ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
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Piaf: Jacques, I think you are going to make a Beogram 4000 sale. What kind of veneer do you have on your 4000? Mine is MUCH lighter> Jeff
Jacques, I think you are going to make a Beogram 4000 sale. What kind of veneer do you have on your 4000? Mine is MUCH lighter>
Jeff
These are the three 4000's I have owned (sold the first one a long while ago, keeping the other to till the end of time!) - veneer is more natural in the second (it's the earliest one I think, the SP15 measurement papers are dated September 1973.)
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Hi all,
a strange thing struck me looking at those beautiful photos... There's something different about these 4000 decks compared to my 4002 (apart from the keypad...).. I did some search and found this post:
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/35223.aspx
That's the difference! The ribs on the platter are thinner..
in my opinion, this change in the course of the production is a strange idea (in term of design that is)... Does anyone know if the 4002, with a AC motor share the same design? As anyone compared each others? Or does the late 4000 has the same platter..
I have a late 4002. The platter looks exactly the same as my 8000..
and now because of that find, i need this 4000... And i'll probably never get one...
Jeff probably possess the only deck that exists all across Canada!
Envy is a sin.. But i'm happy for all of you !
guillaume
hamacbleu: a strange thing struck me looking at those beautiful photos... There's something different about these 4000 decks compared to my 4002 (apart from the keypad...).. I did some search and found this post: http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/35223.aspx That's the difference! The ribs on the platter are thinner.. in my opinion, this change in the course of the production is a strange idea (in term of design that is)... Does anyone know if the 4002, with a AC motor share the same design? As anyone compared each others? Or does the late 4000 has the same platter..
I believe the change is between the AC/DC motor versions, as the entire platter is different.
I can't make a 100% certain assessment from pictures alone, but I'm pretty sure my AC motor 6000 has the thinner ribs:
http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/27003/209795.aspx#209795
...which I just measured to be 3.5 mm wide, give or take a couple of tenths.
(I have a DC motor 4004 as well, but couldn't find a single picture with no disc on the platter to compare.)
EDIT: Since I'm bored, I just enlarged the 4000/4002 pictures from Olly's thread and applied the ruler of enlightenment on the laptop screen. In the wide rib platter, the rib-to-space ratio at the inner end of the ribs is very close to 1:2. In the narrow rib platter, the ratio is about 1:3.14159265, just as in my 6000.
--mika
I'm obsessed about these kinds of details, thanks Mika!
Just measured the ribs on my 4002, I've got 4,5 mm or so... almost 5 mm, so they are thicker by almost 1 mm... Since there are 24 of those ribs, it's a 2,4 cm of thickness overall.. So it definitely makes a difference.. the 8000 about the same of the late 4002... except that I just found out that they are, in fact, different in design!
Beogram 4002 Type 5513:
Beogram 8000 Type 5613:
See the upper edge on the 8000...
Guillaume
hamacbleu: Hi all, a strange thing struck me looking at those beautiful photos... There's something different about these 4000 decks compared to my 4002 (apart from the keypad...).. I did some search and found this post: http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/35223.aspx That's the difference! The ribs on the platter are thinner.. in my opinion, this change in the course of the production is a strange idea (in term of design that is)... Does anyone know if the 4002, with a AC motor share the same design? As anyone compared each others? Or does the late 4000 has the same platter.. I have a late 4002. The platter looks exactly the same as my 8000.. and now because of that find, i need this 4000... And i'll probably never get one... Jeff probably possess the only deck that exists all across Canada! Envy is a sin.. But i'm happy for all of you ! guillaume
Hi Guillaume,
There are considerably more differences beyond the thinner ribs.
First the buttons that move the arms back and fourth are pressure sensitive, so the harder you press, the faster the arms go. This is accomplished less artistically on the 4002 /4004 with two buttons, one for slow and one for fast. Much less elegant, in my opinion.
The A/C motor is preferable as it allows for more precise speed control (or so I am told) and is more powerful for in addition to the difference in ribs the platter is MUCH heavier.
There is also the strobe, which is just cool all unto itself and the record position indicator, which is useless, but fun to look at. The strobe actually serves a purpose.
As far as I know I have the only working Beogram 4000 in Canada. I heard a rumor years ago that there was another back east, but I discount this rumor at this point.
I have also been told that there are a handful of Beogram 4000’s in the United States, but I have never been contacted by anyone who actually has one.
Of all my stereo gear the Beogram 4000 is far and away my favourite. It certainly is the best of my collection at creating nearly flawless sound reproduction and with a VERY old and high mileage MMC20CL cartridge.
My Beogram 8002 gives the 4000 a run for its money, but winning Silver is not the same as winning the Gold.
Some have argued that the heavy platter gives the BG 4000 its advantage. Me, I don’t know why the 4000 plays records better than the 4002, 4004, 800, or 8002…. it just does.
I found my Beogram 4000 on eBay with a seller who insisted on pick-up only. I communicated with him and we struck up a friendship. The seller then pulled the 4000 from eBay but would not sell the 4000 to me without talking to me on the phone….. for over an hour.
The seller was a very nice man but he didn’t have the slightest idea how to pack the 4000 and it arrived shattered, which broken pieces scattered everywhere.
The bearing that held the arm drive shaft was broken in half and I found the drive belt UNDER the motherboard.
The record position arm was broken and when I opened the box I found both arms resting on the aluminum panels.
It took the kindness and generosity of a BeoWorld member who requested no public acknowledgement but provided all the broken parts AND a replacement dust cover gratis.
Once back up and running it took Martin to discover I had the wrong fuse for North America as my deck was delivered in Germany with 240v.
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
tournedos: EDIT: Since I'm bored, I just enlarged the 4000/4002 pictures from Olly's thread and applied the ruler of enlightenment on the laptop screen. In the wide rib platter, the rib-to-space ratio at the inner end of the ribs is very close to 1:2. In the narrow rib platter, the ratio is about 1:3.14159265, just as in my 6000.
1:pi is elegant indeed.. But 1:2 is practical
1:1.618 would perhaps have been elegant too, but thick.. Who knows!
EDIT... Thanks Jeff for these details... Despite all these inner differences, I would probably not see the difference in sound... I'm no audiophile at all! But I must admit that the engineering behind the 4000 is really astonishing. I'll probably/hope to be one day the one in the east that have the 2nd copy... I'll let you know!
hamacbleu:1:pi is elegant indeed.. But 1:2 is practical 1:1.618 would perhaps have been elegant too, but thick.. Who knows!
To tell the truth, I believe my 6000 is close to 1:3 - rib ~3.5mm, spacing 10.something. Perhaps it is in fact something between the 4000 and the DC versions of the later models. In any case, this could be a way for the trained eye to tell between the AC and DC motor versions at a glance!
....let's spread the rumor that Jensen really thought about that pi ratio... It's at the moma and in all those taschen books about design after all!