done - untill you 'push' again from the controlpoint. Again: just a passive receiver.
An internet radio station would certainly play on forever, even if it was stopped momentarily - in fact it is one long playlist.
Seems that it has some kind of memoryfunction for a radio-list built in - which is nice.
So the Essence merely does, what it as been asked to do - untill that job is done.
Leaves only Spotify to work without being pushed/AirPlay'ed from the tablet/iPad - because it is the 'connected' version.
But that has to be started in an app as well. Again: a receiver.
The way the Essence works is almost identical with way the Playmaker does - it won't function without a controlpoit!
A player with a built DLNA, Internet Radio and Spotify is something else. It needs an OP such as Linux mostly (on small devices), Windows, MasOS ... to work.
A BM/BS5 is such a player - and the Encore (without the Spotify function at least for now) is another one.
You could say that a V1/BV11-12 is that kind of player too.
Maybe (hopefylly) we will see a new audio-player of this kind from B&O - but that is another story.
The Essence depends on the app of the tablet-thingy.
What you can control with the 'knob' is just some very basic stuff. Not much more than with the controls on the Playmaker/Beo4 - but in a nicer way.
There is no such thing as an 'embedded DLNA, Internet Radio and Spotify player'.
Greetings Millemissen
@ millemissen
How does the word "condescending" translate into Danish?
Millemissen:There is no such thing as an 'embedded DLNA, Internet Radio and Spotify player'.
If the Essence didn't have a basic control point, it couldn't play, pause, skip songs. The Essence remote will indeed control the control point inside the Essence box. (I agree, it's not complete and has no screen, but it has a control point). The BeoMusic app will be the full control point.
Internet Radio player and Spotify connect are also integrated.
The specs are here: http://bogone.blob.core.windows.net/static/files/BeoSound_Essence_product_sheet.pdf
@symnes
http://da.bab.la/ordbog/engelsk-dansk/condescending
It was not my intension to be 'condescending'!
i just wanted to use the right words for the right things.
Not talking the Essence into more than it is.
PhilLondon: If the Essence didn't have a basic control point, it couldn't play, pause, skip songs. The Essence remote will indeed control the control point inside the Essence box. (I agree, it's not complete and has no screen, but it has a control point). The BeoMusic app will be the full control point.
Just my words:
"What you can control with the 'knob' is just some very basic stuff.
Not much more than with the controls on the Playmaker/Beo4 - but in a nicer way."
Millemissen: The Essence depends on the app of the tablet-thingy. What you can control with the 'knob' is just some very basic stuff. Not much more than with the controls on the Playmaker/Beo4 - but in a nicer way. There is no such thing as an 'embedded DLNA, Internet Radio and Spotify player'.
I disagree!
I'm assuming the Essence connects to your router and therefore your DLNA network, your network server and the internet. It will play whatever it's told to (similar to your BV11 etc). The "app on the Tablet-thingy" is just a window looking into what the Essence is up to and can be used to redirect it's attentions. The knob is, as you say, "very basic" or as I would say "superfluous fluff".
As described above then DLNA, Internet Radio and Spotify are built into the Essence - if it turns out that you have to stream Soptify etc. through your tablet then it's not embedded, if it plays without your tablets intervention then it's embedded!!
Re my comments about the "knob" - either make a proper B&O navigable remote/"MCP for the future" or don't and rely on third party hardware with an app (a very poor option IMO which leaves you at the mercy of the tablet manufacturers whims, especially when one of B&O's core competences used to be touch/tactile/control).............relying on an app with a contrived remote volume control is a bit of a miss for me.
Millemissen:"What you can control with the 'knob' is just some very basic stuff. Not much more than with the controls on the Playmaker/Beo4 - but in a nicer way."
Raeuber:I agree with you.
I agree with you too on the fact that it's similar to the PlayMaker, I never said it wasn't. PlayMaker to my knowledge couldn't skip tracks, not play Spotify nor Internet Radio, but again I agree and I realise that you'll need an app to initiate it.
If you pause it, you can restart any of these 3 services days later from the Remote without using the app. It'll restart the same DLNA playlist, Spotify Paylist or Internet radio.
And no Raueber, it won't wake up the app. As an app developer, I can tell you that apple doesn't allow that.
Looking at the press release, they say they've studied how people use digital music nowadays. Which probably means that they've realised a lot of people use almost exclusively digital music, and a lot as well (maybe not us here) use their iPhone/iPad/Android as their main source of music.
The Beosound 5 was the first attempt for a full digital player, and where it failed completely was the fact that you needed to us close-up operation to chose a music - this didn't make sense coming from THE company that first introduced remote for audio equipment and 2 way remotes and control panel.
What we are all waiting for is a sound system that's hidden, and that can be controlled with a remote with a screen that allows you to comfortably pick a source and a song in a playlist.
Beosound Essence is almost that. The 2 way remote being your iPad.
What they probably realised is that, although it's OK (as in a large number of people would accept it) to take your tablet, unlock it, open an app to choose a source and a playlist, it is too fastidious to do that for simple operation such as volume control, play, pause and skipping that boring song.
So they came up with the idea of the mini remote for just these operations...
I do think it makes sense for a lot of people I know who are not used to a fully integrated/unified system, because that's exactly what they do anyway when they play music. But it's certainly not for me and for most people on this forum.
What they should really do, is develop a tablet type remote based on Android (I am not an android fan, but it is open source) and customise it so that the only app that's on it is the Beomusic app. Add a few external physical buttons for volume control and play/pause/skip. Make it that the tablet wakes up when moved or touched (like the Beo5) and immediately displays the app without having to swipe/unlock, et voila!
It seems that it has a list of Internet Radiostations built in - but for accessing this list you would need the 'BeoMusic' app.
What you can do on the 'knob' is just skipping through the list you have created in the app.
Spotify is different - it is the 'connected' version, which let the last device accessed draw the Spotify playlist direct from the internet via your router regardless of your android-/iOS-device being on or not.
I suppose the chinese music sevice Qplayer works in a similar way (but that won't be interesting for most of us).
These things are - indeed - nice, but does not make the Essence a 'DLNA player'.
None the less - maybe this is all we (or most of us)need!!!
In the presentation at the CES it was only demonstrated with Spotify content.
Maybe because the 'essencial' BeoMusic-app has not been finished (or approved) yet.
Have a look at this presentation here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGflRi7JCFU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
----@Puncher - maybe it then becomes understandable, why the 'knob' is so basic.----
By the way - Tue talks of several Essence's in one household, making it a multiroom experience
Greetings MM
Millemissen:By the way - Tue talks of several Essence's in one household, making it a multiroom experience
Well, if you only want digital music, you can have a Essence in every room, except if for rooms where you have a recent Beovision. With this setup you can play music from your central DLNA server and from Spotify from either your TV or the Essence in every room. Multi-room, multi-source!
What it can't do is playing the same song in several rooms at the same time (party mode), and you can't get the sound of the TV in a room with an Essence. I am sure lot's of people can do with these restrictions.