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Dolby Atmos

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This post has 28 Replies | 2 Followers

thorne
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thorne Posted: Mon, Jun 8 2020 11:18 PM

I have Apple TV 4K, set up,with Beovision Eclipse. Does my TV support Dolby Atmos?

Millemissen
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No, it does not!

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

thorne
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thorne replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 4:41 PM

Thanks. That’s very clear!   I now know why Dolby Atmos isn’t coming up as an option on Apple TV!

Millemissen
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Oh, then I’ll have to ask you, what you mean by that?

Many movies played through the apps on the ATV certainly have Atmos.

Atmos is an added information layer in a regular Dolby Plus stream and since your tv can not decode these informations, you can ‘only’ listen to the basic Dolby Plus track.
Being able to choose Atmos would make no difference.........the ATV and the Eclipse know what to do.

MM 

There is a tv - and there is a BV

thorne
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thorne replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 6:30 PM

Hi

 

What I mean is that, according to Apple, Dolby Atmos only appears as an option in ATV settings if the TV connected to it supports it

Millemissen
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OK - never saw that setting.

My BV does not support Atmos either, nor have I the needed speakers setup.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 7:27 PM
thorne:

Hi

What I mean is that, according to Apple, Dolby Atmos only appears as an option in ATV settings if the TV connected to it supports it

That is correct.

Either the TV or if you have the ATV connected to an Atmos capable receiver. Or connected to Beosound Stage.

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

Mikipidia
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There is ,atleast with the harmony, a way around it you can try. Attach the hdmi of the aptv to the panel of the eclipse(so not to the soundcenter). That is what i do with my harmony and to my setup it makes a big difference.

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/

Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 9:11 PM

I was thinking about this earlier today.

Connecting this way as you have done - the LG panel can pass Atmos down through its HDMI eARC port I guess, but the Harmony isn't equipped with an Atmos surround processing engine (unless I've missed something). So with (in your case) your many (!!) speakers that you Harmony sees, it is surely still not producing an Atmos recreation?! (i.e object based audio rather than channel based)

The above is a question more than its a statement by the way!

Interesting though that you get what sounds like a better sound quality going through the panel and out the eARC (again, not doubting you!)

 

 

Mikipidia:
There is ,atleast with the harmony, a way around it you can try. Attach the hdmi of the aptv to the panel of the eclipse(so not to the soundcenter). That is what i do with my harmony and to my setup it makes a big difference.

 

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 9:22 PM
Sandyb:

I was thinking about this earlier today.

Connecting this way as you have done - the LG panel can pass Atmos down through its HDMI eARC port I guess, but the Harmony isn't equipped with an Atmos surround processing engine (unless I've missed something). So with (in your case) your many (!!) speakers that you Harmony sees, it is surely still not producing an Atmos recreation?! (i.e object based audio rather than channel based)

The above is a question more than its a statement by the way!

Interesting though that you get what sounds like a better sound quality going through the panel and out the eARC (again, not doubting you!)

Correct.

Harmony sound processor does not decode Atmos.

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

Millemissen
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Interesting!

There should be no difference.......given that the sound settings (Speaker Group/Sound Mode etc) are exactly the same in both cases.

Still wondering why - but don’t doubt you either.....you are the one listening.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Mikipidia
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Correct, BUT!

So the atmos is a higher bitrate than the 5.1 audio on netflix(fairly sure as even in 2 channel it sounds better). When attached to the soundcenter the aptv sees it’s not atmos complian and only will do 5.1. Where as an eclipse and harmony are 7.1 processors. So the benefit for me of doing it my way is that when the soundcenter gets atmos in it converts it to dolby digital plus which is 7.1. The benefit of this is that in my case all channels actually have their individual signals and it really shows. I confirmed this with the app and sound info. With atmos in it always says downmixing and with 5.1 it always says upmixing. The rear channels is where i notice it most as the surrounds and rears really act individually from each other but with 5.1 they sort of act in unison. But i also notice in the front more separation with atmos besides what seems like clearer sound.

If people like to i’ll go over it on the podcast once more Big Smile

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/

Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

antwilas
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antwilas replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 10:07 PM

Unfortunately I does not.....

MaxH
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MaxH replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 9:38 AM

 

I agree with, MIki.

Compare:

1) Apple content or Netflix, via Apple TV, plugged direct into the HDMI port watching  'Atmos' films

2) Netlix via the soundcentre (which does not even show as Atmos content)

It may not be 'true' Atmos through the Apple TV but it does sound better in surround and rear channels 

 

kawo
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kawo replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 4:39 PM

Intersting topic! So would it make more sense to connect beside the AppleTV a BluRay Player also to the LG panel instead of the sound center of my Harmony? I just recently got a BluRay with Atmos on it, maybe I give it a try.

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 7:59 PM
I am specifically talking streaming here with the aptv and neflix etc. Netflix does either atmos or 5.1 and there is no middleground.

So with a dvd player i would suspect it highly depends on the audio tracks available on said drive. Meaning if there is an atmos track, a 7.1 track and a 5.1 track then connecting it to the panel makes little sense as you can just go for the 7.1 track(and bitrates on dvd’s tend to be even higher than the streaming ones). But this will mostlikely vary per dvd, so i don’t have a complete answer on that.

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/

Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 9:03 PM

I've encountered the following behavior with Apple TV and my BeoSystem 4. When I disable Dolby Atmos on the Apple TV and set the sound to "auto":

-Netflix does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Disney+ does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Amazon Prime Video does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Movies from iTunes DO show Atmos as being available. I receive a 7.1 PCM. Therefore, it seems that only iTunes movies get converted to 7.1 PCM from Dolby Atmos.

 

If I enable Atmos on the Apple TV, All apps show Atmos as available. However, I receive no sound. The "sound Info" on the BeoSystem 4 shows "PCM 0.0."

 

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 12:10 AM

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/

Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

kawo
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kawo replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 3:35 AM

So hooked up the Sony Blu Ray Player directly to the LG, with an Atmos source same here, 7.1 input. Plus could control basic functions of the player with the Beoremote One without the PUC cable.

Could not check to sound difference yet, but task for today

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 9:40 AM

kawo:

So hooked up the Sony Blu Ray Player directly to the LG, with an Atmos source same here, 7.1 input. Plus could control basic functions of the player with the Beoremote One without the PUC cable.

Could not check to sound difference yet, but task for today

The blu-ray player will always convert Atmos to 7.1 PCM. It's the Apple TV that can have varying outputs depending on the streaming service used. There is no option to force a PCM conversion to 7.1 for all Atmos material on the Apple TV. B&O created a PUC for me for the Sony UBP-X700 UHD player that provides full control.

Millemissen
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Atmos does not matter in these cases!

It is the base layer, that is important.

The LG seems to recognize the 7.1 in the stream and send that on to the SoundCenter as PCM 7.1.

The SoundCenter does only recognize the 5.1, when the ATV is connected there - why that is so is the big mystery (a matter of the ATV or a matter of the SoundCenter??).

When the SoundCenter gets the 7.1 stream it passes it on to a 7.1 speakers layout as is, given that is set up according to the 7.1 recommendations (FL, C, FR, SL, SR, RL, RR and Sub).

When the SoundCenter get the 5.1 stream, it passes that on to a 7.1 speakers layout by upmixing from 5.1 to 7.1 (TrueImage processing).

That can be heard as a different sound - probably conceived as better with the native 7.1 version.

The Atmos informations however, cannot be utilized/heard without involving an Atmos/Atmos MAT decoder.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Geoff Martin
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beojeff:

I've encountered the following behavior with Apple TV and my BeoSystem 4. When I disable Dolby Atmos on the Apple TV and set the sound to "auto":

-Netflix does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Disney+ does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Amazon Prime Video does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Movies from iTunes DO show Atmos as being available. I receive a 7.1 PCM. Therefore, it seems that only iTunes movies get converted to 7.1 PCM from Dolby Atmos.

If I enable Atmos on the Apple TV, All apps show Atmos as available. However, I receive no sound. The "sound Info" on the BeoSystem 4 shows "PCM 0.0."

Hi,

When you say ".. as being available" do you mean that the app is telling you before you choose and play a movie, that an Atmos version is available? Or do you mean that, after you've chosen and are playing a movie, the on-screen display is telling you that you're listening to an Atmos signal?

The BS4 does not support Atmos. The Apple TV 4k should know this from the EDID. However, if you look on this page:

 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

you'll see the following:

Apple TV 4K and Apple TV HD automatically play sound in the highest quality that’s supported by your home entertainment system setup and available with content that you watch.

If your home entertainment system doesn't support the audio format that Apple TV automatically selects, you can manually change the audio format

So, it seems to me that the message from Apple is that the Apple TV automatically selects the right bitstream - except when it doesn't... I suspect that you're falling into the second half of this statement...

I'm not sure that this helps - but it might be the best I can do...

cheers
-geoff 

Geoff Martin
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Hi again,

It might help to be a little explicit here...

"Dolby Atmos" appears to mean different things to different people. It might help to break apart what Atmos is - in order to make sure that we're all talking about the same thing...

Dolby Atmos encompasses the following things:

  • A loudspeaker configuration recommendation that can include height channels as well as the traditional ear-level configuration. There is a good summary of a number of the possible configurations on this page: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-setup-guides/index.html
  • An encoding system that allows a re-recording engineer (the movie version of a "mixing engineer" in the music industry) to allocate a given sound to a given loudspeaker or location between loudspeakers in the configurations mentioned in the previous point. Some of those audio channels are to be sent directly to a loudspeaker. Some are "rendered" at playback to appear to be at a given location around the listener, using the configuration you have.
  • In the case where it is not possible to put loudspeakers at some locations (e.g. above the listening position), Atmos has two additional options for emulating / simulating sound that would have come from those loudspeakers. 
    • One is virtualisation - where the audio signal is processed and played out of existing loudspeakers to simulate the spatial perception of another loudspeaker. 
    • The other uses directional loudspeakers that are intended to use reflective surfaces (e.g. "upwards-firing" to bounce a beam of sound off the ceiling). Both of these two options have advantages and disadvantages.
  • An upmixer that can produce an output signal that has more output channels than input channels. (e.g. 2.0 in, 5.x.2 out)
  • Some combination of these things.

So, if we're going to have a conversation about "Atmos" - we need to be explicit regarding which of these aspects are being discussed...

Cheers
-geoff

 

thorne
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thorne replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 10:43 PM

Hi all

 

As the OP, I must say that was in essence a simple yes or no question to my mind, has evolved into a fascinating discussion. Great stuff!  Thanks a lot

andybandy
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andybandy replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 11:02 PM

And if you want to learn more about what your TV can do with your speakers. 

Read this article from mr tonmeister him self:) 

http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2013/12/06/bo-tech-trueimage-upmixing/

Its not Atmos, but at least its not very far from the same :D is the B&O way :) 

beojeff
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beojeff replied on Fri, Jun 12 2020 12:26 AM

Geoff:

I'm referring to the setting on the Apple TV. If you tell the Apple TV that your sound system can't support Dolby Atmos, you will not even see Atmos as available on most streaming apps. In such cases, we're limited to 5.1 PCM conversion and not 7.1 PCM conversion. However, even when you tell the Apple TV in its settings that you can't support Dolby Atmos, iTunes movies with Dolby Atmos WILL still show Atmos as available and the Apple TV will convert that to 7.1 PCM. The point being that it's a shame that the other streaming apps won't even allow Dolby Atmos conversion to PCM 7.1. Only the iTunes movies will do that.

Dan Gregersen
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It seems there's an issue with the way ATMOS is implemented by app developers on the Apple TV platform and possibly other platforms.

To me, it would be perfect if Eclipse/Harmony would accept an ATMOS track. I'm not necessarily asking for decoding of full ATMOS, if the signal could be stripped down to 7.1 just as the LG panel does, it would be perfect.

Would changing EDID to include ATMOS possibly work? - would Eclipse/Harmony be able to strip 7.1 out of an ATMOS signal if fed?

flatwhite
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flatwhite replied on Sat, Jun 20 2020 6:29 PM

Can you still use PUC control on the apple tv when hooking up this way?

Dan Gregersen
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As far as I know, PUC only works when the source is connected to the soundcenter. However you can still use Beoremote One when connecting to the LG panel via HDMI CEC.

thorne
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thorne Posted: Mon, Jun 8 2020 11:18 PM

I have Apple TV 4K, set up,with Beovision Eclipse. Does my TV support Dolby Atmos?

Millemissen
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No, it does not!

MM

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thorne
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thorne replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 4:41 PM

Thanks. That’s very clear!   I now know why Dolby Atmos isn’t coming up as an option on Apple TV!

Millemissen
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Oh, then I’ll have to ask you, what you mean by that?

Many movies played through the apps on the ATV certainly have Atmos.

Atmos is an added information layer in a regular Dolby Plus stream and since your tv can not decode these informations, you can ‘only’ listen to the basic Dolby Plus track.
Being able to choose Atmos would make no difference.........the ATV and the Eclipse know what to do.

MM 

There is a tv - and there is a BV

thorne
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thorne replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 6:30 PM

Hi

 

What I mean is that, according to Apple, Dolby Atmos only appears as an option in ATV settings if the TV connected to it supports it

Millemissen
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OK - never saw that setting.

My BV does not support Atmos either, nor have I the needed speakers setup.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 7:27 PM
thorne:

Hi

What I mean is that, according to Apple, Dolby Atmos only appears as an option in ATV settings if the TV connected to it supports it

That is correct.

Either the TV or if you have the ATV connected to an Atmos capable receiver. Or connected to Beosound Stage.

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

Mikipidia
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There is ,atleast with the harmony, a way around it you can try. Attach the hdmi of the aptv to the panel of the eclipse(so not to the soundcenter). That is what i do with my harmony and to my setup it makes a big difference.

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/

Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

Sandyb
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Sandyb replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 9:11 PM

I was thinking about this earlier today.

Connecting this way as you have done - the LG panel can pass Atmos down through its HDMI eARC port I guess, but the Harmony isn't equipped with an Atmos surround processing engine (unless I've missed something). So with (in your case) your many (!!) speakers that you Harmony sees, it is surely still not producing an Atmos recreation?! (i.e object based audio rather than channel based)

The above is a question more than its a statement by the way!

Interesting though that you get what sounds like a better sound quality going through the panel and out the eARC (again, not doubting you!)

 

 

Mikipidia:
There is ,atleast with the harmony, a way around it you can try. Attach the hdmi of the aptv to the panel of the eclipse(so not to the soundcenter). That is what i do with my harmony and to my setup it makes a big difference.

 

Hiort
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Hiort replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 9:22 PM
Sandyb:

I was thinking about this earlier today.

Connecting this way as you have done - the LG panel can pass Atmos down through its HDMI eARC port I guess, but the Harmony isn't equipped with an Atmos surround processing engine (unless I've missed something). So with (in your case) your many (!!) speakers that you Harmony sees, it is surely still not producing an Atmos recreation?! (i.e object based audio rather than channel based)

The above is a question more than its a statement by the way!

Interesting though that you get what sounds like a better sound quality going through the panel and out the eARC (again, not doubting you!)

Correct.

Harmony sound processor does not decode Atmos.

 

 

 

 

Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2  Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote  Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset

Millemissen
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Interesting!

There should be no difference.......given that the sound settings (Speaker Group/Sound Mode etc) are exactly the same in both cases.

Still wondering why - but don’t doubt you either.....you are the one listening.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV

Mikipidia
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Correct, BUT!

So the atmos is a higher bitrate than the 5.1 audio on netflix(fairly sure as even in 2 channel it sounds better). When attached to the soundcenter the aptv sees it’s not atmos complian and only will do 5.1. Where as an eclipse and harmony are 7.1 processors. So the benefit for me of doing it my way is that when the soundcenter gets atmos in it converts it to dolby digital plus which is 7.1. The benefit of this is that in my case all channels actually have their individual signals and it really shows. I confirmed this with the app and sound info. With atmos in it always says downmixing and with 5.1 it always says upmixing. The rear channels is where i notice it most as the surrounds and rears really act individually from each other but with 5.1 they sort of act in unison. But i also notice in the front more separation with atmos besides what seems like clearer sound.

If people like to i’ll go over it on the podcast once more Big Smile

New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0

Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia

Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4

Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/

Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.

antwilas
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antwilas replied on Tue, Jun 9 2020 10:07 PM

Unfortunately I does not.....

MaxH
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MaxH replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 9:38 AM

 

I agree with, MIki.

Compare:

1) Apple content or Netflix, via Apple TV, plugged direct into the HDMI port watching  'Atmos' films

2) Netlix via the soundcentre (which does not even show as Atmos content)

It may not be 'true' Atmos through the Apple TV but it does sound better in surround and rear channels 

 

kawo
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kawo replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 4:39 PM

Intersting topic! So would it make more sense to connect beside the AppleTV a BluRay Player also to the LG panel instead of the sound center of my Harmony? I just recently got a BluRay with Atmos on it, maybe I give it a try.

Mikipidia
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Mikipidia replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 7:59 PM
I am specifically talking streaming here with the aptv and neflix etc. Netflix does either atmos or 5.1 and there is no middleground.

So with a dvd player i would suspect it highly depends on the audio tracks available on said drive. Meaning if there is an atmos track, a 7.1 track and a 5.1 track then connecting it to the panel makes little sense as you can just go for the 7.1 track(and bitrates on dvd’s tend to be even higher than the streaming ones). But this will mostlikely vary per dvd, so i don’t have a complete answer on that.

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beojeff replied on Wed, Jun 10 2020 9:03 PM

I've encountered the following behavior with Apple TV and my BeoSystem 4. When I disable Dolby Atmos on the Apple TV and set the sound to "auto":

-Netflix does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Disney+ does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Amazon Prime Video does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Movies from iTunes DO show Atmos as being available. I receive a 7.1 PCM. Therefore, it seems that only iTunes movies get converted to 7.1 PCM from Dolby Atmos.

 

If I enable Atmos on the Apple TV, All apps show Atmos as available. However, I receive no sound. The "sound Info" on the BeoSystem 4 shows "PCM 0.0."

 

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Mikipidia replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 12:10 AM

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kawo replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 3:35 AM

So hooked up the Sony Blu Ray Player directly to the LG, with an Atmos source same here, 7.1 input. Plus could control basic functions of the player with the Beoremote One without the PUC cable.

Could not check to sound difference yet, but task for today

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beojeff replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 9:40 AM

kawo:

So hooked up the Sony Blu Ray Player directly to the LG, with an Atmos source same here, 7.1 input. Plus could control basic functions of the player with the Beoremote One without the PUC cable.

Could not check to sound difference yet, but task for today

The blu-ray player will always convert Atmos to 7.1 PCM. It's the Apple TV that can have varying outputs depending on the streaming service used. There is no option to force a PCM conversion to 7.1 for all Atmos material on the Apple TV. B&O created a PUC for me for the Sony UBP-X700 UHD player that provides full control.

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Atmos does not matter in these cases!

It is the base layer, that is important.

The LG seems to recognize the 7.1 in the stream and send that on to the SoundCenter as PCM 7.1.

The SoundCenter does only recognize the 5.1, when the ATV is connected there - why that is so is the big mystery (a matter of the ATV or a matter of the SoundCenter??).

When the SoundCenter gets the 7.1 stream it passes it on to a 7.1 speakers layout as is, given that is set up according to the 7.1 recommendations (FL, C, FR, SL, SR, RL, RR and Sub).

When the SoundCenter get the 5.1 stream, it passes that on to a 7.1 speakers layout by upmixing from 5.1 to 7.1 (TrueImage processing).

That can be heard as a different sound - probably conceived as better with the native 7.1 version.

The Atmos informations however, cannot be utilized/heard without involving an Atmos/Atmos MAT decoder.

MM

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Geoff Martin
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beojeff:

I've encountered the following behavior with Apple TV and my BeoSystem 4. When I disable Dolby Atmos on the Apple TV and set the sound to "auto":

-Netflix does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Disney+ does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Amazon Prime Video does not show Atmos as being available. I receive a 5.1 PCM.

-Movies from iTunes DO show Atmos as being available. I receive a 7.1 PCM. Therefore, it seems that only iTunes movies get converted to 7.1 PCM from Dolby Atmos.

If I enable Atmos on the Apple TV, All apps show Atmos as available. However, I receive no sound. The "sound Info" on the BeoSystem 4 shows "PCM 0.0."

Hi,

When you say ".. as being available" do you mean that the app is telling you before you choose and play a movie, that an Atmos version is available? Or do you mean that, after you've chosen and are playing a movie, the on-screen display is telling you that you're listening to an Atmos signal?

The BS4 does not support Atmos. The Apple TV 4k should know this from the EDID. However, if you look on this page:

 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204069

you'll see the following:

Apple TV 4K and Apple TV HD automatically play sound in the highest quality that’s supported by your home entertainment system setup and available with content that you watch.

If your home entertainment system doesn't support the audio format that Apple TV automatically selects, you can manually change the audio format

So, it seems to me that the message from Apple is that the Apple TV automatically selects the right bitstream - except when it doesn't... I suspect that you're falling into the second half of this statement...

I'm not sure that this helps - but it might be the best I can do...

cheers
-geoff 

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Hi again,

It might help to be a little explicit here...

"Dolby Atmos" appears to mean different things to different people. It might help to break apart what Atmos is - in order to make sure that we're all talking about the same thing...

Dolby Atmos encompasses the following things:

  • A loudspeaker configuration recommendation that can include height channels as well as the traditional ear-level configuration. There is a good summary of a number of the possible configurations on this page: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/speaker-setup-guides/index.html
  • An encoding system that allows a re-recording engineer (the movie version of a "mixing engineer" in the music industry) to allocate a given sound to a given loudspeaker or location between loudspeakers in the configurations mentioned in the previous point. Some of those audio channels are to be sent directly to a loudspeaker. Some are "rendered" at playback to appear to be at a given location around the listener, using the configuration you have.
  • In the case where it is not possible to put loudspeakers at some locations (e.g. above the listening position), Atmos has two additional options for emulating / simulating sound that would have come from those loudspeakers. 
    • One is virtualisation - where the audio signal is processed and played out of existing loudspeakers to simulate the spatial perception of another loudspeaker. 
    • The other uses directional loudspeakers that are intended to use reflective surfaces (e.g. "upwards-firing" to bounce a beam of sound off the ceiling). Both of these two options have advantages and disadvantages.
  • An upmixer that can produce an output signal that has more output channels than input channels. (e.g. 2.0 in, 5.x.2 out)
  • Some combination of these things.

So, if we're going to have a conversation about "Atmos" - we need to be explicit regarding which of these aspects are being discussed...

Cheers
-geoff

 

thorne
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thorne replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 10:43 PM

Hi all

 

As the OP, I must say that was in essence a simple yes or no question to my mind, has evolved into a fascinating discussion. Great stuff!  Thanks a lot

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andybandy replied on Thu, Jun 11 2020 11:02 PM

And if you want to learn more about what your TV can do with your speakers. 

Read this article from mr tonmeister him self:) 

http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2013/12/06/bo-tech-trueimage-upmixing/

Its not Atmos, but at least its not very far from the same :D is the B&O way :) 

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beojeff replied on Fri, Jun 12 2020 12:26 AM

Geoff:

I'm referring to the setting on the Apple TV. If you tell the Apple TV that your sound system can't support Dolby Atmos, you will not even see Atmos as available on most streaming apps. In such cases, we're limited to 5.1 PCM conversion and not 7.1 PCM conversion. However, even when you tell the Apple TV in its settings that you can't support Dolby Atmos, iTunes movies with Dolby Atmos WILL still show Atmos as available and the Apple TV will convert that to 7.1 PCM. The point being that it's a shame that the other streaming apps won't even allow Dolby Atmos conversion to PCM 7.1. Only the iTunes movies will do that.

Dan Gregersen
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It seems there's an issue with the way ATMOS is implemented by app developers on the Apple TV platform and possibly other platforms.

To me, it would be perfect if Eclipse/Harmony would accept an ATMOS track. I'm not necessarily asking for decoding of full ATMOS, if the signal could be stripped down to 7.1 just as the LG panel does, it would be perfect.

Would changing EDID to include ATMOS possibly work? - would Eclipse/Harmony be able to strip 7.1 out of an ATMOS signal if fed?

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flatwhite replied on Sat, Jun 20 2020 6:29 PM

Can you still use PUC control on the apple tv when hooking up this way?

Dan Gregersen
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As far as I know, PUC only works when the source is connected to the soundcenter. However you can still use Beoremote One when connecting to the LG panel via HDMI CEC.

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